Al - Haider VT-4 MBT - The Premier PA Ground Asset [Developments]

@Panzerkiel
Do our tanks like the Haider , Ak-1 and the T80 UDs have Air conditioning? or sufficent air circulation to fight the hot climate of the Thar and other dessert terrains? India had a big issue with its T90 cuz they did not have the ACs thus making them tandoors lol .
Also do our Apc like talha have these?
About the T90S:
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Al Khalid, Al-Khalid-1 and VT4 have ACs. They can be fitted to UDs but have not been according to my knowledge, at least not to the entire fleet. Older types do not have ACs. They do have fans for Air Circulation but that’s about it.

It’s not ideal, but it is the reality. It will absolutely be a problem in the heat. The army does use some Jugaars to help cool the interiors but they’re Jugaars at the end of the day.
 
All our tanks from al khalid, t80 ud to vt4 have it. Including al zarrar.

Only type 59 in fc may not have
I do not think so. Only Al-Khalid and above. You can tell by looking at the AC Radiator on the back.

ACs in tanks are preferably run on APUs and draw quite a bit of power. Yes you can run them off the engines but tanks spend a lot of time with their engines off to conserve fuel and reduce thermal signatures.

I do not believe our APCs have AC either. Fans in the best cases.
 
I do not think so. Only Al-Khalid and above. You can tell by looking at the AC Radiator on the back.

ACs in tanks are preferably run on APUs and draw quite a bit of power. Yes you can run them off the engines but tanks spend a lot of time with their engines off to conserve fuel and reduce thermal signatures.

I do not believe our APCs have AC either. Fans in the best cases.
Years ago i checked Hit website al zarrar had it.

I didnt talk about apc though. I have no idea about apc.
 
Al Khalid, Al-Khalid-1 and VT4 have ACs. They can be fitted to UDs but have not been according to my knowledge, at least not to the entire fleet. Older types do not have ACs. They do have fans for Air Circulation but that’s about it.

It’s not ideal, but it is the reality. It will absolutely be a problem in the heat. The army does use some Jugaars to help cool the interiors but they’re Jugaars at the end of the day.
India was adopting the Kinetics ICECS which does individual cooling which VT-4s oem does not.

More importantly - for the most severe operational environment they may not do better than reducing temps by 10C max compared to more robust(if more power hungry) western/Israeli systems.
 
India was adopting the Kinetics ICECS which does individual cooling which VT-4s oem does not.

More importantly - for the most severe operational environment they may not do better than reducing temps by 10C max compared to more robust(if more power hungry) western/Israeli systems.
Correct. Even with western systems, ACs are not that effective in tanks in general, to cool down the high-heat environment inside a tank enough to make things “comfortable” requires extremely high cooling/energy output, power that can be used elsewhere. Between the computers and the engine and the gun and the hunk of metal that a tank is, the interior gets extreme warm.

M1 Abrams did not have an AC system until the M1A2 SEP. The only form of “cooling” it had was its NBC overpressure system creating airflow and being able to attach to individual crew, and even then, it was just airflow, not cooled. All Pakistani tanks have NBC overpressure and fans at each crew station but I’d hardly call it AC. The Al-Khalid and VT4 have units that cool the entire cabin, it’s a lot better than nothing, but it certainly won’t be making the interior comfortable.

As for ICECS, I do not believe the adoption rate is very high in the Indian army despite repeated attempts.
 
Correct. Even with western systems, ACs are not that effective in tanks in general, to cool down the high-heat environment inside a tank enough to make things “comfortable” requires extremely high cooling/energy output, power that can be used elsewhere. Between the computers and the engine and the gun and the hunk of metal that a tank is, the interior gets extreme warm.

M1 Abrams did not have an AC system until the M1A2 SEP. The only form of “cooling” it had was its NBC overpressure system creating airflow and being able to attach to individual crew, and even then, it was just airflow, not cooled. All Pakistani tanks have NBC overpressure and fans at each crew station but I’d hardly call it AC. The Al-Khalid and VT4 have units that cool the entire cabin, it’s a lot better than nothing, but it certainly won’t be making the interior comfortable.

As for ICECS, I do not believe the adoption rate is very high in the Indian army despite repeated attempts.
Which also brings the issue of power consumption - which of these can effectively run off the battery or needs power on to work.
Considering that the latest hybrid systems are purely talking to IR “silence” and being able to sit for hours on electric power alone perhaps a future state for hybrid power exists within PA.
 
ICECS outside israel is not common. Not even m1a2. Vt4 has hvac ac system. Alkhalid 1 has good cooling system as well as apu system. Ak1 upgrade had this is one of its objective.

I know this because a knowledgeable acquaintance mentioned it.

Also vt4 was bought because of this reason. Firepower and protection was ofcourse part of interest as well.

Alkhalid has ac system but has to keep engine on due to no apu or limited.

My knowledge is limited but I know about these tanks that they have some comfort over some indian tanks.

T90 being their main tank has some of them being upgraded with it.
 
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ICECS outside israel is not common. Not even m1a2. Vt4 has hvac ac system. Alkhalid 1 has good cooling system as well as apu system. Ak1 upgrade had this is one of its objective.

I know this because a knowledgeable acquaintance mentioned it.

Also vt4 was bought because of this reason. Firepower and protection was ofcourse part of interest as well.

Alkhalid has ac system but has to keep engine on due to no apu or limited.

My knowledge is limited but I know about these tanks that they have some comfort over some indian tanks.

T90 being their main tank has some of them being upgraded with it.
AFAIK their T-90S are a smorgasbord of a mess in terms of what has what and overall upgrade cycles unless @Lion or anyone else knows better
 
ICECS outside israel is not common. Not even m1a2. Vt4 has hvac ac system. Alkhalid 1 has good cooling system as well as apu system. Ak1 upgrade had this is one of its objective.

I know this because a knowledgeable acquaintance mentioned it.

Also vt4 was bought because of this reason. Firepower and protection was ofcourse part of interest as well.

Alkhalid has ac system but has to keep engine on due to no apu or limited.

My knowledge is limited but I know about these tanks that they have some comfort over some indian tanks.

T90 being their main tank has some of them being upgraded with it.
Al Khalid was tested with several different APUs, including Chinese and South Korean.

Base Al-Khalid always had an option for APU (and it did have them in service as well), so does Al-Khalid-1. They can run the AC without engine (technically), but the power draw is pretry big and hence the APU charge won’t last, particularly in the older models.
 
AFAIK their T-90S are a smorgasbord of a mess in terms of what has what and overall upgrade cycles unless @Lion or anyone else knows better
Correct, Indian T90 fleet is a mess, I have tried really hard to catalogue it but havent been successful so far. To the best of my knowledge it goes as follows:

As delivered, india has three variants of T90 which it internally calls MK.1,2,3. The Bhisma designation started with the second batch of MK1.

First order was of 310 tanks (T90S or MK.1) in 2001, of which 42 were from Russian stocks and were basically Base T90 (cast turrets) and the rest were T90S. A second order of 330 T90S (MK.1 for India) was placed in 2006. These Came without Any thermal sights at all, nor any AC, and 3BM17 Ammunition. This is 640 tanks.

Then there were two orders of T90S MK.2 starting with 347 tanks in 2008 and 354 more in 2012. These were meant to be upgraded over the MK.1 but I cannot figure out what the major upgrades were given they still didn’t come with Gunner thermals (or perhaps they did and the sources just don’t mention it) or ACs or new Ammo. There might have been minor upgrades to the armor and interior. This is 1341 tanks.

India launched a program to install gunner thermals on T90S in 2016 (either both MK1 & 2, or only MK1 If MK2 already came with it) reports suggest the entire fleet was outfitted by 2022-23 but it is possible some are awaiting even this upgrade. They started another program to install commanders thermals on around 960~ of the fleet in 2022, I’m yet to see an Indian T90S (MK.1 or 2) upgraded with commanders thermals in 2026.

They first attempted to install ACs in their T90S in 2008 but the project didn’t go anywhere, they tried again in 2014 and failed again, at present some of their fleet has ACs and some still don’t.

They started buying 3BM42 Mango APFSDS in 2015 (Pakistan had the same/equivalent ammo in the 90s and was producing it by 2001) And local production of the ammunition started in 2024, it is still not standardized but should be soon now that local production is being established.

finally, they placed an order for 464 T90 MK.3 Tanks in 2019 (first 10 were delivered in 2024 and to continue till 2029). These came from the factory with ACs, thermal sights for both commander and gunner, digital fire control computers and a bunch of other upgrades, but they’re still not close to the Russian T90Ms. This makes a total of 1800~ T90 tanks with various different levels of upgrades.

There were a bunch of other things they tried with engines and ammunition and APS systems and armor and fire control computers along the way which I have left out, I’m sure some of these upgrades also ended up on some of their tanks, but I’ll have to do a lot of reading to come up with exact or at Least somewhat accurate figures, though I believe it can be done with enough sleuthing around the Indian web.
 
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So Norinco is blaming it on the Thai soldiers for improper maintenance of the gun barrels for the explosion while the crew members of the same tank aren't ready to accept that.
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This is the tank that got damaged and the crew sustained injuries.
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