AMCA vs KAAN vs KF-21 India Turkey & Korea’s Fighter Jets Battle For Air Supremacy—Who Leads The Pack? OP-ED

[Pakistan Space Agency]

... The AMCA programme, originally launched in 2010 as a 20-tonne class fighter, is now a 25-tonne class fighter.

The design work was completed in 2023, and approval for the ₹15,000 crore (US$1.8 billion) project for prototype development was received from CCS in March 2024. ...

It's taken India 13-years just to design the aircraft?

 

[Vikramaditya1]

This would be valid, anywhere in the world, but India. You could have the industries of China, but your incompetence and corruption, one way, or the other would cockblock it.

Did you hear about the PC7MK2?
Or even, the comedy show that was the DRDO AIP saga lol... So many examples of your dim wittedness.

How? India is a service sector based economy. Our largest corporations are banking, IT, Pharma, Oil. It's only recently we forayed into manufacturing to scale. The results are for everyone to see, the machinery and electronics (engineering) export sector grew 40%. It's going to foreshadow refined petroleum and products soon.

What export numbers? I can list Indian high tech exports on one hand.

Indian def export growth is 12% around $3 billion. Very rookie numbers but it's growing.

Runways-expected to take damage, repaired in 3 hours.

I remember a Notam that went for months. Surely in 3 hours wasn't enough, also what was Sqn ldr doing on a runway? Makes you wonder how high ranking officials lost their life.

 

[harpy1]

Listen building and

 

[Michael]

My ranking:
1st, KAAN, not a PPT, with a built-in magazine.
2nd, KF-21, not PPT.
3rd, AMCA, nice PPT.

I disagree with your ranking.

Current Status:

1st, KF-21, roughly at the level of a "4.75th Gen fighter"
South Korea's electronics industry is very developed, which brings huge advantages to the KF-21's avionics capabilities. At the same time, South Korea is very willing to submit to the United States and they are not short of funds, so it is very easy for it to obtain a large amount of technology from the United States.

2nd, KAAN, roughly at the level of a "4.25th Gen fighter"
Turkey lacks an advanced electronics industry, nor does it possess the necessary in-depth industrial capabilities. They only possess limited assembly capabilities. The KAAN mimics a fifth-generation fighter aircraft in appearance, but its internal assembly is only comparable to that of a fourth-generation fighter aircraft (though, of course, they boast that the KAAN is a highly advanced fifth-generation fighter).

3rd, AMCA, roughly at the level of "universe-invincible" (on PPT)
Universe-invincible. Earthlings dare not comment.

Future Developments:

1st, KF-21.
It is expected to reach standard fifth-generation fighter standards and begin mass production around 2030. However, the US will not allow it to threaten the F-35's position. Therefore, I estimate its production rate will be severely limited. (This depends on the outcome of the Sino-US rivalry. If the US loses ground, KF-21 production will accelerate; otherwise, its development will be restricted.)

2nd, KAAN.
The current version (most components are imported). Depending on the international situation, mass production could begin as early as 2035.
The target version (all domestic components). Given Turkey's actual industrial development, this possibility is zero.
The shell version (ostensibly domestic components, but actually OEM imported components). Depending on the international situation, mass production could begin as early as 2050.

3rd, AMCA.
In a dream!

 

[MH.Yang]

I disagree with your ranking.

Current Status:

1st, KF-21, roughly at the level of a "4.75th Gen fighter"
South Korea's electronics industry is very developed, which brings huge advantages to the KF-21's avionics capabilities. At the same time, South Korea is very willing to submit to the United States and they are not short of funds, so it is very easy for it to obtain a large amount of technology from the United States.

2nd, KAAN, roughly at the level of a "4.25th Gen fighter"
Turkey lacks an advanced electronics industry, nor does it possess the necessary in-depth industrial capabilities. They only possess limited assembly capabilities. The KAAN mimics a fifth-generation fighter aircraft in appearance, but its internal assembly is only comparable to that of a fourth-generation fighter aircraft (though, of course, they boast that the KAAN is a highly advanced fifth-generation fighter).

3rd, AMCA, roughly at the level of "universe-invincible" (on PPT)
Universe-invincible. Earthlings dare not comment.

Future Developments:

1st, KF-21.
It is expected to reach standard fifth-generation fighter standards and begin mass production around 2030. However, the US will not allow it to threaten the F-35's position. Therefore, I estimate its production rate will be severely limited. (This depends on the outcome of the Sino-US rivalry. If the US loses ground, KF-21 production will accelerate; otherwise, its development will be restricted.)

2nd, KAAN.
The current version (most components are imported). Depending on the international situation, mass production could begin as early as 2035.
The target version (all domestic components). Given Turkey's actual industrial development, this possibility is zero.
The shell version (ostensibly domestic components, but actually OEM imported components). Depending on the international situation, mass production could begin as early as 2050.

3rd, AMCA.
In a dream!

My opinion is that Turkey will compromise on the engine of KAAN, choose EJ200, in exchange for the early service of KAAN. Because of the growing threat of Israel to Turkey, Turkey has no time to wait.

As for KF-21, my opinion is that its future is suppressed by the United States like FA-50, and it will not have much prospects. Regardless of whether the US will decline, the US will suppress the KF-21.

As for their current performance, it doesn't really matter. They actually don't have stealth capabilities now. What really needs to be compared is their future.

 

[Indos]

My opinion is that Turkey will compromise on the engine of KAAN, choose EJ200, in exchange for the early service of KAAN. Because of the growing threat of Israel to Turkey, Turkey has no time to wait.

As for KF-21, my opinion is that its future is suppressed by the United States like FA-50, and it will not have much prospects.

As for their current performance, it doesn't really matter. They actually don't have stealth capabilities now. What really needs to be compared is their future.

EJ 200 is different engine design with current Kaan design. EJ200 is more similar to F414 that power KF21.

 

[MH.Yang]

EJ 200 is different engine design with current Kaan design. EJ200 is more similar to F414 that power KF21.

That's why I say the Turks need to compromise. They can't find a proper engine anywhere, and a modified design for the EJ200 is the only way.

Turkey is willing to pay a unit price of 400 million pounds for the EF-2000 now. With such a high price, it is still an interceptor, the pressure on Turkey must be very high now.

Look at the Middle East, every country is going crazy with military build-up. Turkey can't wait.

 

[Indos]

My opinion is that Turkey will compromise on the engine of KAAN, choose EJ200, in exchange for the early service of KAAN. Because of the growing threat of Israel to Turkey, Turkey has no time to wait.

As for KF-21, my opinion is that its future is suppressed by the United States like FA-50, and it will not have much prospects. Regardless of whether the US will decline, the US will suppress the KF-21.

As for their current performance, it doesn't really matter. They actually don't have stealth capabilities now. What really needs to be compared is their future.

US is not partner of KF21

It can impose export restriction if only its made components are in the plane. 60% of KF21 components come from SK

US has impose export restriction to Indonesia on 9 US made components, but as the other developer Indonesia can change the component to other source like France for example.

This is why Indonesia will try to develop IF21 variant with less US component. KF21 5th prototype is given to Indonesian Aerospace in order to develop IF21 variant

 

[MMM-E]

1st, KF-21, roughly at the level of a "4.75th Gen fighter"
South Korea's electronics industry is very developed, which brings huge advantages to the KF-21's avionics capabilities. At the same time, South Korea is very willing to submit to the United States and they are not short of funds, so it is very easy for it to obtain a large amount of technology from the United States.

2nd, KAAN, roughly at the level of a "4.25th Gen fighter"
Turkey lacks an advanced electronics industry, nor does it possess the necessary in-depth industrial capabilities.

You dont know anything about Turkish Defense Industry and KAAN Fighter Jet


S.Korea is nothing to compare with Turkiye in Radar , Electronic and Avionic System technologies

Turkiye has its own systems such as GaN based AESA Radars , EOTS , IRST , DIRCM , EW Suite , Mission computer , HMDS , Targeting and Jamming Pods , and all kinds of Missile projects ( cruise , anti-ship , air to air , anti-radiation , ALBM , air to surface )



S.Korean KF-21 technology

-- Engine from American GE
-- AESA Radar technology from Israeli ELTA Systems
-- Terrain-following/terrain avoidance (TF/TA) Systems from Israeli ELTA Systems
-- IRST sensor head unit from Italian LEONARDO
-- CANOPY technology from American TEXSTARS
-- AMADs from American TRIUMP GROUP
-- HELMET from USA
-- Main Generator from American COLLINS AEROSPACE
-- Missile ejection launchers from British COBHAM
-- Ejection Seat from British MARTIN-BAKER
-- Wheel braking system from American MEGGITT
-- Air to Air Missiles from USA and Europe
-- Cruise Missiles from USA and Europe

even simulation link system from Turkish SDT Space and Defense Technologies


---------------------------------------

on the other hand , except Engine and Ejection seat KAAN is full of indigenous

in 2018 , Turkiye has started TF-35.000 turbofan engine for KAAN Fighter Jet


---------------------------------------


and KF-21 is inferior to compare with the KAAN
KF-21 doesnt have internal weapon bay for stealth flight capability

KF-21 lack 360° situational awareness
KF-21 lack DIRCM ( only SU-57 and KAAN )
KF-21 lack HMDS ( only F-35 and KAAN )
KF-21 lack full data-to-decision (D2D) capability



KF-21 only can dream about these capabilities

1 -- Superior AESA Radar based on Gan technology with 2.000+ T/R modules
2-- with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness ( 360° situational awareness with 4 AESA radars - sensor fusion with EOTS , IRST with unique configuration )
3-- high-capacity networking , AI, data fusion
4-- Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot
5-- Pilot Health Tracking
6-- DIRCM Directed Infrared Countermeasure System by high power LASER
7-- HMDS (Helmet Display System) with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness
8 --Increased-range BVR Missile (GOKHAN ramjet powered long range networked a2a missile )
9-- excellent EW capabilities with ASELSAN FEWS -- Fighter Electronic Warfare Suite

10 -- full data-to-decision (D2D) capability for multi-layered distributed team of diverse manned aircraft working in concert with unmanned types ( KAAN , ANKA-3, KIZILELMA )

 

[MH.Yang]

US is not partner of KF21

It can impose export restriction if only its made components are in the plane. 60% of KF21 components come from SK

US has impose export restriction to Indonesia on 9 US made components, but as the other developer Indonesia can change the component to other source like France for example.

This is why Indonesia will try to develop IF21 variant with less US component. KF21 5th prototype is given to Indonesian Aerospace in order to develop IF21 variant

You underestimate the power of the United States over South Korea.

 

[Indos]

You dont know anything about Turkish Defense Industry and KAAN Fighter Jet


S.Korea is nothing to compare with Turkiye in Radar , Electronic and Avionic System technologies

Turkiye has its own systems such as GaN based AESA Radars , EOTS , IRST , DIRCM , EW Suite , Mission computer , HMDS , Targeting and Jamming Pods , and all kinds of Missile projects ( cruise , anti-ship , air to air , anti-radiation , ALBM , air to surface )



S.Korean KF-21 technology

-- Engine from American GE
-- AESA Radar technology from Israeli ELTA Systems
-- Terrain-following/terrain avoidance (TF/TA) Systems from Israeli ELTA Systems
-- IRST sensor head unit from Italian LEONARDO
-- CANOPY technology from American TEXSTARS
-- AMADs from American TRIUMP GROUP
-- HELMET from USA
-- Main Generator from American COLLINS AEROSPACE
-- Missile ejection launchers from British COBHAM
-- Ejection Seat from British MARTIN-BAKER
-- Wheel braking system from American MEGGITT
-- Air to Air Missiles from USA and Europe
-- Cruise Missiles from USA and Europe

even simulation link system from Turkish SDT Space and Defense Technologies


---------------------------------------

on the other hand , except Engine and Ejection seat KAAN is full of indigenous

in 2018 , Turkiye has started TF-35.000 turbofan engine for KAAN Fighter Jet


---------------------------------------


and KF-21 is inferior to compare with the KAAN
KF-21 doesnt have internal weapon bay for stealth flight capability

KF-21 lack 360° situational awareness
KF-21 lack DIRCM ( only SU-57 and KAAN )
KF-21 lack HMDS ( only F-35 and KAAN )
KF-21 lack full data-to-decision (D2D) capability



KF-21 only can dream about these capabilities

1 -- Superior AESA Radar based on Gan technology with 2.000+ T/R modules
2-- with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness ( 360° situational awareness with 4 AESA radars - sensor fusion with EOTS , IRST with unique configuration )
3-- high-capacity networking , AI, data fusion
4-- Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot
5-- Pilot Health Tracking
6-- DIRCM Directed Infrared Countermeasure System by high power LASER
7-- HMDS (Helmet Display System) with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness
8 --Increased-range BVR Missile (GOKHAN ramjet powered long range networked a2a missile )
9-- excellent EW capabilities with ASELSAN FEWS -- Fighter Electronic Warfare Suite

10 -- full data-to-decision (D2D) capability for multi-layered distributed team of diverse manned aircraft working in concert with unmanned types ( KAAN , ANKA-3, KIZILELMA )

It has internal bay, it can be upgraded later (block3)

This is why it already look like Stealth fighter with fat design ( fatty due to internal bay inside the belly)

Do you think you are much more clever than hundreds KF21 engineers? They are not stupid.

Man, making new design plane will be very expensive. Just do one and upgrade it until 5 gen

 

[MMM-E]

They only possess limited assembly capabilities. The KAAN mimics a fifth-generation fighter aircraft in appearance, but its internal assembly is only comparable to that of a fourth-generation fighter aircraft (though, of course, they boast that the KAAN is a highly advanced fifth-generation fighter).

if you know nothing about great Turkish Defense Industry then you should shut up

KAAN is far superior to the KF-21 in every field
from technology to combat capabilities
from production quality to Avionics-Electronics
from level of stealth features to situational awareness

We are waiting for only our 35.000 lbf TF-35.000 turbofan Engine
KAAN is coming with even some 6th gen capabilities like DIRCM, full data-to-decision (D2D) capability , high-capacity networking , AI, data fusion and Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot

 

[MMM-E]

Do you think you are much more clever than hundreds KF21 engineers? They are not stupid.

Then USA , China , Turkiye , Russia are stupid to develop Fighter Jets with internal weapon bays for stealth flight capability

KF-21 can not carry Bombs , Cruise Missiles and anti-radiotion Missiles in stealth mode for Air to ground attack and SEAD-DEAD role


for now , KF-21 is a 4,5 gen Fighter ... nothing else

 

[Indos]

You underestimate the power of the United States over South Korea.

Some flexibility do exist for the plane developers since they are the OEM. US ban 4 technology to KF21, but SK can replace it with their own made components like AESA radar

Indonesia get restriction on 9 US made components, but since we could change it to other components, then we so far can manage the restriction since we are also part of the plane OEM

The problem arise for other country. They cannot develop the plane like SK and Indonesia, and SK would not likely spend much money to by pass US restriction to certain country by customizing it through specific development work

 

[Indos]

Then USA , China , Turkiye , Russia are stupid to develop Fighter Jets with internal weapon bays for stealth flight capability

KF-21 can not carry Bombs , Cruise Missiles and anti-radiotion Missiles in stealth mode for Air to ground attack and SEAD-DEAD role
View attachment 156632

for now , KF-21 is a 4,5 gen Fighter ... nothing else

What ever dude