Al - Haider VT-4 MBT - The Premier PA Ground Asset [Developments]

HIT has actually been among the better ones in that it's done a good job at indigenizing upstream inputs as much as possible.

It'll be worth seeing, but I think of all of Pakistan's SOEs, HIT and POF are the likeliest to start opening to private investment, esp for any unused or underused capacity that they're holding.
I also do not understand why our Army does not allow private partnerships to improve the RnD process for these defense products? The whole world has done it except us. They could make the process very stringent to avoid smuggling/leaks of the technologies but without private stakeholders involvement, it is very difficult to keep up with the widening economic gap between Pakistan and India.
 
I also do not understand why our Army does not allow private partnerships to improve the RnD process for these defense products? The whole world has done it except us. They could make the process very stringent to avoid smuggling/leaks of the technologies but without private stakeholders involvement, it is very difficult to keep up with the widening economic gap between Pakistan and India.
It's a lack of actual industrial planning at the top. The nat-sec leadership never trusted our scientific, industrial, and business communities. Where China had 5-year plans, or where India at least had a state-backed import-substitution play, we basically dropped the ball on industrial planning since the mid-1970s (i.e., following ZAB's nationalization).

Otherwise, if ZAB left industrials alone, we could've at least had some national champions who, albeit via monopolies and vertical integration, could efficiently manufacture our defence equipment. Not ideal, but better what what we have now (i.e., nothing).

Ideally, instead of brute nationalization, we would've enacted reforms that would turn the 22 families into 22,222 small and medium players (ala the German model).

This is the approach we should take today, i.e., incentives and credits to SMBs that manufacture upstream inputs with large-scale assembly at the SOE (e.g., NESCOM, PAC, HIT, etc) level.
 
HIT has actually been among the better ones in that it's done a good job at indigenizing upstream inputs as much as possible.

It'll be worth seeing, but I think of all of Pakistan's SOEs, HIT and POF are the likeliest to start opening to private investment, esp for any unused or underused capacity that they're holding.
They should open their own technology parks across multiple cities if they are serious with keeping HIT running... HIT has also attempted at manufacturing of trucks as well but that didn't go anywhere... They had partnered with a chinese subsidiary of daimler benz i.e North Benz.. the trucks weren't that bad and Chinese Companies have made their presence known in trucking sector BUT HIT couldn't make ingress.
It all comes down to Faujis can't run these type of institutions.. Airforce realized and made NASTP... Army will never realize considering how thick those skulls are...
 
Definitely not.


This @studsmart.
That’s unfortunate, there’s still plenty of work being done in both public and private sectors to create indigenous components for it but if there’s no buyer and no production then this will stall too. Haider shouldnt be another Al-khalid story, but with this pace it might end up as one.
 
How good are Chinese-made armored vehicles? The users have the most authority to answer that question.

Immediately after the war ended, the Thai army came to China again for large-scale procurement.

On January 11, a delegation from the Royal Thai Army, led by the head of the Army Ordnance Department, visited China North Industries Group Corporation (NORINCO). The two sides signed a follow-on contract for the purchase of more VN1 8×8 wheeled armored vehicles.
1768315982188.png
 
How good are Chinese-made armored vehicles? The users have the most authority to answer that question.

Immediately after the war ended, the Thai army came to China again for large-scale procurement.

On January 11, a delegation from the Royal Thai Army, led by the head of the Army Ordnance Department, visited China North Industries Group Corporation (NORINCO). The two sides signed a follow-on contract for the purchase of more VN1 8×8 wheeled armored vehicles.
View attachment 171991
They signed a contract for VN1 8x8 armoured vehicles and NOT THE DAMN VT-4 TANK. That's more relevant here.
 
They signed a contract for VN1 8x8 armoured vehicles and NOT THE DAMN VT-4 TANK. That's more relevant here.
The core reason for the barrel explosion of the VT-4 tank in Thailand was that the Thai Army was using the tank as a continuous-fire artillery piece.

Artillery and tanks are two different types of weapons, and their barrel manufacturing parameters are completely different.

The Thai Army recently purchased VN1 armored vehicles, which are part of a series of products. Their procurement list includes many 120mm assault gun variants of the VN1, which better suits their operational needs.

During this conflict, the Thai VT-4 tanks did not suffer complete destruction; the damage is repairable, and there is no need to purchase new tanks.
 
HIT has been a serious waste of resources since its inception. It could not produce ONE indigenous product while eating a huge chunk of the defense budget. Why has it been such a failure is anybody's guess.
And why has the government been so lenient to these state-owned loss making conglomerates? I guess we all know the reason but nobody wants to name and blame them openly.
HIT, for all its inefficiencies being a state run concern, has delivered significant value. It has, in essence, completely removed Pakistan's reliance on foreign (western specifically) land-systems and their upkeep.

The issue is one of innovation. That requires investment of knowledge, research and funding. I think all three of these areas can be improved to get better productivity out of HIT.

The upside is that all maintenance is done locally for all of our land systems (including tanks, APCs, and artillery) and the vast majority of the munitions is also manufactured in-house in collaboration between HIT and POF.
 
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HIT, for all its inefficiencies being a state run concern, has delivered significant value. It has, in essence, completely removed Pakistan's reliance on foreign (western specifically) land-systems and their upkeep.

The issue is one of innovation. That requires investment of knowledge, research and funding. I think all three of these areas can be improved to get better productivity out of HIT.

The upside is that all maintenance is done locally for all of our land systems (including tanks, APCs, and artillery) and the vast majority of the munitions is also manufactured in-house in collaboration between HIT and POF.
I know they are responsible for the upkeep of various land based systems, but the problem as you have rightly pointed out is that of innovation. That has been absolutely down the drain. Not one totally indigenous design/system. I would love to be corrected if such systems/designs do actually exist that came from HIT without collaboration with other conglomerates.
 
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@Panzerkiel
Do our tanks like the Haider , Ak-1 and the T80 UDs have Air conditioning? or sufficent air circulation to fight the hot climate of the Thar and other dessert terrains? India had a big issue with its T90 cuz they did not have the ACs thus making them tandoors lol .
Also do our Apc like talha have these?
About the T90S:
T90  AC.webp
 
@Panzerkiel
Do our tanks like the Haider , Ak-1 and the T80 UDs have Air conditioning? or sufficent air circulation to fight the hot climate of the Thar and other dessert terrains? India had a big issue with its T90 cuz they did not have the ACs thus making them tandoors lol .
Also do our Apc like talha have these?
Yes, Thai tankers especially praised the AC on the VT-4 and for us it's basically a requirement for all our tanks, as for APCs maybe @Lion can tell us
 
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@Panzerkiel
Do our tanks like the Haider , Ak-1 and the T80 UDs have Air conditioning? or sufficent air circulation to fight the hot climate of the Thar and other dessert terrains? India had a big issue with its T90 cuz they did not have the ACs thus making them tandoors lol .
Also do our Apc like talha have these?
About the T90S:
View attachment 187923
They have but I've heard that they aren't turned on
 

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