Army Chief tenure to reset with CDF appointment

[hnn]

Wait...so who will be COAS then? Also 4 star?

What is this Punjab-pulsification of the Army?

I think it's going to be like a one country NATO

SACEUR -> JFCBS -> COMISAF

All 4-star appointments.

The number of stars don't really establish seniority. The command level will establish that. Also, throw in the service seniority in the mix e.g. 2 officers of the same rank but one has a seniority of a year more of service.

Kind of like CJCSC was senior to CoAS despite both being 4-star appointments.

Also apologies for too many edits, I woke up only a few mins ago

 

[Xestan]

One way to look at this, in the US, when the the chief of staff of a military service is elevated from his appointment as the chief to that of the chairman of the joint staff, the tenure starts again. Meaning these are two different tenures with two different sets of responsibilities.

Giving the CDF a 5-year term is not an issue if prior they were the chief of army, navy or the air force.

What muddies it a bit in FM Asim Munir's case is that it becomes 3+5 in service. In the US, it is 4+4.

It is likely that in the future, another army chief could end up doing a 5+5 if they served out the entire tenure in both appointments.

Also, as I mentioned in a past post, the day to day runnings of the army will be delegated to the revived VCoAS appointment:

"The changes further said that the prime minister could, on the army chief’s recommendation, authorise an officer appointed as the vice or deputy chief of army staff to exercise and perform the powers and functions vested in the army chief."

COAS Munir’s tenure to reset with CDF appointment after NA approves army act changes

Changes approved to Air Force Act, Navy Ordinance and Supreme Court Practice and Procedure Act as well.

www.dawn.com

So, VCoAS is basically a 4-star CGS?

What's concerning for me is that there are words like 'on advice of CDF', can the Prime Minister make any appointment himself? It seems like it will always come through the COAS.

Not saying that Politicians have been good with those appointments, their favorite Generals have always been a disaster.

 

[Unknown987]

Every MP and the political party from Anp , PPP and PLMN have been guaranteed their payroll (black money )for the next 5/10 yrs Pakistan is now on verge of collapse from within in.

 

[aurelianpilled]

Are they extending the tenure of the naval chief by 5 years as well?

Army chief will retire in 2030 (maybe 2033-2035 if he gets an additional 3-5 year extension through the post of CDF? My sincere guess, most likely, as Munir will end Imran Khan's entire career and Imran Khan will be around 83 in 2035, probably still in jail)

Air chief will retire in 2031

Naval chief will retire in 2028 (possible extension to 2031?)

 

[Ali_Baba]

Are they extending the tenure of the naval chief by 5 years as well?

Army chief will retire in 2030 (maybe 2033-2035 if he gets an additional 3-5 year extension through the post of CDF? My sincere guess, most likely, as Munir will end Imran Khan's entire career and Imran Khan will be around 83 in 2035, probably still in jail)

Air chief will retire in 2031

Naval chief will retire in 2028 (possible extension to 2031?)

Lets see if at least one of the chiefs has any personal or professional integrity and declines it on the basis that it is not good for the future of their institution ???

 

[Blain2]

I agree with you.

Quoted part> What Establishment and present Govt is offering or giving to IK for this muk muka???
They are only offering him release from jail in return of his silence, go out of country and accept whatever happened, this is not give and take, this just another way to strengthen their narrative. once IK accepts this , then they will make more noise that, how IK was bad corrupt and selfish etc. took the deal of his freedom without caring of suffering of his supporters/

When yo want to do a muk muka deal, establishment has to give something back, correct some wrongs what they did to PTI and Pakistanis.

and, Establishment is not ready for that.

FM is a classic example of when some one non deserving get a position of power, through hook and crook, in corporate environment or any professional field. They are insecure, guilty, over aggressive, ultra micro managers etc.... because they know, they do not deserve to be here and no one likes and respect them, hence the unnecessary show of force and power.

I don't know what is on offer from either side. However, what if IK does take the offer and goes off for a couple of years and then comes back like the Nawaz clan?

Their noise on what they say about IK is immaterial. Imran's base does not believe it in any case and would be willing to back him up yet again on his call.

When all the obvious options on table are not workable, some out of the box thinking/options may need to be explored.

 

[Blain2]

Lets see if at least one of the chiefs has any personal or professional integrity and declines it on the basis that it is not good for the future of their institution ???

It has nothing to do with their personal integrity. CDF is needed for higher defense planning. Any chief not going along would actually be doing a disservice to Pakistan's security. Your issue is with the person of Asim Munir, not the concept of the CDF which is needed.

Take the man out of the equation and look at the validity of the concept. It is sound but will require some further optimizations as they roll it out.

 

[Ali_Baba]

It has nothing to do with their personal integrity. CDF is needed for higher defense planning. Any chief not going along would actually be doing a disservice to Pakistan's security. Your issue is with the person of Asim Munir, not the concept of the CDF which is needed.

My issue is with any one wanting to "maintain the office, and perks for life", and with anyone wanting "permanent immunity", and with someone bending the constitution so that they cannot be "fired", or that the law should not apply them. That, they are more important than the country, the law and the people of the country, that they are so enamoured with the stench of their own ego and self perception of their own self worth..

I could list all the ills and implications of the constitutional amendments, but I wont.

Take the man out of the equation and look at the validity of the concept. It is sound but will require some further optimizations as they roll it out.

The fact that the CDF "must" always come from the Army, is illogical to me, and that has nothing to do with the current COAS itself. If you wanted a permanent source, should it not be the air force ? The world we live in right now, is governed by airpower, and it seems that will be the case for some time.

Maybe there is a need, and maybe the concept it a good idea, but its been hijacked beyond any rational reason or rime with all that is changing right now, it is difficult to not see it driven for personal goals, and not professional for the good of the country.

 

[Pakistani Dragon]

Pakistan Zindabad.

 

[UndercoverJIX]

I don't know what is on offer from either side. However, what if IK does take the offer and goes off for a couple of years and then comes back like the Nawaz clan?

Their noise on what they say about IK is immaterial. Imran's base does not believe it in any case and would be willing to back him up yet again on his call.

When all the obvious options on table are not workable, some out of the box thinking/options may need to be explored.

If he does what NS and others have done then its his political death.

Why the Powers wants him to go out of the country, why not allow him to sit in the assembly with the agreement of no compromise on National Security Afghan etc. in any case he will be in opposition without any power and enough seats to derail their agenda.

Its no way give and take, current powers only want to take and not give.

IK had one slogan Insaaf, and now we have seen what happened to our courts and constitution. Different Law for Powerful, we saw amendments where NS clan legalized corruption uptilt a certain limits to clear themselves,

so a retired GENERAL made COAS by this Govt is working on Give and take principal. FM and immunity for life ....

We all know the whole drama, so lets not pretend that any of the current leadership reach here on merit and through proper channel. All of them got together just to save their back sides.

 

[Pakistani Dragon]

I don't know what is on offer from either side. However, what if IK does take the offer and goes off for a couple of years and then comes back like the Nawaz clan? ...

There's no offer, only death penalty awaits Cartoon-e-Azam Imran Khan along with complete disintegration of Pakistan Tehrik-e-Baqwas.

The End.

 

[Blain2]

My issue is with any one wanting to "maintain the office, and perks for life", and with anyone wanting "permanent immunity", and with someone bending the constitution so that they cannot be "fired", or that the law should not apply them. That, they are more important than the country, the law and the people of the country, that they are so enamoured with the stench of their own ego and self perception of their own self worth..

I could list all the ills and implications of the constitutional amendments, but I wont.



The fact that the CDF "must" always come from the Army, is illogical to me, and that has nothing to do with the current COAS itself. If you wanted a permanent source, should it not be the air force ? The world we live in right now, is governed by airpower, and it seems that will be the case for some time.

Maybe there is a need, and maybe the concept it a good idea, but its been hijacked beyond any rational reason or rime with all that is changing right now, it is difficult to not see it driven for personal goals, and not professional for the good of the country.

I will offer my thinking on this (I offer this not being against IK or pro-Asim Munir, but just my reading of the situation being pragmatic) so don't judge it on the basis of right/wrong, rather the reality on the ground.

I do not think Asim Munir considers himself through the lens of "any one wanting to "maintain the office, and perks for life", and with anyone wanting "permanent immunity", and with someone bending the constitution so that they cannot be "fired", or that the law should not apply them. That, they are more important than the country, the law and the people of the country, that they are so enamoured with the stench of their own ego and self perception of their own self worth.."

The possibility is that if one were to sit down with him, he would articulate his stance on this to the point that you would realize that he, and other past generals who came to roost, have intentions which are country-centric and not to assuage their personal egos.

On top of that, the reality is that the current establishment, whose face is Asim Munir currently, is in no mood to go back to the populist politics of Imran Khan. In their view, his domestic and foreign policies adversely affected the trajectory of the country, worsened relations with powers deemed important to Pakistan, and going back to that is regression and not acceptable to the current dispensation.

In order to keep the lid on IK's politics, measures were needed to codify protection for the "unelected" part of the establishment. This has been done through 27A of the Constitution to ensure that even if PTI/IK et-al get back in the office, there is a check in place against that.

Keep in mind that everything that is in 27A is "repealable". Nothing is for certain and nothing is for life for as long as it is in a constitution that is subject to change. Yes, the barriers to change are high, but 18A was repealed/changed/diluted by an elected government. In the future the same can/will be done to 27A.

 

[Meengla]

Why the Powers wants him to go out of the country, why not allow him to sit in the assembly with the agreement of no compromise on National Security Afghan etc. in any case he will be in opposition without any power and enough seats to derail their agenda.

When taken out of the prison, he won't ride some tank to the India border: He will ride a tanker to Islamabad in unending 'long marches' and if you look at his history since 2014, that's all he does best--along with fooling people with 'American toppled me' BS.

In their view, his domestic and foreign policies adversely affected the trajectory of the country, worsened relations with powers deemed important to Pakistan, and going back to that is regression and not acceptable to the current dispensation.

Imagine a sitting PM of Pakistan accusing one of Pakistan's largest trading partners with which, and its allies, Pakistan has sizable trade surpluses and accusing that Superpower for his ouster. Imagine the consequences for Pakistan's economy if Biden has just moved his pen a little bit against Pakistan.

 

[Blain2]

The fact that the CDF "must" always come from the Army, is illogical to me, and that has nothing to do with the current COAS itself. If you wanted a permanent source, should it not be the air force ? The world we live in right now, is governed by airpower, and it seems that will be the case for some time.

Maybe there is a need, and maybe the concept it a good idea, but its been hijacked beyond any rational reason or rime with all that is changing right now, it is difficult to not see it driven for personal goals, and not professional for the good of the country.

This one deserved a separate response.

First thing, CDF always coming from the Army is a "changeable" element. In the future, if the thinking changes, we may see CAS/CNS taking on the CDF job.

For the here and now, the current consideration is taking into account the ground realities of warfare in our region. They are positing that Pak-India is a land-centric conflict. We have the Kashmir issue, active LoC/IB, which is essentially the purview of the army/land forces.

Since we don't have a global, expeditionary footprint with each of the services having close to parity in terms of capabilities, budget etc., an army general coordinating (which would be anchored around land based operations) with others in the sister services makes more sense.

However, there are pros and cons on both sides so I don't think you are wrong in any way. The current in-vogue thinking is that the post of CDF must be held by the Army. Future developments may change this thinking.

 

[Blueishere]

There's no offer, only death penalty awaits Cartoon-e-Azam Imran Khan along with complete disintegration of Pakistan Tehrik-e-Baqwas.

The End.

Stay in England.