Army Chief tenure to reset with CDF appointment

[Watandar]

Can senior PAF or PN staff be appointed to the new role CNSC or will it always be an army general? And why is he now also immune to prosecution or any form of judicial or criminal oversight?

They can only be from Pakistan Army, since Generals have proven themselves the only qualified and loyal people in the land.

And yes now they also enjoy legal immunity to coup whoever they like, shoot whoever they like and run many more idiotic hollow self destructive experiments like Mujahideen, IJI, Taliban, MQM, Kargil, PTI, TLP and so on.

Pakistan was made for them only after all.

 

[VCheng]

And yes now they also enjoy legal immunity to coup whoever they like, shoot whoever they like and run many more idiotic hollow self destructive experiments like Mujahideen, IJI, Taliban, MQM, Kargil, PTI, TLP and so on.

Pakistan was made for them only after all.

Gen Zia's wet dream from hell finally came true. Sadly.

 

[UndercoverJIX]

So the field marshal is now in charge of the air force and navy? How does that sit with the ego of Sindu? Not good for the PAF to have an army man giving it orders. What a way to achieve self defeat.

They have understandings, part of the same gang,

 

[Ali_Baba]

So the field marshal is now in charge of the air force and navy?

Yes.

How does that sit with the ego of Sindu?

Depends on how his hand will be coined?

Not good for the PAF to have an army man giving it orders. What a way to achieve self defeat.

Agree. Having it written into the framework itself that is "has" to be the Army is very short sighted. Pakistan has had far better officers from the Airforce and Navy than the Army.

 

[Ali_Baba]

And why is he now also immune to prosecution or any form of judicial or criminal oversight?

Well, that really "IS" the question, isn't it. i.e. what has he been up to that he needs "legal" protection from. Part of the changes are structural, part are pure greed and ego driven. One, is being hijacked for the other unfortunately.

Think of it this way. he can now do whatever he wants where he wants, how ever he wants, and there is no legal recourse because he has legal protection to do so without consequence.

 

[hnn]

Agree. Having it written into the framework itself that is "has" to be the Army is very short sighted. Pakistan has had far better officers from the Airforce and Navy than the Army.

Well that is indeed short shortsightedness and a power grab move. It was a very smart move to exploit the limitation of JS HQ (Coordinating Body) and replace that with CDF (Operational Command) - the CDF's "operational command" inherently favor's appointment of an Army General as per military logic and operational variables specific to Pakistan.

 

[Ali_Baba]

the CDF's "operational command" inherently favor's appointment of an Army General as per military logic and operational variables specific to Pakistan.

I think the Airforce is more specific to Pakistan's operations demands than the Army, imho, given the nuclear umbrella both countries need to operate under, which itself negates the Army. The PAF is the lead service now, followed by the Navy, and then last comes the Army. That is the strategic reality right now. Counter terror operations by the PA in the belt does not make the PA the lead service(especially when they are being forced to clean up the mess that they created themselves in the first place). This can be debated backwards/forwards all day long, so we can each hold our opinions on it and leave at that.

 

[hnn]

I think the Airforce is more specific to Pakistan's operations demands than the Army, imho, given the nuclear umbrella both countries need to operate under, which itself negates the Army. The PAF is the lead service now, followed by the Navy, and then last comes the Army. That is the strategic reality right now. This can be debated backwards/forwards all day long, so we can each hold our opinions on it.

Debated back and forth from a general standpoint, yes. However, from operational standpoint currently PAF and PN don't qualify for CDF - and it is not because they are less competent in any way (I'd in fact argue the opposite). However, their competency operationally doesn't apply to "War" as much as it applies to "Individual Battles" - which is what has been exploited here with "Operational Command" awarded to CDF. I agree with PAF being "tip of the spear" as a US Marine would put it but the "shaft of the spear" is still mainly Army. If you'd like I can post about why it is like that but it'll be lengthy post LOL

 

[Pakistani Dragon]

Stay in England.

Stay in your Land of Dreams.

 

[ziaulislam]

Thank you for summarizing the disconnect that has been the proverbial albatross around the Pakistani neck for the past 2+ years.

IK is a persona-non-grata for the establishment at this juncture, period. All these latest constitutional changes are being made to protect the existing establishment from IK/PTI's reaction if they do come back in power.

It would be instructive to remember that IK isn't the only man with the will of steel. There are a few others with a similar demeanor just as motivated to keep him and his agenda out.

Yes, him being in jail is unfair and uncalled for, but what is the solution? The only option is some rapproachment/muk-mukka, where both sides have to be willing to meet half-way. Nobody will get all of what they want but walk away with some way out of the current morass.

At this juncture, to me this is the only viable way to move forward.

Simple solution just kill him so we can get over things

 

[Meengla]

This unfortunately is the effect of the echo-chambers created and it seems this is all the worse outside of Pakistan.
If "hundreds" were murdered as they claim, who were they? Where are their families? What are their names? Where do they hail from? Who are their next of kin?

Right. Pakistan is not some North Korea: When people die as in a 'genocide', there is news. A LOT of news.
But I mourn the lack of reason and objectivity among the so-called 'educated' Pakistanis especially residing in Western countries. As I said in my quoted post, a practicing medical doctor in my Pakistani-American university circled believed the myths which you addressed above. Sometimes it feels so depressing but then I think the Deep State of Pakistan is starting to prevail against the Frankenstein's Monster which the Deep State's past actors themselves created in last 10-15 years.

 

[hnn]

I just want to know which cleaners they hired to wipe clean the blood of a 100 people off the streets overnight. I want to hire those cleaners on next Eid-ul-Azha

 

[Blain2]

I will state something controversial but it has to be said given the current landscape.

If power is to be centralized in the hands of one man in any case, as many in PTI etc. are saying, then I say one thing. The goal should be to turn Pakistan into a forward moving, hard state, and the person at the center of this has to run the ship like the founding fathers of Singapore, Malaysia, and China. Single-minded focus, not one damn bit getting in the way of these national goals and not being bothered by so called democratic chaos.

That is, to use the entire state power to accomplish national goals with no dissension being countenanced. That is, park the niceties aside, revamp the politico-social structure, bring madrassas in-line, operationalize CPEC completely, destroy the regressive industrial/agricultural practices, enforce NAP in entirety, fix the nonsensical degradation in Karachi/open its potential to trade, build the dams for our national survival, enact the defense pact with KSA, solidify military and economic ties with China by safeguarding their investments, put Afg. on notice for BLA/TTP etc. etc.

All of this cannot be done through the chaotic "democracy" veneer that we have had for years now. This would also mean no more "benevolent" behind the scenes rule which is a quasi-military supported "hybrid" dispensation. Perhaps on account of international concerns this facade will have to be managed, but it needs to have real muscle to push hard changes for the foundational restructuring of the country.

We can debate till kingdom come why or why not a representative democracy would be a better choice, my point is simply that since we are already not operating with a representative democracy, we might as well get the benefits of a unified rule without being distracted by the jamhooriat tamasha for the next 5-10 years.

 

[Watandar]

I will state something controversial but it has to be said given the current landscape.

If power is to be centralized in the hands of one man in any case, as many in PTI etc. are saying, then I say one thing. The goal should be to turn Pakistan into a forward moving, hard state, and the person at the center of this has to run the ship like the founding leaders of Singapore, Malaysia, and China did. Single-minded focus, not one damn bit getting in the way of these national goals and not being bothered by so called democratic chaos.

That is, to use the entire state power to accomplish national goals with no dissension being countenanced. That is, park the niceties aside, revamp the politico-social structure, bring madrassas in-line, operationalize CPEC completely, destroy the regressive industrial/agricultural practices, enforce NAP in entirety, fix the nonsensical degradation in Karachi/open its potential to trade, build the dams for our national survival, enact the defense pact with KSA, solidify military and economic ties with China by safeguarding their investments, put Afg. on notice for BLA/TTP etc. etc.

All of this cannot be done through the chaotic "democracy" veneer that we have had for years now. This would also mean no more "benevolent" behind the scenes rule which is a quasi-military supported "hybrid" dispensation. Perhaps on account of international concerns this facade will have to be managed, but it needs to have real muscle to push hard changes for the foundational restructuring of the country.

We can debate till kingdom come why or why not a representative democracy would be a better choice, my point is simply that since we are already not operating with a representative democracy, we might as well get the benefits of a unified rule without being distracted by the jamhooriat tamasha for the next 5-10 years.

Your hard state benevolent autocrat amazing tecnocrat stuff has been tried and failed four times in the past. What else was Ayub khan or Zia or Musharraf ? The hybrid option has also been used and flopped. So how about running Pakistan according to its Cosntitution and letting politics evolve and waiting for gradual and permanent improvement ? Some strategic patience ?

No person or office or govt department in Pakistan is capable of doing all you specified anyway. They have neither the intelligence, will, imagination or discipline. So why not utilize the nation instead via a constitutional and democratic system ?

 

[VCheng]

we might as well get the benefits of a unified rule without being distracted by the jamhooriat tamasha for the next 5-10 years.

A coherent argument indeed, but it begs the question whether the past record of open dictatorship periods in Pakistan's history shows enough hard evidence that assuming an openly unified rule now in the manner you suggest will be able to actually deliver on any or all of the goals that you have mentioned.

I would say it would remain highly unlikely, given the past record.