NGAD IS THE BEST
Elite Member
NO South African ATLAS CARVER has striking resemblance than this one maybe HAL and DRDDO purchase CARVER design to develop TEJAS in 90s
AMCA vs KAAN vs KF-21 India Turkey & Korea’s Fighter Jets Battle For Air Supremacy—Who Leads The Pack? OP-ED
- Thread starter dani191
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That_Guy
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Where did you get that 300 figure from?
You retire your worst, and retain you best, while inducting newer fighters.
By the time India has a prototype, Pakistan should have 1 to 2 squadrons of 5th gen.
Pakistan has a doctrine that says there should a hi-lo mix of fighters. Pakistan won't get rid of its 4th gen fighters until a suitable 6th gen is available, and 5th gen become the lo in the hi-lo equation.
[Edit]: Its also looking to upgrade its existing F-16 fighter fleet through (in discussion) turkiye, and (rumor has it) Romania. It's likely going to also increase its orders of J-10Cs to +70, and continue retiring its Mirage, and few F-7 fighter fleets. So no, it doesn't need to replace 300 fighters any time soon.
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dani191
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Turkey's KAAN Fighter vs US F-35: A Closer Look At Feuding Fighter Jet Capabilities
By Christian D. Orr
Published Jun 15, 2024
Christian D. Orr was previously Senior Defense Editor for 19FortyFive. He is a former Air Force Security Forces officer, Federal law enforcement officer, and private military contractor (with assignments worked in Iraq, the United Arab Emirates, Kosovo, Japan, Germany, and the Pentagon). Chris holds a B.A. in International Relations from the University of Southern California (USC) and an M.A. in Intelligence Studies (concentration in Terrorism Studies) from American Military University (AMU). He has also been published in The National Interest, Real Clear Defense, The Daily Torch and The Journal of Intelligence and Cyber Security.
https://simpleflying.com/turkey-kaan-fighter-vs-usaf-f-35-feuding-fighter-jet-capabilities/#threads
Summary
- Turkey has developed a domestic fighter jet, the KAAN, to replace F-16s & compete with the F-35.
- The KAAN boasts on-paper advantages over the F-35, with two engines and more payload capacity.
- Turkish Aerospace Industries plans to produce 20 KAAN jets by 2028 and increase production in subsequent years.
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These Are The World's Top 5 Air Forces Equipped With F-16 Fighter Jets
The F-16 is one of the most ubiquitous fighter jets in the world, with over 25 operators.1
By Christian D. Orr
May 16, 2024
But now we're going to discuss a different sort of rivalry, this time a newly declared international, inter-alliance rivalry, between the fighter jock communities of the U.S. and one of its longtime NATO allies. Turkey (or "Türkiye," if you prefer).
Turkey remains a NATO ally in spite of its President, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, having cozy relations with Russia. That Turkish-American alliance is exemplified by the fact that Turkey is second only to the U.S. in having the largest F-16 fleet in the world (as noted in the article linked above).
However, as far as a 5th Generation fighter jet replacement for the F-16, Turkey is now turning to a homegrown warbird (no avian pun intended) instead of the American-made Lockheed Martin F-35 Lighting !!: say "Merhaba" ("Hello") to the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) KAAN ("Leader" or "Ruler") fighter AKA the TF ("Turkish Fighter"), TF-X, and MMU (Milli Muharip Uçak/"National Combat Aircraft"),
The why and the wherefore of the KAAN
The Turkish government indeed wanted to purchase the F-35, just like so many U.S. allies both inside and outside of NATO have already done.Related
We Asked The Australian Air Force How The F-35 Lightning II Is Performing
U.S.-owned F-35s are notorious for their reliability issues. Yet the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) F-35s are performing just fine, thanks.1
By Christian D. Orr
Apr 30, 2024
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However, remember what I just said about Erdogan's cozy relationship with Russia? Um, yeah, about that: on the one hand, Turkey's autocratic ruler has been selling Bayraktar drones to Ukraine; yet on the other hand, Erdogan is playing both sides of the fence, having purchased the Russian S-400 air defense system! Ergo, as Agnes Helou of Breaking Defense reported a month ago:
The first flight of the KAAN was a fairly modest performance, lasting just 13 minutes, with the aircraft reportedly reaching an altitude of 8,000 ft (2,438.4 m) and a speed of 230 kts (254 mph; 425.9 km/h).
The KAAN completed a second flight last month, whereupon the TAI test pilot took a KAAN prototype up to 10,000 feet (3,048 m) for more than 14 minutes. The successful completion of this second mission prompted a rather bold claim by TAI General Manager Temel Kotil (as quoted by Joe Saballa of The Defense Post):
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"This aircraft is better than the F-35,” Kotil told Turkiye Newspaper. “The F-35 carries six tons, [the KAAN] carries 10 tons of ammunition... Having two engines means more energy and radars illuminating a greater distance."
"Better than the F-35?!?!" Whoa, there, shots fired (strictly metaphorically speaking in this case, of course)! Or, in the immortal words of Bugs Bunny:Oh, the irony: A Turkish Air Force F-16 jet acted as a safety chase during that second test flight.
F-35 vs. KAAN head-to-head
Okay then, Mr. Kotil's audacious claim begs a serious question: how do the KAAN and the F-35 really stack up against each other? Do the facts and figures of the KAAN actually back up Kotil's claims?The challenge in attempting a proper head-to-head comparison of the two competing warbirds is that fact, as noted by Stefano D'Urso of The Aviationist, "Not much is known about Kaan’s specifications." What we can do here and now is examine the specifications that Signore D'Urso *was* able to gather and place them alongside the F-35 specifications that came courtesy of the ever-so-handy official USAF Fact Sheets:
[td]KAAN[/td]
[td]F-35[/td] [td]Max Airspeed[/td]
[td]Mach 1.8 (1,381 mph; 2,222 km/h)[/td]
[td]Mach 1.6 (~1,200 mph; 1.975 km/h)[/td] [td]Service Ceiling[/td]
[td]55,000 ft (16,764 m)[/td]
[td]Above 50,000 feet (15 kilometers)[/td] [td]Powerplant[/td]
[td]2 x F110-GE129 engines with 58,000 lb (26,308 kg) of thrust[/td]
[td]1 x Pratt & Whitney F135-PW-100 turbofan engine with 43,000 lb (19,504 kg) of thrust[/td]
So then, based upon those admittedly limited stats, the KAAN does indeed appear to have some on-paper advantages over Lightning II. How those on-paper advantages translate to the real world if and when (inshallah) the KAAN makes it past the prototype phase to the production phase remains to be seen.The way forward for the KAAN
Regarding that prospective production phase, Mr. Kotil is full of bluster and confidence there too. He and his employer aim to deliver 20 of the new aircraft by 2028 -- along with ambitions to manufacture domestically-made engines by that same year -- and “many more” between 2030 and 2033.Time will tell whether TAI actually fulfills Kotil's rosy forecast or if he ends up over-promising and under-delivering.
flyingorca
Registered Member
Thats South African design was based on Mirage III.
hasssanali8998
Elite Member
CallSignMaverick
Registered Member
"They look similar, must be same, must be copied".
No yasser, DRDO labs have made several design iterations, wind tunnel testings, LRUs fabricated, developed sensors and avionics for it, made a full-scale engineering model for testing, developed own RAM materials, serpentine intakes and so on. They proudly showcase all the tech they've worked upon and developed over the years in their brochures/presentations. PAC otoh hasn't done anything beyond painting Azm on a C-130, AMCA however delayed will eventually fly and be inducted. Saying both are at same level is what actual stupidity is.
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flyingorca
Registered Member
Where did I say India copied? I said Europeans consultants and contractors designed LCA just like Dharuv Arjun LCH etc.
panzerfaust 3
Registered Member
Maybe he's and actual indian Jew living in Israel?
I have met quite a few especially in Konkan region of india ( and every Jew is an Israeli citizen by law)
Back to topic- I don't endorse anything in this article, until and unless we have a flying prototype,we have developed almost all components but we can't compare
And the truth is turkish aerospace r&d is nothing short of a miracle! We are hoping that we'll be able to turn things around and builtour aerospace sector along the lines of our space agency
MMM-E
Elite Member
Turkiye has started developing its own defense industry after American arms embargo in 1975
We have reached this level as a result of 50 years of determined work and experience.
btw both Turkiye ( $1,565 trillion of GDP ) and S.Korea ( $1,858 trillion of GDP ) are industrialized Countries
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Turkiye has surpassed a giant country like India in conventional military technologies and once we develop the TF-35,000 turbofan engine, we will have caught up with a country like France.
Many Turkish companies took part in the production of KAAN and supported its production...... only Engine is from USA and ejection seat from The UK
CallSignMaverick
Registered Member
Yeah sure, next say they're designing AMCA and RPSA as well.
Bro not this shit again
Vikramaditya1
Trusted Member
All delta wing designs are going to look the same. The hard part is getting things to the right proportion and using the right materials. No Western country is going to hold your hands all the way. Not even Russians. At the end of the day, you have to design, test, find problems and overcome it. If we simply copied some western jet as it is, we wouldn't have issue mass producing them. But Tejas had issues, that's why there was MK1, 2 et al. MK2 feature Canard delta wing design which are not present in MK1.
MMM-E
Elite Member
Bro not this shit again
Even S.Korea lack most of them
Turkish aviation Industry
TS-1400 turboshaft Engine for Helicopters
TF-6.000 / TF-10.000 turbofan Engines
Dalit
Elite Member
That is what happens when you have a false flagging Indian starting a thread.
NGAD IS THE BEST
Elite Member
no, that design was not based on mirage 3 but Atlas Cheeta was based on mirage 3 not this one
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