SABRE
Registered Member
Sounds like the Soviet/Russian model, with separated design/R&D and production bureaus for aircraft development.
AMCA News and Discussion
- Thread starter Indos
- Start date
onlinpunit
Trusted Member
Relic of our Soviet Inspired Socialist Model..!
CallSignMaverick
Registered Member
HAL has it's own design board and they've designed a lot of products, but not fighter jets. All Indian helicopters are HAL's own design.
CallSignMaverick
Registered Member
Oscar
Moderator
Pictures is all you will have - as I keep telling you folks - your problem is not money or technology.
CallSignMaverick
Registered Member
What has L1 or salaries of engineers got to do with this? 65k/month is nearly thrice of India's per capita income, and they get other secondary perks of being a state employee that private sector folks sweat their lives out to get in India. He himself is a "civil servant", who like all generals have a lot to say after retirement but did nothing much when in charge.
And, he isn't up to date either.
While his numbers are also wrong
Last edited:
Anonymous1994
Registered Member
India Insists on 120kN AMCA Engine Full IPR with Safran: A Shift Toward True Sovereignty in Jet Engine
The Indian Ministry of Defence has adopted a non-negotiable stance in its negotiations with Safran for the development of a 120kN engine for the AMCA Mk2. Moving away from the traditional "licensed production" model seen in the GE-F414 deal, New Delhi is demanding 100% Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and full design authority.
Key highlights of the proposal include:
Read the full analysis here: Indian Defence Ministry Stresses on Full IPR Ownership of 120kN AMCA Engine under Non-Negotiable Terms for GTRE-Safran Deal
The Indian Ministry of Defence has adopted a non-negotiable stance in its negotiations with Safran for the development of a 120kN engine for the AMCA Mk2. Moving away from the traditional "licensed production" model seen in the GE-F414 deal, New Delhi is demanding 100% Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and full design authority.
Key highlights of the proposal include:
- Strategic Autonomy: India seeks "Export Sovereignty" to sell the engine to third parties without foreign vetoes.
- Technical Mastery: Focus on mastering "hot-section" technologies, including single-crystal blades and advanced cooling channels.
- No Derivative Rights: Safran would be barred from using AMCA-funded breakthroughs in its other commercial or military projects.
- Plug-and-Play Design: The engine is being designed with dimensional compatibility to the GE-F414, allowing future integration into the Tejas Mk2 and TEDBF without structural redesigns.
Read the full analysis here: Indian Defence Ministry Stresses on Full IPR Ownership of 120kN AMCA Engine under Non-Negotiable Terms for GTRE-Safran Deal
Oscar
Moderator
You have shot a tangent but not really answered the question. Per capita is irrelevant - you are not getting too talent at that rate. Plain and simple - you are getting medicore rubber stampers because top talent has a lot of much better salaried positions available with MNCs.
onlinpunit
Trusted Member
Public sector companies with their rigid pay structure and Time Bound promotion schemes can't hire top line talent.
CallSignMaverick
Registered Member
Again, someone making ₹13 LPA with just a masters and 3 years exp is anything but low. And this is in hand income, not CTC which MNCs sell to its employees, half of whom are diversity hires here anyway. These roles are on contractual basis for 3 years, one can guess what critical projects they must really be working in. The ones that do for sure earn a lot more apart from retirement benefits and other perks. And MNCs don't have much opportunities for core engineers. Bulk of it is still software, finance, consulting.
Unless you provide the salary slip of an actual ADA engineer who is actually involved in the project, your argument stands null and void. Yes, ADA isn't able to get the best in India but certainly aren't hiring rubber stampers without due hiring procedures and interviews.
ADA isn't even involved in the entire AMCA project alone, theres hundreds of labs and private firms working on it's LRUs. They design aircrafts, they don't build everything that goes inside. Used to hear same kind of tropes when CY-2 landing mission was unsuccessful back then, but somehow same rubber stampers managed to land on lunar south pole, and are now close to bringing lunar samples and landing on Mars
And that's exactly how you've once again shot yourself in the knee,,, SAFRAN will never respond to this clause or just sneak older technology that is therefore irrelevant for all its other civil and military projects.
Indos
INT'L MOD
- Thread starter
- #343
India's AMCA 5th-Gen Fighter Enters Crucial 24-Month Detail Design Phase Ahead of 2028 Prototype
Written by Raghav Patel
As of April 2026, India's ambitious fifth-generation fighter jet project, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), has moved into its most vital engineering stage.
Following the Cabinet Committee on Security's (CCS) approval of Rs 15,000 crore for Full-Scale Engineering Development (FSED) in March 2024, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) is now aggressively focusing on making the aircraft ready for actual manufacturing.
The project has advanced far beyond early digital sketches and basic concepts.
Currently, engineers are immersed in the highly detailed, complex work required to transform a state-of-the-art stealth fighter from a computer blueprint into a real, flying machine that will eventually form the backbone of the Indian Air Force alongside existing platforms like the Su-30MKI.
The core of this current progress is a critical 24-month phase known as Systems Installation Detail Design (SIDD).
This step involves creating an incredibly precise "digital twin" of the aircraft and is considered the hardest part of the engineering journey.
Because a fifth-generation jet like the AMCA relies heavily on its stealth profile to evade enemy radar, the internal space is heavily restricted.
Engineers must figure out how to pack thousands of complex parts into this tight airframe without ruining the aircraft's aerodynamic performance, its structural strength, or its stealth capabilities.
A major part of the SIDD phase is fine-tuning the 3D layout to ensure no parts collide or interfere with one another.
Unlike older aircraft, the AMCA carries its weapons inside a concealed 1,500 kg capacity internal weapons bay to maintain a low radar signature.
It also features specially curved "serpentine" air intakes to hide the engine blades from enemy sensors.
Because of these unique stealth features, every single internal system—from the powerful indigenous active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar to the cooling units—must be placed with microscopic accuracy.
Even the smallest error in placement right now could lead to massive delays and expensive corrections once actual production begins.
Another essential task is designing the brackets and mounts that will hold the aircraft's crucial electronic components, known as Line Replaceable Units (LRUs).
These are not standard brackets; they must be strong enough to withstand the intense gravity (G) forces of combat flying, absorb heavy vibrations, and keep sensitive flight systems perfectly aligned.
Furthermore, in a stealth fighter, the shape and location of even these small internal mounts can affect how the aircraft handles electromagnetic waves, turning a simple structural job into a complex stealth engineering problem.
Figuring out how to route the complex network of wiring, fuel lines from the massive 5-tonne internal tank, and hydraulic pipes is yet another major hurdle.
This intricate web must be carefully threaded through an airframe that has been shaped specifically for stealth.
The aircraft's internal weapons bay and curved engine intakes make finding a clear path for wires and pipes incredibly difficult.
The design team must guarantee that these pathways do not weaken the aircraft, create overheating issues, or make it impossible for mechanics to repair the jet later, all while ensuring nothing accidentally increases the jet's visibility on enemy radar.
The schedule for this engineering phase is extremely strict and vital to the project's overall success.
This 24-month effort will directly decide when the ADA can start ordering major components that take a long time to build, such as the imported GE F414 engines planned for the initial AMCA Mk1 variant, as well as specialized structural composites.
If the final blueprints are not finished by 2028, it will cause an immediate delay in unveiling the very first prototype, which is currently expected to roll out in late 2028 or early 2029. Therefore, completing this detailed design phase on time is the ultimate gatekeeper for the entire fighter program.
Looking beyond the technical achievements, this phase marks a major change in how India manages top-tier aerospace projects.
Instead of relying entirely on state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), the ADA is handing out specific design tasks—like planning the wiring routes and designing the brackets—to private companies.
This includes smaller businesses (MSMEs) in tech hubs like Bengaluru, as well as large defence industry giants like Tata and Larsen & Toubro.
By dividing the work, multiple teams can operate at the same time.
This allows the ADA to focus on its specialties, such as writing flight control software and perfecting the stealth shape, while the private sector handles the mechanical details.
This strategy is a deliberate move to build up India's private defence industry, aligning with the government's broader push for self-reliance.
By involving private companies right from the design stage, India is preparing the ground to manufacture an estimated initial requirement of over 120 AMCA fighters in the future.
This ensures that the factories and supply chains needed for mass production, which is targeted to begin around 2035, are being built at the same time as the aircraft itself, rather than waiting until the prototype is validated.
The entire operation is supported by highly advanced digital Product Lifecycle Management (PLM) software.
The incredibly detailed 3D computer models currently being created will be sent directly to the factory floors of HAL and private defence contractors.
Keeping everything on a single continuous digital system prevents mistakes from happening when blueprints are handed over to the manufacturing teams. In the past, these types of translation errors have caused massive delays and budget increases in global aerospace projects.
While finishing a set of engineering drawings does not generate the same public excitement as seeing a new fighter jet take off for the first time, this current phase is arguably the most important turning point for the AMCA.
History shows that for most advanced stealth fighter programs around the world, the leap from a good idea to a set of perfect, ready-to-build engineering plans is where the biggest and most difficult challenges lie.
India's AMCA 5th-Gen Fighter Enters Crucial 24-Month Detail Design Phase Ahead of 2028 Prototype
As of April 2026, India's ambitious fifth-generation fighter jet project, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), has moved into its most vital engineering stage. Following the Cabinet...
defence.in
India's AMCA 5th-Gen Fighter Enters Crucial 24-Month Detail Design Phase Ahead of 2028 Prototype
Written by Raghav Patel
As of April 2026, India's ambitious fifth-generation fighter jet project, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), has moved into its most vital engineering stage.
Following the Cabinet Committee on Security's (CCS) approval of Rs 15,000 crore for Full-Scale Engineering Development (FSED) in March 2024, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) is now aggressively focusing on making the aircraft ready for actual manufacturing.
The project has advanced far beyond early digital sketches and basic concepts.
Currently, engineers are immersed in the highly detailed, complex work required to transform a state-of-the-art stealth fighter from a computer blueprint into a real, flying machine that will eventually form the backbone of the Indian Air Force alongside existing platforms like the Su-30MKI.
The core of this current progress is a critical 24-month phase known as Systems Installation Detail Design (SIDD).
This step involves creating an incredibly precise "digital twin" of the aircraft and is considered the hardest part of the engineering journey.
Because a fifth-generation jet like the AMCA relies heavily on its stealth profile to evade enemy radar, the internal space is heavily restricted.
Engineers must figure out how to pack thousands of complex parts into this tight airframe without ruining the aircraft's aerodynamic performance, its structural strength, or its stealth capabilities.
A major part of the SIDD phase is fine-tuning the 3D layout to ensure no parts collide or interfere with one another.
Unlike older aircraft, the AMCA carries its weapons inside a concealed 1,500 kg capacity internal weapons bay to maintain a low radar signature.
It also features specially curved "serpentine" air intakes to hide the engine blades from enemy sensors.
Because of these unique stealth features, every single internal system—from the powerful indigenous active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar to the cooling units—must be placed with microscopic accuracy.
Even the smallest error in placement right now could lead to massive delays and expensive corrections once actual production begins.
Another essential task is designing the brackets and mounts that will hold the aircraft's crucial electronic components, known as Line Replaceable Units (LRUs).
These are not standard brackets; they must be strong enough to withstand the intense gravity (G) forces of combat flying, absorb heavy vibrations, and keep sensitive flight systems perfectly aligned.
Furthermore, in a stealth fighter, the shape and location of even these small internal mounts can affect how the aircraft handles electromagnetic waves, turning a simple structural job into a complex stealth engineering problem.
Figuring out how to route the complex network of wiring, fuel lines from the massive 5-tonne internal tank, and hydraulic pipes is yet another major hurdle.
This intricate web must be carefully threaded through an airframe that has been shaped specifically for stealth.
The aircraft's internal weapons bay and curved engine intakes make finding a clear path for wires and pipes incredibly difficult.
The design team must guarantee that these pathways do not weaken the aircraft, create overheating issues, or make it impossible for mechanics to repair the jet later, all while ensuring nothing accidentally increases the jet's visibility on enemy radar.
The schedule for this engineering phase is extremely strict and vital to the project's overall success.
This 24-month effort will directly decide when the ADA can start ordering major components that take a long time to build, such as the imported GE F414 engines planned for the initial AMCA Mk1 variant, as well as specialized structural composites.
If the final blueprints are not finished by 2028, it will cause an immediate delay in unveiling the very first prototype, which is currently expected to roll out in late 2028 or early 2029. Therefore, completing this detailed design phase on time is the ultimate gatekeeper for the entire fighter program.
Looking beyond the technical achievements, this phase marks a major change in how India manages top-tier aerospace projects.
Instead of relying entirely on state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), the ADA is handing out specific design tasks—like planning the wiring routes and designing the brackets—to private companies.
This includes smaller businesses (MSMEs) in tech hubs like Bengaluru, as well as large defence industry giants like Tata and Larsen & Toubro.
By dividing the work, multiple teams can operate at the same time.
This allows the ADA to focus on its specialties, such as writing flight control software and perfecting the stealth shape, while the private sector handles the mechanical details.
This strategy is a deliberate move to build up India's private defence industry, aligning with the government's broader push for self-reliance.
By involving private companies right from the design stage, India is preparing the ground to manufacture an estimated initial requirement of over 120 AMCA fighters in the future.
This ensures that the factories and supply chains needed for mass production, which is targeted to begin around 2035, are being built at the same time as the aircraft itself, rather than waiting until the prototype is validated.
The entire operation is supported by highly advanced digital Product Lifecycle Management (PLM) software.
The incredibly detailed 3D computer models currently being created will be sent directly to the factory floors of HAL and private defence contractors.
Keeping everything on a single continuous digital system prevents mistakes from happening when blueprints are handed over to the manufacturing teams. In the past, these types of translation errors have caused massive delays and budget increases in global aerospace projects.
While finishing a set of engineering drawings does not generate the same public excitement as seeing a new fighter jet take off for the first time, this current phase is arguably the most important turning point for the AMCA.
History shows that for most advanced stealth fighter programs around the world, the leap from a good idea to a set of perfect, ready-to-build engineering plans is where the biggest and most difficult challenges lie.
India's AMCA 5th-Gen Fighter Enters Crucial 24-Month Detail Design Phase Ahead of 2028 Prototype
As of April 2026, India's ambitious fifth-generation fighter jet project, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), has moved into its most vital engineering stage. Following the Cabinet...
Wait! So now in 2026 they begin with the fine-tuning and as such finalising the design until mid-2028 and then? I thought in 2028 this thing should already be ready?
Well, if they finished the design until then - and we all know how likely this will invest delays - it will surely take another few years more … we won‘t see this damn thing needier 2030/32.
Michael
VIP Member
The French do not seem to have learned how to do business with Indians yet. In this regard, they should take a good lesson from the Russians!
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