Al - Haider VT-4 MBT - The Premier PA Ground Asset [Developments]

[prothought]

That's correct. Oplot was tested but follow up copies with improvements/tests never happened as expected/planned.
keeping in mind Ukraine condition, we did dodge a bullet minus the engine TOT which would have been a great help

I think @Lion has mentioned it multiple times in the past that even the TU80/AK/Oplot engine sucks when it comes to torque conversion.

Just mentioning that VT-4 engine reportedly proved to be much more powerful in those trials (especially up the hill maneuvers where both Oplot and AK failed). Please correct me if I am mistaken.

If anything, I think, Pakistan should strive for ToT for that Chinese engine .

 

[KingQamaR]

I think T84 Oplot too was tested with VT-4 during extensive trials. Even AK performed better that T84 Oplot. But VT-4 appeared as a separate class of its own in those trials.

The t-84 is nothing more than a glorified T-80b, the "upgrades" adds nothing significant to the old SOVIET tank, Ukraine didn't even try to solve the basic issues of the T-80. The new Russian T80BVM is far superior. Some Military analysts say the new Russian T80BVM IS par with their western tanks .

 

[KingQamaR]

Pakistan army has it upgraded its large fleet of t80ud to t 84 oplot standard ? as t84OPLOT is based on t 80 tank really made no sense for PAK land Forces buying theT84 just upgrade your T80s. Cyprus is rumoured to be mothballing its T80 fleet ? To western tanks. Cyprus will sell T80s!

 

[KingQamaR]

I think T84 Oplot too was tested with VT-4 during extensive trials. Even AK performed better that T84 Oplot. But VT-4 appeared as a separate class of its own in those trials.

According to Military analysts technically VT-4 is much better than T-90 because of engine, auto transmission, stabiliser, computer, sensors, spot turn and many more that T-90 has not. Only thing is Vt-4 has not seen any action yet? Stats are all very good but we have to wait and see how VT-4 performs in real life fights.

 

[Signalian]

That makes both vulnerable to FPV drone attacks. I hope HIT/PA is working on UGVs, ATVs, off-road bikes and some concepts of driverless systems though I haven't come across any.

Balochistan and KP can be good proving grounds for self-driving systems and tactics around them; losing a driverless patrol dala to a roadside IED is relatively low-cost over the current norm of dealing with frequent casualties.

Both protect each other. MBTs and other heavy equipment like APC etc have sensors (longer ranges, multiple sensors) that infantry cannot carry always. Whereas Infantry has more number of weapons than the cannon of the MBT, its .05 cal and 7.62mm gun. Therefore MBTs or IFV or APC communicates with infantry, which then takes out the drones approaching at the MBTs or within their own vicinity.

Thats is why MBTs operating alone o their own is what we see in Ukraine war ad then they are hunted with 2,3 drones and blown up.

 

[Signalian]

Bro Armored cores support infantry to move ahead.

and vice versa.

This is why 6th armored is supported by 17th and 37th Infantry. The 1st Armored is supported by 14th or 40th infantry.

 

[Signalian]

According to Military analysts technically VT-4 is much better than T-90 because of engine, auto transmission, stabiliser, computer, sensors, spot turn and many more that T-90 has not. Only thing is Vt-4 has not seen any action yet? Stats are all very good but we have to wait and see how VT-4 performs in real life fights.

Let me give you a simple example how to make any weapon system far more lethal than its adversaries of the same or modern generation. Dont buy a new one, improve the current one.

Deploy a VT4 in a exercise.
Let the tank commander run it around with other weapon systems based on the plans and execution of the EX. The VT4 crew completes its objectives at the end of the day. Now the processor with memory in the MBT has been learning (ML) all day:
1. Human crew and their decisions
2. Input from IBMS
3. Input from comms (including sensors)
4. Limitations of mechanical systems
5. Ammunition handling and firing through auto loader.
and other related factors.

This VT4's AI processor (machine language) with its memory has learnt (Deep learning). The MBT is now intelligent than it was yesterday.

Second day:
VT4 tank commander now allows suggestions (DL) from MBT for better maneuvering and lethality, which the MBT;s AI processor produces within seconds, with help from live data on 2nd day. This allows more survivability (as it assesses threats towards itself) of the VT4 and completing the Exercise in faster time than when it was only operated by human crew's decisions.

Third Day:
Now, the tank commander gives some leverage for autonomous operational capability of the MBT. The MBT has learnt in past two days, that's 48 hours, not 20-36 hours (excluding sleep) which is the limitation for tank crew coupled with fatigue which affects decision making. The VT4 does NOT wait for the tank commander inputs for all operations. The VT4 performs better than the first 2 days in the exercise.

Fourth Day:
The TC gives 100% autonomy to the MBT for all decisions. The MBT operates in the way that it kills faster, moves in calculations of displacement saving filters for longer life saving hours on engine maintenance shortening downtime while maximizing engine output in various terrains, cues and assesses targets beforehand through live comms/intel/datalink and assorts ammo for firing, and also helps other MBTs complete their missions in faster time by communicating with them.

In all this, crew remains fresh (no exhaustion, more time to process incoming data), only to take controls when the TC assigns control back to himself.

This makes the MBT more lethal, while it was never upgraded mechanically with add ons or bigger gun or more ammo or newer engine.

 

[Michael]

So now basically Russians they made new T80BVM so they are now even better than INDIAN and Chinese modern tanks. mean the T80BVM is literally superior in every way to T90s tanks so this is just a plus

We are already dealing with "fourth-generation main battle tanks" now. Please don't try to stir up a confrontation with your outdated, backward thinking!

 

[Maarkhoor]

and vice versa.

This is why 6th armored is supported by 17th and 37th Infantry. The 1st Armored is supported by 14th or 40th infantry.

Exactly, bro. Armored units provide firepower, protection, and mobility, while infantry supports them by securing terrain, clearing enemy positions, and protecting against anti-tank threats. The coordination works both ways, and combined-arms cooperation is what makes the formation effective.

 

[KingQamaR]

Let me give you a simple example how to make any weapon system far more lethal than its adversaries of the same or modern generation. Dont buy a new one, improve the current one.

Deploy a VT4 in a exercise.
Let the tank commander run it around with other weapon systems based on the plans and execution of the EX. The VT4 crew completes its objectives at the end of the day. Now the processor with memory in the MBT has been learning (ML) all day:
1. Human crew and their decisions
2. Input from IBMS
3. Input from comms (including sensors)
4. Limitations of mechanical systems
5. Ammunition handling and firing through auto loader.
and other related factors.

This VT4's AI processor (machine language) with its memory has learnt (Deep learning). The MBT is now intelligent than it was yesterday.

Second day:
VT4 tank commander now allows suggestions (DL) from MBT for better maneuvering and lethality, which the MBT;s AI processor produces within seconds, with help from live data on 2nd day. This allows more survivability (as it assesses threats towards itself) of the VT4 and completing the Exercise in faster time than when it was only operated by human crew's decisions.

Third Day:
Now, the tank commander gives some leverage for autonomous operational capability of the MBT. The MBT has learnt in past two days, that's 48 hours, not 20-36 hours (excluding sleep) which is the limitation for tank crew coupled with fatigue which affects decision making. The VT4 does NOT wait for the tank commander inputs for all operations. The VT4 performs better than the first 2 days in the exercise.

Fourth Day:
The TC gives 100% autonomy to the MBT for all decisions. The MBT operates in the way that it kills faster, moves in calculations of displacement saving filters for longer life saving hours on engine maintenance shortening downtime while maximizing engine output in various terrains, cues and assesses targets beforehand through live comms/intel/datalink and assorts ammo for firing, and also helps other MBTs complete their missions in faster time by communicating with them.

In all this, crew remains fresh (no exhaustion, more time to process incoming data), only to take controls when the TC assigns control back to himself.

This makes the MBT more lethal, while it was never upgraded mechanically with add ons or bigger gun or more ammo or newer engine.

So brother what you are saying is Chinese engineers just discovered that it’s not necessary to send a tank to deal with another tank. You just need a tank to get in there, live long enough to get a vision of their tank and let Drones and artillery to do the job. Sounds like a datalink chain of various military weapons on the ground working together.

 

[prothought]

Let me give you a simple example how to make any weapon system far more lethal than its adversaries of the same or modern generation. Dont buy a new one, improve the current one.

Deploy a VT4 in a exercise.
Let the tank commander run it around with other weapon systems based on the plans and execution of the EX. The VT4 crew completes its objectives at the end of the day. Now the processor with memory in the MBT has been learning (ML) all day:
1. Human crew and their decisions
2. Input from IBMS
3. Input from comms (including sensors)
4. Limitations of mechanical systems
5. Ammunition handling and firing through auto loader.
and other related factors.

This VT4's AI processor (machine language) with its memory has learnt (Deep learning). The MBT is now intelligent than it was yesterday.

Second day:
VT4 tank commander now allows suggestions (DL) from MBT for better maneuvering and lethality, which the MBT;s AI processor produces within seconds, with help from live data on 2nd day. This allows more survivability (as it assesses threats towards itself) of the VT4 and completing the Exercise in faster time than when it was only operated by human crew's decisions.

Third Day:
Now, the tank commander gives some leverage for autonomous operational capability of the MBT. The MBT has learnt in past two days, that's 48 hours, not 20-36 hours (excluding sleep) which is the limitation for tank crew coupled with fatigue which affects decision making. The VT4 does NOT wait for the tank commander inputs for all operations. The VT4 performs better than the first 2 days in the exercise.

Fourth Day:
The TC gives 100% autonomy to the MBT for all decisions. The MBT operates in the way that it kills faster, moves in calculations of displacement saving filters for longer life saving hours on engine maintenance shortening downtime while maximizing engine output in various terrains, cues and assesses targets beforehand through live comms/intel/datalink and assorts ammo for firing, and also helps other MBTs complete their missions in faster time by communicating with them.

In all this, crew remains fresh (no exhaustion, more time to process incoming data), only to take controls when the TC assigns control back to himself.

This makes the MBT more lethal, while it was never upgraded mechanically with add ons or bigger gun or more ammo or newer engine.

Good post.
I would call First Phase, Second Phase, and so on rather than First Day, Second Day, etc.

These phases are completed during the peace time by using many tanks in simulated environment. Finally, an AI model is produced that captures all the intelligence that was used/exhibited during the exercise. The AI model is then installed on all tanks so that every tank could independently assist the commander in taking the most appropriate decisions extremely quickly.

I am sure military experts must be already working on this kind of R&D work.

 

[Signalian]

So brother what you are saying is Chinese engineers just discovered that it’s not necessary to send a tank to deal with another tank. You just need a tank to get in there, live long enough to get a vision of their tank and let Drones and artillery to do the job. Sounds like a datalink chain of various military weapons on the ground working together.

Something like that.

 

[Signalian]

Good post.
I would call First Phase, Second Phase, and so on rather than First Day, Second Day, etc.

These phases are completed during the peace time by using many tanks in simulated environment. Finally, an AI model is produced that captures all the intelligence that was used/exhibited during the exercise. The AI model is then installed on all tanks so that every tank could independently assist the commander in taking the most appropriate decisions extremely quickly.

I am sure military experts must be already working on this kind of R&D work.

Yes. Correct. Thats what i am trying to tell.