PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll

[MasterChief]

16 jf 17 and 16 f 16s

Thinking what are these defending against? Drones or some other entity to the west starting with I

 

[ThoroughPro]

Bus sari zindagi India ka intizar kartay rahain.

Don't focus on replacing old Jets - that need to be replaced, just because we are waiting for India to place a firm order.

Look at India's track record when it comes to placing orders.

So we should continue to keep our 3rd Gen rust buckets in the Air, putting the lives of our Pilots in jeopardy just 'cause India hasn't placed a firm order.

Yaar, ye logic tou mujhay kabhe nahe samaj aey gi.

Every year they increase the Defence Budget, par Air Force wahnee kay wahnee hai - since we got those J-10c's in 2022.

when you have limited budget, you want to use it most effectively, let the enemy make its move first, so we can get the best counter, its like not swinging the bat befor ethe bowler has delivered the ball.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Thinking what are these defending against? Drones or some other entity to the west starting with I

If that news is true...it probably serves as a token gesture. KSA has far more advanced aircrafts in its air force with more numbers. I'm not sure if these token numbers/types of fighter jets would add any meaningful capabilities at this moment.

 

[niubi]

I really, really want to know if these planes- the J16, F18 Super Hornet, the F15X , Euro Fighter Typhoon, and J10CE-could do a mock-up dogfight and which of the fighter would could up on top… I did not include Rafale its failed it’s duel with JC10C in real combat.

A fair dogfight is much more determined than pilot skill but our of these fighters, I think the Typhoon is the best performing balance.

F-15EX is a heavier fighter than past F-15 and a F-15A would be a better dogfighter.

J-16 is similar to F-15EX, not a dogfighting focused 4.5 gen either.

J-10 and F-18 have their domains of excellence within visual range but thrust to weight doesn't compare to the Typhoon.

My point was, Is the J-10C overrated?
Before the Pak-India conflict, many opined that it was inferior.
Military experts reported Rafale is build with stealth features and had the best EWs suites against all its opponents and then got shot down, they were dumbfounded.

Is the J-16 overated?
Simple. Put it to a test like J-10C.
In a mock up fights with other class jets no harm in that.

J-16 and J-10C are very different aircraft. J-16 is founded to be a ground pounder first and then evolved into this multirole fighter afterwards because it was discovered that non stealth fighter with huge, powerful radar and long range missiles (PL-17) has a role when combined with J-20. Initial J-16 program started in the late 2000s/early 2010s aimed to produce a domesticated multirole fighter than focused on ground strike. Only after the success of the J-20 and tactic development cycles in the late 2010s did PLAAF realise there is a strong air superiority role for J-16 later variants.

J-10C (J-10) was developed from the get go as air superiority. If it weren't for J-16's longer reach, higher capacity, longer ranged weapons and more powerful sensors, it wouldn't be a clear winner over the J-10C in BVR but for WVR, the J-10C can fly better if pilot skill on their respective machines were equal. This doesn't make the J-10C a better platform though.

 

[Luciferdd]

A fair dogfight is much more determined than pilot skill but our of these fighters, I think the Typhoon is the best performing balance.

F-15EX is a heavier fighter than past F-15 and a F-15A would be a better dogfighter.

J-16 is similar to F-15EX, not a dogfighting focused 4.5 gen either.

J-10 and F-18 have their domains of excellence within visual range but thrust to weight doesn't compare to the Typhoon.



J-16 and J-10C are very different aircraft. J-16 is founded to be a ground pounder first and then evolved into this multirole fighter afterwards because it was discovered that non stealth fighter with huge, powerful radar and long range missiles (PL-17) has a role when combined with J-20. Initial J-16 program started in the late 2000s/early 2010s aimed to produce a domesticated multirole fighter than focused on ground strike. Only after the success of the J-20 and tactic development cycles in the late 2010s did PLAAF realise there is a strong air superiority role for J-16 later variants.

J-10C (J-10) was developed from the get go as air superiority. If it weren't for J-16's longer reach, higher capacity, longer ranged weapons and more powerful sensors, it wouldn't be a clear winner over the J-10C in BVR but for WVR, the J-10C can fly better if pilot skill on their respective machines were equal. This doesn't make the J-10C a better platform though.

You may not be aware that the radar in later batches of J-16 fighter jets has been upgraded to a GaN model. Although its peak power is limited by the engine's generating capacity, it still reaches the 80KW level, which is five to six times greater than the GaAs phased array on the original J-10C ..

 

[Oscar]

Bus sari zindagi India ka intizar kartay rahain.

Don't focus on replacing old Jets - that need to be replaced, just because we are waiting for India to place a firm order.

Look at India's track record when it comes to placing orders.

So we should continue to keep our 3rd Gen rust buckets in the Air, putting the lives of our Pilots in jeopardy just 'cause India hasn't placed a firm order.

Yaar, ye logic tou mujhay kabhe nahe samaj aey gi.

Every year they increase the Defence Budget, par Air Force wahnee kay wahnee hai - since we got those J-10c's in 2022.

If I had not witnessed this mentality first hand I would debate you - but it is rather true.

The logic behind it is - let the Indians commit to something based on their snails pace bureaucracy and then go ahead and exceed it quickly while they spend an another eternity going through their approvals and implementation to catch up.

Also because you’re piss poor compared to them so cannot really spend money willy nilly…


Unless its on expensive staff cars for VIPs or other ayashis

 

[KingQamaR]

A fair dogfight is much more determined than pilot skill but our of these fighters, I think the Typhoon is the best performing balance.

F-15EX is a heavier fighter than past F-15 and a F-15A would be a better dogfighter.

J-16 is similar to F-15EX, not a dogfighting focused 4.5 gen either.

J-10 and F-18 have their domains of excellence within visual range but thrust to weight doesn't compare to the Typhoon.



J-16 and J-10C are very different aircraft. J-16 is founded to be a ground pounder first and then evolved into this multirole fighter afterwards because it was discovered that non stealth fighter with huge, powerful radar and long range missiles (PL-17) has a role when combined with J-20. Initial J-16 program started in the late 2000s/early 2010s aimed to produce a domesticated multirole fighter than focused on ground strike. Only after the success of the J-20 and tactic development cycles in the late 2010s did PLAAF realise there is a strong air superiority role for J-16 later variants.

J-10C (J-10) was developed from the get go as air superiority. If it weren't for J-16's longer reach, higher capacity, longer ranged weapons and more powerful sensors, it wouldn't be a clear winner over the J-10C in BVR but for WVR, the J-10C can fly better if pilot skill on their respective machines were equal. This doesn't make the J-10C a better platform though.

Your right

F15EX and J16 are similar in concept. They are heavyweight standoff range missile trucks loaded with best electronics and have biggest missiles. They will not engage in close combat not designed for that. Typhoon is a true air superiority fighter with its powerful engines with cutting- edge technology with speed agility and technology. It was designed for one thing and that was to engage and shoot down Russian Flankers and any other jets. Probably is the best air superiority fighter out there. It was rumoured, Qatari Typhoon the latest tranche were in a mock dogfight and did not do to well against the JC-10? I don’t know what the situation was what how they mock fight was done.

 

[Death_Zone]

I really, really want to know if these planes- the J16, F18 Super Hornet, the F15X , Euro Fighter Typhoon, and J10CE-could do a mock-up dogfight and which of the fighter would could up on top… I did not include Rafale its failed it’s duel with JC10C in real combat.

About Rafale, Sindor is BVR. You are asking for dog fight....

 

[Yasser76]

If I had not witnessed this mentality first hand I would debate you - but it is rather true.

The logic behind it is - let the Indians commit to something based on their snails pace bureaucracy and then go ahead and exceed it quickly while they spend an another eternity going through their approvals and implementation to catch up.

Also because you’re piss poor compared to them so cannot really spend money willy nilly…


Unless its on expensive staff cars for VIPs or other ayashis

Banning him was a bit harsh no yaar?

 

[Oscar]

Banning him was a bit harsh no yaar?

No idea when that happened -