PAF F-16 | Discussions

[maxpane]

Unsure, just very strange Bahrain paid $75 million and Jordan $300 million for same plane! Not matter how different the weapons/traning/spares packages are for both deals, that is a massive difference.

yes its just change for every nation

 

[Ak01]

The whole C-8/D-3 saga could just be a way of PAF and Pak Gov diversifying at an opportune time as opposed to getting anything better.

By 'opportune' I mean this has come around the time of trade and tariff negotiation, and the Trump admin has regularly pushed greater US weapon sales in these negotiations. For, Pakistan's part this could have meant when US brought up the issue, our very capable leadership would have said Huzoor, salute, we have always been ready to buy. So Pak Gov manages its exposure to US wrath in the Geo Political sphere, @Oscar has already pointed out the number of visits Pakistani officials were undertaking to China, so this could be closely coordinated.

The PAF diversifies since now IAF have to plan for another attack vector. I do not think Amraam C-8 beats the Pl-15, it is silly to think a single pulse rocket motor could have better kinematics than a dual pulse. Even the info on Amraam-D being truely dual pulse is dubious. Some cite information from the known makers of Amraam motors. Some reconcile this ambiguity by stating the D varient uses a booster, this aligns with other informaiton about how carrying the D varient as opposed to the C8 variant requires modification to carrier platform software. The C8 is said to be replacement in place of earlier C variants.

Finally, people on here and else where have said that the only difference between C-8 and D is software, two things to recognise here. One, if D is a C-8 with a booster and additional changes to the software of launching platform (together with the expected difference in the missile software), then yes it could be sold as only a difference in software since you can conveniently ignore the booster as it does not form an integral part of the missile. Second, a difference in software alone could stand for a lot. The amraam D entered IOC in 2006, the latest announced tests were from 2024, based around 'flying the missile better', optimising flight trajectory and engagement logic could alone account for much of the 'added range'.

they literally use the same motor, same avionics and underwent the same F3R refresh...

Lets see. C8/D notification was on Sep 30th, US Government shut down means it has not been updated since. Often weapons procurements come several at the same time.

Very likely we may see more Commercial contracts and DSCA notifications very soon.

Below was cost of 10 F-16Vs for Peru but remember Perus has no training, experiance on F-16 and no weapons and facilities.

https://www.dsca.mil/Press-Media/Major-Arms-Sales/Article-Display/Article/4304541/peru-f-16-aircraft

Cost for V is around $75 million. More accurate coat would be we get our planes same price at Bahrain, who already have operated F-16 for long time like PAF. They got 16 brand new Vs for $1.1 Billion.

F-16 Block 70 jets embark on Bahrain-bound ferry flight - Airforce Technology

Lockheed Martin has commenced the transportation of the initial set of F-16 Block 70 aircraft from Greenville, South Carolina, to Bahrain.

www.airforce-technology.com

However Jordan paid $4.2 Billion for just 12 F-16Vs, making them out to be $350 million a piece!!!!!

Jordan Signs for New-generation F-16 Fighters | AIN

The Middle East nation's air force has operated Fighting Falcon fighters for many years, and is now refreshing the fleet with AESA-equipped aircraft.

www.ainonline.com

dont look too much into DSCA- These are the MAX the deals can cost, the ceiling of equipment, costs and procurement. Usually far below

 

[Yasser76]

yes its just change for every nation

Just unsure about the big diffence, $300 million is almost price of F-22!!!

 

[maxpane]

Just unsure about the big diffence, $300 million is almost price of F-22!!!

yeah its just confusing .

 

[FuturePAF]

Getting C8s and V F-16s will be good in the fact we are giving enemies two combos to worry about (J-10/PL-15 and F-16V/C8)

If Saudis are paying all the better issue now is PAF is effectively creating a two tier air defence system.

Erieye/F-16 and KJ-5000/J-10/J35

Obviously our entire network is getting geared up for a J-10/JF-17/J-35 set up in terms of it's entire ecosystem and how it operates (DatalInks, SAMS, AEW, Cyber, etc).

F-16Vs and C8 are very very good, but they will essentially operate outside our current ecosystem with just Erieyes and TPS-77s they can "talk" to.

Essentially we could be getting great air defence gear that may cause us more problems then it solves?

Acquiring Block 72 / V F-16s can also be seen as a deterrence. India doesn’t want to give credit to Chinese fighters, but can tell its people it is not perusing war with Pakistan due to the most modern F-16s in Pakistan’s inventory. You can hear their cope in various Indian YouTubers channels.

It’s also good to have modern F-16s to get into training with the US and NATO again, as well as the US not feeling PAF pilots should not be operating the most advanced fighters they have sold to the Saudis (and other GCC countries).

 

[Yasser76]

they literally use the same motor, same avionics and underwent the same F3R refresh...

dont look too much into DSCA- These are the MAX the deals can cost, the ceiling of equipment, costs and procurement. Usually far below

Sure, but even taking that into account, and assuming the packages where similar.

$75 million for a plane and "extras", even max, at $225 million?

Just saying, even taking into account what the buyer ends up getting in the whole package, unit prices seem to flucuate quite a bit

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Unsure, just very strange Bahrain paid $75 million and Jordan $300 million for same plane! Not matter how different the weapons/traning/spares packages are for both deals, that is a massive difference.

Price of plane rises if it is close to Israel, can't have a strong airforce near Israel

Jordan trying to be good boy , and buy something to appease Donald keep him happy with sweet 300 million USD

 

[Yasser76]

Price of plane rises if it is close to Israel, can't have a strong airforce near Israel

I dont think that is the case in all honesty.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

$4.2 Billion USD could have easily bought

• 100+ JF17 Thunders without weapons package

May be attain Weapons in separate deal

• Another 300-400 Million for missiles

Buying $300 million per plane is a offering form King Jordan to Donald Trump , like in old days , tribes sent basket of fruit to another King

Offering from us to you King Region

 

[Ak01]

Sure, but even taking that into account, and assuming the packages where similar.

$75 million for a plane and "extras", even max, at $225 million?

Just saying, even taking into account what the buyer ends up getting in the whole package, unit prices seem to flucuate quite a bit

very dependant as always on whats coming with it.

could be infrastructure overhaul, naturally these deals are shrowded in secrecy.

Kuwait's typhoons cost 350m per unit, but i guess its a bit misleading as the unit aircraft cost is mostly stable, its the other costs that tend to balloon it all

 

[Ak01]

$4.2 Billion USD could have easily bought

• 100+ JF17 Thunders without weapons package

Yeah, and 4.2bn could probably buy a thousand mig 21's, whats. your point?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Wasting money on F16V , 300 Million USD too much I am afraid
Why act so desperate?

F16 is like Fentanyl get addicted and can't get off it

 

[Ak01]

Wasting money on F16V , 300 Million USD too much I am afraid
Why act so desperate?

well, when theres an opening for the COAS of Jordans air force, you should put your application in

 

[Yasser76]

Wasting money on F16V , 300 Million USD too much I am afraid
Why act so desperate?

That is not the price, we were actually debating the fluctuations if you read everyone's posts properly you will understand

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

well, when theres an opening for the COAS of Jordans air force, you should put your application in

That King will get replaced by his own people one day that is always the fate of such Kings