052D destroyers is expected to reach 60, and the new batch will be equipped with advanced phased array radar systems, which will be improved.

[ety]

DL is slightly longer and with minor improvements over the Standard D model.

But this design needs better surface search capabilities and a method to engage small and/or fast threats; sea-skimming and coming in waves. Even a 16 cell addition of Quad-Packed missiles in the capabilities of the ESSM/CAMM-ER would mean the adding 64 missiles dedicated for the close in defensive mission. A smaller main gun (76 or 57 mm) an making space for these missiles would probably be a more useful upgrade.

Improvements to the mast to search the surface with a different and dedicated radar band as well as IRST sensors could detect threats like the LRASM or NSM or Brahmos.

052D already has 24 HQ 10 SAM that can knock out incoming missiles as low as 1.5 metres. It also has H/PJ-11/11/30 mm gun that deals supersonic sea skimming missiles.

 

[FuturePAF]

052D already has 24 HQ 10 SAM that can knock out incoming missiles as low as 1.5 metres. It also has H/PJ-11/11/30 mm gun that deals supersonic sea skimming missiles.

Out to only 9km or 15 km for the HQ-10 and under 3 km for the H/PJ-11/11/30 mm gun

Not long range enough to be fired in enough salvos to ensure being able to take out a salvo of enemy missiles. The HQ-16 is not adequate to deal with the threat in the 15-50 km range where these missiles are visible but can’t be effectively engaged.

 

[xiao]

Please confirm where I said bad quality stop trolling I ask again refrain derailing thread
China has Amazing ships
Just zero combat heritage

But there are some countries that don't even have amazing ships, such as; United Kingdom

 

[xiao]

The gas turbine engines are of the 30 MW rating, and there is a 40 MW turbofan engine in development. If the two gas turbine engine reach that level, it will be equal that of the Arleigh Burkes 78 total MW power.
Then look at replacing the diesel engines with cruising (fuel efficient / modest speed) turbofan engines so all engines use one fuel type and get better performance and usage of internal space in the ship.

Considering the Burkes weigh just under 10k tons, a variant of the Type 052D (with shaping similar to the Type 055) but in the 9-10k ton size, could be just large enough to hold another 32 VLS and be a good cost effective destroyer for the PLAN.

A 96 cell 9kton Type 052D derivative with Type 55 shaping and high speed performance all under $1 billion each could sell really well, especially in the GCC.

Heck if the PN could afford it, it would purchase 6, per its desire for Blue Water Destroyers, especially to be able to really do full EEZ ASW in force.

Yes and no, even if Pakistan has 052d, but land attacks from terrorist groups cannot be stopped unless the countries behind the terrorist groups are eliminated, the same is true of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor that India said before, imagine what would happen if there was a sudden terrorist attack on the highway, 300 kilometers per hour high-speed rail, if these terrorist groups were not solved? What if there are bombs of terrorist groups on oil ships in ports?

 

[FuturePAF]

Yes and no, even if Pakistan has 052d, but land attacks from terrorist groups cannot be stopped unless the countries behind the terrorist groups are eliminated, the same is true of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor that India said before, imagine what would happen if there was a sudden terrorist attack on the highway, 300 kilometers per hour high-speed rail, if these terrorist groups were not solved? What if there are bombs of terrorist groups on oil ships in ports?

India can’t be eliminated only isolated from interference in Pakistan, through neutralizing their proxies and limiting the ability of the proxies from operating from their sanctuaries in Iran and Afghanistan. This is why Pakistan needs both, conventional capabilities of a strong navy, to check the conventional Indian military, but also a strong paramilitary and police force as well as robust polity and economy to secure the borders and interdict enemy while dissuading recruitment from amongst our own people.

The second design in the following video would probably be ideal for Pakistan, but with IEP and a COGOG configuration. To be able to afford that, Pakistan would have to improve the economy and wait till China has perfected IEP tech for its own destroyers.



So Pakistan should focus on improving its economy, political landscape, and internal harmony by 2030, while China finishes that 40 MW turbofan engine and making the IEP economical and very reliable.

If pakistan is back on track to at least 6-7% annual growth and managing its politics and economy, such that it is no longer dependent (or dictated to) by the IMF or any other foreign bank, it can invest in its interests without interference.

But as or once Pakistan has made this shift for reforms and self correction, it will need support from China, in the form of integration into Chinese supply chains, to jump start Pakistan’s re-industrialization. While this can be done by ship, China also has a desire to develop its western provinces, and therefore a rail route direct between the two countries, despite the $56 Billion cost, will make it economically viable for Chinese firms to invest more in western China and in industrial parks in Pakistan where labor will be cheap enough to process raw material from all points west of Pakistan and ship them on to Chinese firms in western China for further development and then ship finally to eastern China and final assembly and export. Goods exporting to the Middle East and Africa could also go the other way or just be shipped to Karachi for final assembly (with our relatively cheaper labor) to help Pakistan have the economy to not be as dependent on western markets.

P.s. development of western China is a goal of the central government, so the rail corridor is as much beneficial to China as it is for Pakistan, and will dissuade Indian forces from being able to invade Kashmir/GB, knowing it will then be come a vital interest of China, allowing Pakistan to focus more funding on economic growth (and being better able to afford Chinese equipment).

 

[ety]

Out to only 9km or 15 km for the HQ-10 and under 3 km for the H/PJ-11/11/30 mm gun

Not long range enough to be fired in enough salvos to ensure being able to take out a salvo of enemy missiles. The HQ-16 is not adequate to deal with the threat in the 15-50 km range where these missiles are visible but can’t be effectively engaged.

Much longer ranges HQ-16B and HQ-16FE have come out.

 

[Dalit]

Shocked why not sold any to Pakistan who have nil destroyers right now

Good destroyer though

It will come. No doubt.

 

[FuturePAF]

Much longer ranges HQ-16B and HQ-16FE have come out.

HQ-16 isn’t said to be as nimble against supersonic skimmers and can’t make out low RCS missiles (with the HQ-16’s semi-active seekers) like the LRASM and NSM fast enough to be as effective for the 15-50 km mission.

The HQ-16B / HQ-16FE could be good enough if it’s an active missile and has the addition of an IR sensor like the SM-2MR Block IIIB, but the size of the missile is fine for 160 km range missile, bit too large for a 70km missile. Smaller missiles could operate out to the 50 km range and be quad packed, increasing the probability of a kill.

Obscure 23-Year Old Navy SAM Was So Ahead Of Its Time That It's Still In High Demand Today

The SM-2 Block IIIB's dual-mode guidance system is still unique among the missiles the Navy's fleet uses to defend against aerial threats.

www.twz.com

 

[ety]

DL is slightly longer and with minor improvements over the Standard D model.

But this design needs better surface search capabilities and a method to engage small and/or fast threats; sea-skimming and coming in waves. Even a 16 cell addition of Quad-Packed missiles in the capabilities of the ESSM/CAMM-ER would mean the adding 64 missiles dedicated for the close in defensive mission. A smaller main gun (76 or 57 mm) an making space for these missiles would probably be a more useful upgrade.

Improvements to the mast to search the surface with a different and dedicated radar band as well as IRST sensors could detect threats like the LRASM or NSM or Brahmos.

 

[FuturePAF]

It’s a good start, but it might be able detect the small RCS missiles like LRASM and NSM far enough out to have enough opportunities to fire off missiles with a 50 km in the needed numbers.

An IRST system is needed, like Artemis.

 

[Nuffle]

Some funny comments here. India is a true Blue Water Navy because it sails in the Red Sea, but the PLA Navy is not because it has no bases abroad hahahaha

The only reaction to this is to laugh.

 

[ety]

The original 35 Type 052D destroyers were built in 10 years. Why is the price/performance ratio so high?​

2024-05-29 17:17
Published in: Henan Province

In the previous article, I talked to you about a series of stories about the development of various main warships in our country, such as the Type 055 destroyer and the Type 054B destroyer. Today, we talk about the Type 052D destroyer. From 2014 to 2024, within 10 years, my country built a total of 35 052D series destroyers, becoming the largest number of destroyers built in my country. So, what is the cost performance of the 052D series destroyers, and why have more than 30 ships been built?

First, let’s talk about the development of our country’s main warships. Throughout the 1990s, our country successively developed two Type 052 destroyers and one Type 051B destroyer. However, the comprehensive performance of the above-mentioned ships is relatively limited, especially the air defense combat capabilities are obviously insufficient. In such a general environment, in order to further improve the modernization level of the PLA Navy and further improve its combat effectiveness. From the late 1990s to the early 21st century, our country successively imported four modern-class destroyers from Russia.

In the early 21st century, modern-class destroyers belong to the absolute elite main force of our country's navy. After entering the 21st century, our country has successively built two Type 052B destroyers, two Type 052C destroyers, and two Type 051C destroyers. In particular, the Type 052C destroyer is a regional air defense destroyer. It is equipped with 8 groups of 6 joints with a total of 48 units of circular vertical launch systems, which mainly launch Haihongqi 9 air defense missiles. However, due to the immature technologies in engines, radars, missiles and other aspects.

People's Liberation Army modern-class destroyers, a total of 4 ships

In the first batch of Type 052C destroyers, only two were built. It was not until after 2010, when all aspects of technology were fully stabilized, that my country began the construction of the second batch of Type 052C destroyers, totaling four ships. However, the Type 052C destroyer is still limited in all aspects of technology, and there is a clear gap with various main ships in the world's first echelon.

With the overall development of our country's scientific and technological level, our country has further developed the Type 052D destroyer based on the Type 052C destroyer. The Type 052D destroyer is a 7,000-ton-class ship. It is equipped with 8 groups of 8-unit 64-unit vertical launching systems. It can launch a series of weapons such as Haihongqi 9 air defense missiles, YJ 18 anti-ship missiles, and Yu 10 anti-submarine missiles. It is very cost-effective. In 2014, the first type 052D destroyer entered service. The PLA Navy is very satisfied with the comprehensive cost performance and reliability of the Type 052D destroyer.

Japanese Kongo-class destroyers, 4 in total

In fact, Japan was very concerned about the construction of the Type 052D destroyer. At that time, some Japanese media had already begun to speculate on the number of Type 052D destroyers to be built. Some Japanese media believe that by 2020, my country will have about six Type 052D destroyers in service. Together with 6 Type 052C and 2 Type 051C destroyers, it forms the main ship formation of our navy.

In comparison, Japan has 4 Kongo-class destroyers, 2 Atago-class destroyers, plus various types of general-purpose destroyers, such as Takaha-class, Murasame-class, etc., and still has "the advantage." However, I never expected that my country's Type 052D destroyer has entered the mass construction stage. The number of constructions exceeded the speculations of the United States, Japan and other media, and even exceeded the speculations of many institutions or experts in our country. As of April 2024, within 10 years, my country has built a total of 35 052D series destroyers.

People's Liberation Army Type 052C destroyer, a total of 6 ships

According to statistics, as of April 2024, our country's navy has a total of 27 or 28 052D series destroyers in service. In addition, there are 7/8 052D series destroyers still in the process of sea trials and outfitting, and are expected to enter service in 2024 and 2025. Of course, the Type 052D destroyer is a ship developed in the 2010s, and it has been more than 10 years. With the development of science and technology and feedback from the naval forces, my country's 052D series destroyers have also made a series of improvements.

According to statistics from a series of foreign media, the 35 052D series destroyers built in our country are divided into 4 batches. Among them, the first and second batches are basic models, with a total of 13 ships. Compared with the first two batches, the third batch has seen great improvements, called Type 052DL, with a total of 12 ships. Compared with the first two batches, the length of the hangar and helicopter platform of the third batch has been appropriately lengthened, and it can park, take off and land Z-20 anti-submarine helicopters.

At the same time, the YLC-8B shipborne warning radar (jokingly called a flyswatter by netizens) was used to replace the original 517B meter-wave radar. The first two batches of Type 052D destroyers could only take off and land Z-9 or Ka-28 helicopters due to their relatively short hangars and helicopter platforms. There are 4 batches of Type 052D destroyers, and so far, there are a total of 10 ships. Whether it will be built in batches again is still unknown.

Compared with the previous three batches, the fourth batch of Type 052D destroyers uses the 368 X-band double-sided phased array masttop radar to replace the original H/LJQ-364 quick response radar on the main mast. It is conducive to blind filling at low altitude, and the detection range and reaction time are significantly increased for sea-skimming stealth targets that are increasingly threatening. Especially various low, slow and small targets, such as cruise missiles, drones, etc.

PLA Type 052D destroyer, 35 in total

A question arises, why are 35 052D series destroyers built? First of all, after entering the 2010s, as the economy continued to develop at a rapid pace, our country's navy entered a period of rapid development. The navy has a very high demand for various large and medium-sized ships, especially the number of large-tonnage destroyers, which is very urgent. Second, the Type 052D destroyer has a very high overall cost performance and can take into account all aspects of combat needs. The Navy is still very satisfied with the Type 052D series destroyers.

Of course, the main reason is the support of strong national power. Without sufficient financial and material resources, and without our country's huge development in steel, electronic equipment, power systems, aviation industry and other aspects, our navy will definitely not be able to make great strides in development. In comparison, the naval development of other established naval powers in the world has obviously declined in recent years. All kinds of large main ships can be counted on two hands. Take my country's Type 055 destroyer as an example. Currently, there are more than 10 destroyers.

Eight PLA Type 055 destroyers have been put into service

Let’s take the U.S. Navy as an example. More than 60 U.S. Ari Burke destroyers have been in service. Currently, the United States is building Arleigh Burke 2A and Arleigh Burke 3 destroyers in batches. According to the U.S. Navy's plan, the Ari Burke 3 destroyers will gradually replace the old Ari Burke early batches. In the 2030s, the United States plans to further develop the 13,000-ton DDGX destroyer.

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www-sohu-com.translate.goog

 

[ety]

 

[MINGGE]

HQ-10 的射程仅为 9 公里或 15 公里，而 H/PJ-11/11/30 毫米火炮的射程则不到 3 公里

射程不够远，无法发射足够的齐射来确保能够击落敌方导弹。HQ-16 不足以应对 15-50 公里范围内的威胁，因为这些导弹虽然可见，但无法有效拦截。

你说的没错，但是052D公开的参数里防空距离是260公里，因为我们052D的任务主要是提供反舰和对岸火力支援，防空主要是自卫，而我们防空有专业的护航舰艇，所以功能上是不一样的，没有一样是比的！

 

[FuturePAF]

你说的没错，但是052D公开的参数里防空距离是260公里，因为我们052D的任务主要是提供反舰和对岸火力支援，防空主要是自卫，而我们防空有专业的护航舰艇，所以功能上是不一样的，没有一样是比的！

Improving the capabilities of the most numerous principal surface vessel of the PLAN, beyond its original design, will enable it to be able to deal with emerging threats; Faster and more Maneuverable challenges, when they are far enough away, so as to be destroyed in their subsonic phase.