052D destroyers is expected to reach 60, and the new batch will be equipped with advanced phased array radar systems, which will be improved.

[MINGGE]

提升解放军海军数量最多的主力水面舰艇的性能，使其超越原有的设计，能够应对新出现的威胁；当威胁距离足够远时，它们会以更快的速度和更机动的方式发起挑战，以便在亚音速阶段将其摧毁。

前面已经说了，我们不同的舰艇负责不同的功能，我们有更强大的055，可以说是世界最强，052D只是我们的主心骨，所以它的功能已经开发到极限了，可以说十艘052D加上五艘054B，基本上可以灭掉全世界90%的海军！

 

[MH.Yang]

70 die in Chinese submarine accident

China’s Xinhua news agency reports the deaths of 70 submariners, but does not give any specific details as to the cause of the accident or when it happened

www.aljazeera.com

That's a news article published in 2003. You're attacking the Chinese Navy with a news item from over 20 years ago?

 

[MH.Yang]

What Makes a Real "Blue Water Navy"? Here's a List

No seafaring nation can live without these five capabilities.

nationalinterest.org

Here you are folks the worlds blue water navies

I think there's about eight

And yes India is the ranking as blue water

Back to topic

China has a navy that is equal of USA but lack the experience of war fighting

After World War II, the U.S. Navy only had real-world experience with Somali pirates.

In contrast, the Chinese Navy continued to engage in fleet-level combat with the Vietnamese Navy's destroyer fleet in the South China Sea until the 1990s.

 

[MH.Yang]

Gulf war was the most impressive show of power projection by any nation ever.

To bring this sort of fire power by sea and air was impressive.

The demonstration of USA military might was awesome inspiring and shocking

No country has ever show cased this in last seventy years

After the Korean War, the U.S. has not been at war with any country above the top ten in terms of national power.

The U.S. defeated Afghanistan, Iraq, Haiti, Grenada, Panama, Vietnam, and other small countries, and it was not much of a deterrent to powerful nations. Oh yeah, Vietnam was not defeated by the US.

PRC founding in 1949.
1949, China defeats British fleet (Amethyst Incident).
1950/1953, Korean War. China defeats the United Nations forces led by the United States, including the United States, Great Britain, France, South Korea, Canada, Australia, Turkey, and other countries.
1950/1954, Vietnam War of Independence, China assists the Vietnamese army in defeating France.
1962, India.
1967/1969, Sino-Soviet Border War.
1979/1992, China-Vietnam Border War.

China is not a country that bullies kindergarteners. All of China's opponents are military powers.

 

[onlinpunit]

After the Korean War, the U.S. has not been at war with any country above the top ten in terms of national power.

The U.S. defeated Afghanistan, Iraq, Haiti, Grenada, Panama, Vietnam, and other small countries, and it was not much of a deterrent to powerful nations. Oh yeah, Vietnam was not defeated by the US.

PRC founding in 1949.
1949, China defeats British fleet (Amethyst Incident).
1950/1953, Korean War. China defeats the United Nations forces led by the United States, including the United States, Great Britain, France, South Korea, Canada, Australia, Turkey, and other countries.
1950/1954, Vietnam War of Independence, China assists the Vietnamese army in defeating France.
1962, India.
1967/1969, Sino-Soviet Border War.
1979/1992, China-Vietnam Border War.

China is not a country that bullies kindergarteners. All of China's opponents are military powers.

In Korea war chinese were the cannon fodder of soviets !

 

[ety]

In Korea war chinese were the cannon fodder of soviets !

No, not like you Indians in the 1962 war were the canon folders of US and UK. The US army were at the Chinese border in 1950.

 

[MH.Yang]

In Korea war chinese were the cannon fodder of soviets !

Yes, from the Soviet point of view, we were indeed cannon fodder for the Soviets. But from our point of view, with or without the Soviets, this was a war we had to join.

Anyone who knows anything about the history of East Asia knows that any unified Chinese dynasty since ancient times would never have allowed hostile forces to exist in two locations, one in Vietnam and the other in Korea. For these are the only two avenues of attack on China by land (China is bounded by the ocean in the east, the Siberian ice sheet in the north, the great desert in the northwest, the highest plateau in the world in the southwest, and the virgin forests of Myitkyina in the south.). Since time immemorial, we would rather have wars with our enemies in Vietnam and Korea than on our soil.

Through this war, we have gotten more than enough spoils of war.

First, through the war, a large number of overseas Chinese saw the difference between the People's Republic of China and the previous Chinese government. A large number of top international scientists, including Qian Xuesen, returned to China from the West, and they led the research and development of China's nuclear weapons, intercontinental missiles, satellites, fighter jets, submarines, and other programs.

Second, the war showed the world the strength of China, which gradually became a leader in the Third World. The outcome of the war also gave China the capital to regain its permanent seat in the United Nations in 1971.

Third, the war allowed Stalin to see China's capabilities and value. Stalin began to give aid to China for basic heavy industry. As a result, China gained basic industry and began its evolution into a modern state. Eventually, through its superiority in industry, education, and infrastructure, it won the victory over India in 1979 and won the priority of international capital investment. It became the giant industrial power that it is now.

Now do you understand? Although India did not participate in the Korean War, it was India that was the biggest loser of the war.
The world does not have enough resources to industrialize two countries of one billion people. China's industrialization would inevitably lead to India lacking enough resources and channels to industrialize and would have to enter the service sector.1962 was actually Nehru's last gamble for India's future.
Nehru of course knew that it would be difficult for India to defeat the Chinese veterans who had just returned from the Korean War. But he had no other choice, China had already taken the lead in third world leadership, national industrialization and so on because of the Korean War.

 

[onlinpunit]

Yes, from the Soviet point of view, we were indeed cannon fodder for the Soviets. But from our point of view, with or without the Soviets, this was a war we had to join.

Anyone who knows anything about the history of East Asia knows that any unified Chinese dynasty since ancient times would never have allowed hostile forces to exist in two locations, one in Vietnam and the other in Korea. For these are the only two avenues of attack on China by land.

Through this war, we have gotten more than enough spoils of war.

First, through the war, a large number of overseas Chinese saw the difference between the People's Republic of China and the previous Chinese government. A large number of top international scientists, including Qian Xuesen, returned to China from the West, and they led the research and development of China's nuclear weapons, intercontinental missiles, satellites, fighter jets, submarines, and other programs.

Second, the war showed the world the strength of China, which gradually became a leader in the Third World. The outcome of the war also gave China the capital to regain its permanent seat in the United Nations in 1971.

Third, the war allowed Stalin to see China's capabilities and value. Stalin began to give aid to China for basic heavy industry. As a result, China gained basic industry and began its evolution into a modern state. Eventually, through its superiority in industry, education, and infrastructure, it won the victory over India in 1979 and won the priority of international capital investment. It became the giant industrial power that it is now.

Now do you understand? Although India did not participate in the Korean War, it was India that was the biggest loser of the war.
The world does not have enough resources to industrialize two countries of one billion people. China's industrialization would inevitably lead to India lacking enough resources and channels to industrialize and would have to enter the service sector.1962 was actually Nehru's last gamble for India's future.
Nehru of course knew that it would be difficult for India to defeat the Chinese veterans who had just returned from the Korean War. But he had no other choice, China had already taken the lead in third world leadership, national industrialization and so on because of the Korean War.

Now that's a excellent coping mechanism !!
How you guys justify and cope with the millions of death due to famines sponsored by the glorious leader. !

 

[onlinpunit]

No, not like you Indians in the 1962 war were the canon folders of US and UK. The US army were at the Chinese border in 1950.

Ok

 

[Foinikas]

How you guys justify and cope with the millions of death due to famines sponsored by the glorious leader. !

Ssshhh don't mention that. They don't like it

Anyway,it seems that the 052D are to be the Arleigh Burke's direct opponents. Such a massive ship and such a big number of models to be built,are obviously an attempt to rival the AB of the USN. It's a good attempt.

 

[MH.Yang]

Now that's a excellent coping mechanism !!
How you guys justify and cope with the millions of death due to famines sponsored by the glorious leader. !

First of all, it was not millions of people who died of starvation, and it was about 12 million people who died of starvation. Although we don't have a way to count the exact number of deaths, China conducts population counts every year. Comparing 1958/1960 with other years, population growth slowed by about 12 million. Incidentally, by this method it is also possible to calculate that about 5 million people died in India during COVID19 because of the epidemic.


Secondly, the error of these three years is a history known to every Chinese and an undeniable fact. A mistake is a mistake and there is no point in denying it, but rather, lessons should be learned to avoid making the same mistake next time. Mao Zedong was our great leader, but he was equally human and made mistakes. His merits will be remembered and his faults will not be forgotten.

Thirdly, the famine was caused by the "Great Leap Forward" movement. Almost all of China's industrial base and basic agricultural facilities were built in the three years 1958/1960. For example, CAC, which built the J10 and J20, SAC, which built the J16, and CSR, which built the high-speed railroad, etc., all of their predecessors were founded in these three years. More than 90% of China's dams, canals and other agricultural facilities were also built in 1958/1960. Get the picture? The Chinese did over 30 years worth of work in that three year period and then had a famine which led to massive deaths of the people. Mao's radical development policies need to be held primarily responsible for this.

Fourth, do you know about the famine that happened in India during World War II? Tens of millions of people starved to death. Unlike China, Indians were deliberately starved to death by the British. Food from India was looted and transported to the European theater. Churchill even said that Indians breed like rabbits and don't need food.

 

[MH.Yang]

Ssshhh don't mention that. They don't like it

Anyway,it seems that the 052D are to be the Arleigh Burke's direct opponents. Such a massive ship and such a big number of models to be built,are obviously an attempt to rival the AB of the USN. It's a good attempt.

The Great Famine of 1958/1960 in China is objective and true history, and there is nothing that cannot be discussed. This part of history is the focus of Chinese history textbooks, and Chinese seventh-grade students as young as 13 years old begin to study this part of history. There is a Chinese saying that "blocking the mouths of the people is as dangerous as blocking a flood (防民之口甚于防川)". Only the government can publish a large amount of historical data, correctly analyze and summarize the lessons of history, and frankly admit its mistakes. This is the best way to eliminate rumors.

 

[Foinikas]

The Great Famine of 1958/1960 in China is objective and true history, and there is nothing that cannot be discussed. This part of history is the focus of Chinese history textbooks, and Chinese seventh-grade students as young as 13 years old begin to study this part of history. There is a Chinese saying that "blocking the mouths of the people is as dangerous as blocking a flood (防民之口甚于防川)". Only the government can publish a large amount of historical data, correctly analyze and summarize the lessons of history, and frankly admit its mistakes. This is the best way to eliminate rumors.

But does it explain how it was Mao's fault because of the stupid and disastrous policies of the CCP?

 

[MH.Yang]

But does it explain how it was Mao's fault because of the stupid and disastrous policies of the CCP?

I am a member of the Communist Party. From the point of view of communist philosophy, I will adhere to two principles in looking at issues: first, seeking truth from facts. Honestly looking at a problem is the best way to solve it. Two, dichotomy. Everything has its good side and its bad side.

1958/1960 was undoubtedly a mistake made by Mao Zedong. On the bad side, it cost China more than 10 million lives. On the good side, China achieved the initial modernization of the country; we had basic industry and basic modern agriculture. This eventually led to our victory over India leading industrialization. As I have already said, the planet has only enough resources to industrialize one of China and India.

Thirdly, please note that I have always said "mistake" and not "crime". Because, when the CCP under Mao Zedong made this decision, his subjective intention was to build the country better, not to satisfy his own selfish desires. It was a mistake for him to unintentionally make a wrong decision in leading the country. He intentionally damaged the country's interests for his selfish desires, and that is the crime. The former is excusable, the latter is not.

As for whether or not CCP is stupid, people on this forum have their own answers, and I don't need to explain them. If CCP is stupid, then what about those who were defeated by CCP?

During Modi's rule, 5 million people died in India because of COVID19. So what do you think Indians should do about this mistake?

 

[Foinikas]

Thirdly, please note that I have always said "mistake" and not "crime".

And that's the problem. Millions dying by Mao and the CCP's policies are a "mistake" and not a "crime".

I am a member of the Communist Party.

I see.