Deino
INT'L MOD
- Nov 9, 2014
- 13,666
- 24,607
@Hendarto Please calm down and take thsi as a final very clear warning! This BS musat end and I explain to you WHY!
Yes I am biased, but not against you not in a negative way against the J-20 - in fact f you would know me, I'm probably one of the biggest supporters and admirer in the West following this program since day one! - but I'm biased against BS, lies, propaganda and fabricated stories like yours.
This mess started all with your bombastic claim "Anyone still saying J20 is not made for sir superiority just watch this video really kick-ass fighter" (#73) and all I did was explaining to you, that "No one denies this, but to rate this demonstration as prove for being a „really kick-ass fighter“ is not justified… in fact in comparison to several other fighters this is a rather lame display but I’m sure we still haven’t seen its full potential" (#74). your initial claim
In fact there are several types which provided much more impressive aerial displays at air shows so far than the J-20 and this is not an opinion but a fact; in fact I attended this display myself! Just look at the Su-57, F-22, Flankers and even the F-15EX recently ... and it is not shameful but just an observation, since an air show display is not that relevant for combat, but the facts are:
- this was neither an impressive demonstration you portrayed
- and most likely we still haven’t seen the J-20's full potential yet. We can assume a lot, but it hasen't clearly shown it yet.
So much on the facts:
You then replied with a lot of useless text about the "WS10C is only an interim engine" and that "they will have the production model with WS 15" (#77).
Again fact check: Yes, the WS-10C is an interim engine, not on par with the F119 as you want to portray it and the WS-15 - which in fact will be - is not yet ready. Aka the current J-20 is not the hyper-fighter you claim!
Then you continued with "J 20 with WS 10 C CAN SUPERCRUISE is that enough? All your statement is just your own opinion and not based on fact!" which in fact - so much on facts is irrelevant - since supercruise is not the same as your initial claim of "being a „really kick-ass fighter“" (#74).
Then a lot of BS followed in long text passages all irrelevant to the initial claim you made and no-one disagrees that the PLAAF is satisfied ... but again that does not equal to "being a „really kick-ass fighter“" (#74).
Additionally, you claim:
and yes, the PLAAF never published any official data but reliable posters and analysts all over did, so that at least a rough estimate is possible and NONE of them - including Chinese sources - say it is on par with the F119. The WS-10C - since it never was to be - is a very good engine, a tremendous improvement of the original WS-10 but still not an F119-level engine since otherwise the WS-15 could have been cancelled. Yes, the WS-15 most likely will be that engine.
In return however - and my my point here as a moderator - on the one side you spread unfounded claims as facts and deny any critical thinking or at least to be careful with hyperboled and bolt claims as anti-China and that's in fact trolling!
Therefore I kindly ask you to calm down, no-one wants to downrate or belittle the J-20 or the Chinese achievements in engine development, but on the one side making bolt unproven claims, bash all critis down as "anti-China" and when faced with facts or pointed towards the absence of them to divert to irrelevant BS like bashing the F-35 (which was never the initial point) is shameful.
As such, all your initial claim of "being a „really kick-ass fighter“ which is unfounded has led to a long and most useless discussion on anything, discussion on semantics and the lame attempt to divert to a "supercruise" discussion ... and this MUST END!
As such, yes I am biased, but not against you but against unfounded, unproven chest bumping and claims.
Yes I am biased, but not against you not in a negative way against the J-20 - in fact f you would know me, I'm probably one of the biggest supporters and admirer in the West following this program since day one! - but I'm biased against BS, lies, propaganda and fabricated stories like yours.
This mess started all with your bombastic claim "Anyone still saying J20 is not made for sir superiority just watch this video really kick-ass fighter" (#73) and all I did was explaining to you, that "No one denies this, but to rate this demonstration as prove for being a „really kick-ass fighter“ is not justified… in fact in comparison to several other fighters this is a rather lame display but I’m sure we still haven’t seen its full potential" (#74). your initial claim
In fact there are several types which provided much more impressive aerial displays at air shows so far than the J-20 and this is not an opinion but a fact; in fact I attended this display myself! Just look at the Su-57, F-22, Flankers and even the F-15EX recently ... and it is not shameful but just an observation, since an air show display is not that relevant for combat, but the facts are:
- this was neither an impressive demonstration you portrayed
- and most likely we still haven’t seen the J-20's full potential yet. We can assume a lot, but it hasen't clearly shown it yet.
So much on the facts:
You then replied with a lot of useless text about the "WS10C is only an interim engine" and that "they will have the production model with WS 15" (#77).
Again fact check: Yes, the WS-10C is an interim engine, not on par with the F119 as you want to portray it and the WS-15 - which in fact will be - is not yet ready. Aka the current J-20 is not the hyper-fighter you claim!
Then you continued with "J 20 with WS 10 C CAN SUPERCRUISE is that enough? All your statement is just your own opinion and not based on fact!" which in fact - so much on facts is irrelevant - since supercruise is not the same as your initial claim of "being a „really kick-ass fighter“" (#74).
Then a lot of BS followed in long text passages all irrelevant to the initial claim you made and no-one disagrees that the PLAAF is satisfied ... but again that does not equal to "being a „really kick-ass fighter“" (#74).
Additionally, you claim:
and yes, the PLAAF never published any official data but reliable posters and analysts all over did, so that at least a rough estimate is possible and NONE of them - including Chinese sources - say it is on par with the F119. The WS-10C - since it never was to be - is a very good engine, a tremendous improvement of the original WS-10 but still not an F119-level engine since otherwise the WS-15 could have been cancelled. Yes, the WS-15 most likely will be that engine.
In return however - and my my point here as a moderator - on the one side you spread unfounded claims as facts and deny any critical thinking or at least to be careful with hyperboled and bolt claims as anti-China and that's in fact trolling!
Therefore I kindly ask you to calm down, no-one wants to downrate or belittle the J-20 or the Chinese achievements in engine development, but on the one side making bolt unproven claims, bash all critis down as "anti-China" and when faced with facts or pointed towards the absence of them to divert to irrelevant BS like bashing the F-35 (which was never the initial point) is shameful.
As such, all your initial claim of "being a „really kick-ass fighter“ which is unfounded has led to a long and most useless discussion on anything, discussion on semantics and the lame attempt to divert to a "supercruise" discussion ... and this MUST END!
As such, yes I am biased, but not against you but against unfounded, unproven chest bumping and claims.
