AJK govt bans Joint Awami Action Committee, notification issued

[Goenitz]

Disturbing reports Kashmiri Students which are studying in Universities are getting picked up one by one

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[Goenitz]

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[Goenitz]

JAAC terrorists are so bold that they are firing in front of police to kill Kashmiris to score brownie points. The all-noble police have shown full restraint.

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[M. Sarmad]

The carnage unleashed by these power drunk jurnails in AJK will haunt generations......

 

[Oscar]

The carnage unleashed by these power drunk jurnails in AJK will haunt generations......

Keep in mind - that the demand for an independent or rather plebiscite driven independence has been the Pakistani ask since 47.

There is reason you call it AJK vs JK.

And there is a lot of preferential treatment that has been provided but there is also rampant abuse of that structure by people who quite frankly who other than personal profit have little connection to the day to day troubles and lives of Kashmiris.

On the subject of brass - it also needs to be looked at from a "who you are" perspective and the world view that enforces it.
The most DANGEROUS thing to Pakistan(for that matter the world) is motivated reasoning( thank you for Startalk to helping me find the actual term for something I rally against)... which is using intellect to defend a conclusion you already need to be true.

People keep asking why Pakistani generals sound so certain about Kashmir, governance, and “what the country needs.” A senior officer usually isn’t some random professional right? The whole hierarchy structure is built into the military BUT also reflects the culture - The institution has told itself for decades that Pakistan is permanently one mistake away from being undone, and that the army is the only thing holding the center.

More interestingly is why people find them supporting the same two dynasties or families because they end up in the same clubs and housing society structure. The same backgrounds, school buddies or party invites - girayin - etc. Everyone can tell themselves they’re serving Pakistan while sharing the quieter belief that ordinary people can’t be fully trusted with the state. You will not lecture them out of it. When military, political, bureaucratic and business elites share the same need for the story to stay true, the country doesn’t slowly correct. It digs in to that idea. (to your point @Jango ).

You(common anti-establishment talk) think they're running on some zionist conspiracy(which ironically is the other side of the coin in motivated reasoning) but at the end you need to start with who for e.g. FM or whoever the individual is what his world has always rewarded, and what would fall apart for him if the opposite were true.

THE KEY DIFFERENCE IS GUNS. Guns make it enforceable. Motivated reasoning makes it feel like virtue
And a lot of them aren’t twirling mustaches. They genuinely think they’re the adults. The entire section of society was built so they almost never have to test that.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Keep in mind - that the demand for an independent or rather plebiscite driven independence has been the Pakistani ask since 47.

There is reason you call it AJK vs JK.

And there is a lot of preferential treatment that has been provided but there is also rampant abuse of that structure by people who quite frankly who other than personal profit have little connection to the day to day troubles and lives of Kashmiris.

On the subject of brass - it also needs to be looked at from a "who you are" perspective and the world view that enforces it.
The most DANGEROUS thing to Pakistan(for that matter the world) is motivated reasoning( thank you for Startalk to helping me find the actual term for something I rally against)... which is using intellect to defend a conclusion you already need to be true.

People keep asking why Pakistani generals sound so certain about Kashmir, governance, and “what the country needs.” A senior officer usually isn’t some random professional right? The whole hierarchy structure is built into the military BUT also reflects the culture - The institution has told itself for decades that Pakistan is permanently one mistake away from being undone, and that the army is the only thing holding the center.

More interestingly is why people find them supporting the same two dynasties or families because they end up in the same clubs and housing society structure. The same backgrounds, school buddies or party invites - girayin - etc. Everyone can tell themselves they’re serving Pakistan while sharing the quieter belief that ordinary people can’t be fully trusted with the state. You will not lecture them out of it. When military, political, bureaucratic and business elites share the same need for the story to stay true, the country doesn’t slowly correct. It digs in to that idea. (to your point @Jango ).

You(common anti-establishment talk) think they're running on some zionist conspiracy(which ironically is the other side of the coin in motivated reasoning) but at the end you need to start with who for e.g. FM or whoever the individual is what his world has always rewarded, and what would fall apart for him if the opposite were true.

THE KEY DIFFERENCE IS GUNS. Guns make it enforceable. Motivated reasoning makes it feel like virtue
And a lot of them aren’t twirling mustaches. They genuinely think they’re the adults. The entire section of society was built so they almost never have to test that.

Good frame, and motivated reasoning is the right name for it...... I would only add the layer that makes it permanent....... it pays....... Fauji Foundation, DHA, the board seats..... The belief that the army holds the centre also happens to underwrite the largest business empire in the country.... Harder to reason your way out of a conclusion that signs your paycheque....

But watch the move you made in the middle. You filed common anti establishment talk next to the zionist conspiracy and called both the same coin. They are not.....

Inventing a zionist hand is conclusion first, evidence never...... Pointing at the plot allotments, the corporate arms, the post-retirement sinecures, and the high handed brutality in AJK and elsewhere is the opposite direction of travel, documented facts reasoning toward a conclusion.... One is fantasy.... The other is an audit...

And that is what we actually call out.... Not a puppet master.... The land, the impunity, the boots on people in Muzaffarabad and Pakistan at large.... We call it out regardless of whether it changes anything, because it is real whether or not it is fixable...... Your posts argue nothing corrects it, fine, but do not turn unfixable into unspeakable....

Collapsing them into "both are just motivated reasoning" is itself the most motivated move in your post........ It is how a sophisticated person dismisses evidence without answering any of it, by seating it next to the tinfoil...... You spent the whole post rightly refusing that trick, then used it once on the people making your own argument....

 

[HAIDER]

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Hard state ...

 

[Oscar]

Good frame, and motivated reasoning is the right name for it...... I would only add the layer that makes it permanent....... it pays....... Fauji Foundation, DHA, the board seats..... The belief that the army holds the centre also happens to underwrite the largest business empire in the country.... Harder to reason your way out of a conclusion that signs your paycheque....

But watch the move you made in the middle. You filed common anti establishment talk next to the zionist conspiracy and called both the same coin. They are not.....

Inventing a zionist hand is conclusion first, evidence never...... Pointing at the plot allotments, the corporate arms, the post-retirement sinecures, and the high handed brutality in AJK and elsewhere is the opposite direction of travel, documented facts reasoning toward a conclusion.... One is fantasy.... The other is an audit...

And that is what we actually call out.... Not a puppet master.... The land, the impunity, the boots on people in Muzaffarabad and Pakistan at large.... We call it out regardless of whether it changes anything, because it is real whether or not it is fixable...... Your posts argue nothing corrects it, fine, but do not turn unfixable into unspeakable....

Collapsing them into "both are just motivated reasoning" is itself the most motivated move in your post........ It is how a sophisticated person dismisses evidence without answering any of it, by seating it next to the tinfoil...... You spent the whole post rightly refusing that trick, then used it once on the people making your own argument....

You're assuming and ironically we're at the motivated reasoning aspect here.
You're assuming I bundled ALL anti-establishment talk as motivated reasoning.
That assumption invalidates the rest of your argument right there.

There is no disagreement that the paycheck is TIED to this motivated reasoning - kind of why clergy in many ways tends to exist.

Every other paragraph of yours is painting YOUR MOTIVATED REASONING Caricature on me - and then bundling me in with your perceived enemy and feeling happy about the argument that you have just railed against someone who is pro -establishment or otherwise.

 

[M. Sarmad]

You're assuming and ironically we're at the motivated reasoning aspect here.
You're assuming I bundled ALL anti-establishment talk as motivated reasoning.
That assumption invalidates the rest of your argument right there.

There is no disagreement that the paycheck is TIED to this motivated reasoning - kind of why clergy in many ways tends to exist.

Every other paragraph of yours is painting YOUR MOTIVATED REASONING Caricature on me - and then bundling me in with your perceived enemy and feeling happy about the argument that you have just railed against someone who is pro -establishment or otherwise.

You say I assumed.... Let us check the assumption against your own sentence:

"You (common anti-establishment talk) think they're running on some zionist conspiracy, which ironically is the other side of the coin in motivated reasoning."

Not the conspiracy fringe...... Common anti-establishment talk..... You took the ordinary position and tied it to the zionist conspiracy and filed both as two sides of the motivated reasoning coin.... That is the bundle.... I did not paint it on you, I read it off your post...

If you meant only the tinfoil subset, say so and we are done, I will happily agree that lot reasons backward as badly as any jurnail.... But that is not what the sentence says....

So one of us is arguing with a strawman and one of us is arguing with your parenthetical.... I am doing the second.

 

[hussain0216]

The carnage unleashed by these power drunk jurnails in AJK will haunt generations......

The mistake you've made, is the same mistake the Afghans made

They pushed Pakistan too far and Pakistan will respond, Pakistan is in no mood to back down to anyone nor be blackmailed

The Afghans commit terrorism, but in response millions of Afghans have now been thrown out of Pakistan, millions more will follow
Pakistan has already struck inside Afghanistan and now a civil war is brewing inside Afghanistan and Pakistan could facilitate it to punish the Afghans and keep them busy.


The same thing with JAAC, In their attempt to blackmail the state, they've riled up the idiots, caused needless fassad and the biggest victim will be Kashmiri and the Kashmiri cause

It's only Pakistans own hatred of India that will sustain the conflict against India for our own strategic interests

But the Kashmiri are screwed, caught between two elephants