Attack on Jaffer Express

[Fatman17]

Problem with our intelligence structure is that it is focused on monitoring and repressing PTI and its leaders and workers instead of doing what they are supposed to do - deny anti state elements space to operate against the people - so they are always reactive instead of being proactive.

 

[Starlord]

watching some Pakistani news channels, some key points that everyone was discussing...
1) This is the biggest Hostage situation in Pakistan's history.
2) Due to remote location, and hard Terrain the Operations by security forces will be extremely tough.
3) This incident can turn into a mass casualty event.
4) Situation in Balochistan is reaching a point of no return.
5) Around 20 such Organizations are operating Freely from Afghanistan.
6) India is funding those Organizations with full confidence of Afghan Taliban Govt.
7) Hijackers/Terrorists are in contact with their Handlers in Afghanistan.
8) Around 27 Terrorists are sent to hell so far with 155+/- Passengers rescued.
9) Terrorists have dispersed into small groups, taken hostages with them into surrounding mountains.
10) Some Terrorists are sitting among the women/children wearing suicide jackets threatening to blow them, while others using Hostages as Human shields.

Aftermath,
1) Its time to launch major Military operations in Balochistan, using Tanks/Drones/Fighters.
2) More Wide spread Air strikes in Afghanistan, taking out leadership of BLA/BRA/TTP.
3) Talk to Iranians to seal of their side of border, if they provide intelligence that's even better.
4) Send a group to USA, bring the Americans on board because their Intelligence network is by the best, from Drone surveillance to spy networks, from Satellite imagery, if they can provide Intelligence for ISIS-K BasTurd they can also help Pakistan in providing information on BLA/TTP leadership.
5) Create a consensus, and Policy that every time any attack small or big, hit & run or grenade Attack, immediately launch counter Air strikes, within 24 hours.
6) Create 50 km buffer zone inside Afghanistan, if Afghani's don't take this TTP/BLA matter seriously, throw every Afghan legal/illegal back and seal off the border completely.

 

[MirageV3ff]

watching some Pakistani news channels, some key points that everyone was discussing...
1) This is the biggest Hostage situation in Pakistan's history.
2) Due to remote location, and hard Terrain the Operations by security forces will be extremely tough.
3) This incident can turn into a mass casualty event.
4) Situation in Balochistan is reaching a point of no return.
5) Around 20 such Organizations are operating Freely from Afghanistan.
6) India is funding those Organizations with full confidence of Afghan Taliban Govt.
7) Hijackers/Terrorists are in contact with their Handlers in Afghanistan.
8) Around 27 Terrorists are sent to hell so far with 155+/- Passengers rescued.
9) Terrorists have dispersed into small groups, taken hostages with them into surrounding mountains.
10) Some Terrorists are sitting among the women/children wearing suicide jackets threatening to blow them, while others using Hostages as Human shields.

Aftermath,
1) Its time to launch major Military operations in Balochistan, using Tanks/Drones/Fighters.
2) More Wide spread Air strikes in Afghanistan, taking out leadership of BLA/BRA/TTP.
3) Talk to Iranians to seal of their side of border, if they provide intelligence that's even better.
4) Send a group to USA, bring the Americans on board because their Intelligence network is by the best, from Drone surveillance to spy networks, from Satellite imagery, if they can provide Intelligence for ISIS-K BasTurd they can also help Pakistan in providing information on BLA/TTP leadership.
5) Create a consensus, and Policy that every time any attack small or big, hit & run or grenade Attack, immediately launch counter Air strikes, within 24 hours.
6) Create 50 km buffer zone inside Afghanistan, if Afghani's don't take this TTP/BLA matter seriously, throw every Afghan legal/illegal back and seal off the border completely.

It's as if they're still oblivious to the fact that the state also has a part in cultivating radicalised insurgencies through neglect and oppression.

OKay let's hypothetically create that damned buffer zone in Afghanistan. What then? That doesn't stop India from training the BLA, it doesn't stop the Iranians to continue their proxy? Kulbushan Yadhav Afghan ya Iranian tha?

Military hasn't changed their approach to terrorism at all even though they've been fighting it for two decades at this point.

Intelligence is too busy screwing around elsewhere than doing their job.

Government? I don't think I have to say anything, they're all the same.

 

[Tomcats]

Every train has Railway Police on it, a few Railway Police officers cannot prevent a larger hostile force from attacking or taking over the train.
View attachment 107227

Fwiw they did engage with them for a while and their firefight gave time for some to escape from what I have read.

 

[Protagoras]

A total and complete collapse. A security state without security.

Feel for the poor folks. The train was from Quetta to Peshawar so would mainly be poor labourers and miners from different areas of KPK and Seriaki Belt.

Apparently I was wrong here.

Large number of security forces among the hostages.

The incompetence to have approved sending such a large number on a single train is truly astonishing.

The present military command are true heirs of Yahya.

 

[Cesur]

watching some Pakistani news channels, some key points that everyone was discussing...
1) This is the biggest Hostage situation in Pakistan's history.
2) Due to remote location, and hard Terrain the Operations by security forces will be extremely tough.
3) This incident can turn into a mass casualty event.
4) Situation in Balochistan is reaching a point of no return.
5) Around 20 such Organizations are operating Freely from Afghanistan.
6) India is funding those Organizations with full confidence of Afghan Taliban Govt.
7) Hijackers/Terrorists are in contact with their Handlers in Afghanistan.
8) Around 27 Terrorists are sent to hell so far with 155+/- Passengers rescued.
9) Terrorists have dispersed into small groups, taken hostages with them into surrounding mountains.
10) Some Terrorists are sitting among the women/children wearing suicide jackets threatening to blow them, while others using Hostages as Human shields.

Aftermath,
1) Its time to launch major Military operations in Balochistan, using Tanks/Drones/Fighters.
2) More Wide spread Air strikes in Afghanistan, taking out leadership of BLA/BRA/TTP.
3) Talk to Iranians to seal of their side of border, if they provide intelligence that's even better.
4) Send a group to USA, bring the Americans on board because their Intelligence network is by the best, from Drone surveillance to spy networks, from Satellite imagery, if they can provide Intelligence for ISIS-K BasTurd they can also help Pakistan in providing information on BLA/TTP leadership.
5) Create a consensus, and Policy that every time any attack small or big, hit & run or grenade Attack, immediately launch counter Air strikes, within 24 hours.
6) Create 50 km buffer zone inside Afghanistan, if Afghani's don't take this TTP/BLA matter seriously, throw every Afghan legal/illegal back and seal off the border completely.

Create a buffer zone inside Afghanistan and uplift southern and northern Baluchistan and surround central regions like Qalat, Awaran. Panjgur and Khuzdar which are posing a serious threat. .

 

[Bilal]

Create a buffer zone inside Afghanistan

- Who will protect and maintain it?
- Where will the funding come from?
- Do you have the diplomatic muscle?
- What impact it will have on the international donors including IMF?
- Do you have the capacity to fight a guerrilla war on a much larger scale and intensity ?
- and above all what are your objectives that you want to achieve from the said buffer zone?

 

[PakAl]

You need to be careful not to imply that the poor need bribes not to do vidence.
Development will take decades

There is a balance between pandering to every greivance versus do some right things for yourself.

Its not bribe, I am not talking about buying poor people cars, mansions and gold watches but basic needs, this is the responsibility of the state. The poor workers used to sleep on the streets, they come from far, from isolated areas to work in bigger cities but cannot afford accommodation so the government met their basic needs of accommodation and food.

 

[Foinikas]

I've read a lot of interesting posts and I tend to agree with most of you guys. There are many valid points. And especially on this page here. I understand the problem is the Pakistan Army's long-time involvement into politics and the corruption in the highest ranks and sometimes the lower ranks as well. Also,the lack of smart and able political leadership right now has caused these terrorist groups to start causing trouble again.

 

[Dalit]

- Who will protect and maintain it?
- Where will the funding come from?
- Do you have the diplomatic muscle?
- What impact it will have on the international donors including IMF?
- Do you have the capacity to fight a guerrilla war on a much larger scale and intensity ?
- and above all what are your objectives that you want to achieve from the said buffer zone?

As long as we remain mired in these discussions, no progress will be made. There is no doubt that such attacks can be traced back to Afghanistan. Many more attacks inside Pakistan or at the border are sanctioned by the Taliban. The Taliban have recently patched things up with India, and their entire bonhomie is based on security. India demands certain concessions from the Taliban. The Taliban are more than willing to provide these concessions in opposition to Pakistan.

Pakistan cannot afford to remain idle and spectate. Since the Taliban made a comeback, the security situation in Pakistan has deteriorated very rapidly. The frequency of attacks has increased. The time has come to respond firmly. A bufferzone between Afghanistan and Pakistan is a necessity.

The IMF and international donors left Afghanistan behind. They don't care about whatever happens between Pakistan and Afghanistan as long as it doesn't affect them. Pakistan has a lot of room to maneuver and deal with the Taliban. The only party that is going to be affected by this is India.

Now, all of this needs to be coupled with a sincere effort to rehabilitate and reintegrate the Baloch people. Things like these cannot continue:



Also, Balochistan must be integrated fully into Pakistan. This province has been neglected and only received attention when the Chinese came to invest. Balochistan must not be treated like an orphan. It is part and parcel of Pakistan.

The question is, are the muhafiz willing to do this? I highly doubt.

 

[FuturePAF]

- Who will protect and maintain it?
- Where will the funding come from?
- Do you have the diplomatic muscle?
- What impact it will have on the international donors including IMF?
- Do you have the capacity to fight a guerrilla war on a much larger scale and intensity ?
- and above all what are your objectives that you want to achieve from the said buffer zone?

For Baluchistan at least, the Pakistani side of the border is sparsely populated. Why can’t the military build a 5 km buffer zone on its side of the border (with a wall or fortifications facing Afghanistan one side and another wall facing Baluchistan on the other side; similar to Caesar’s defenses at the Battle of Alesia) and an 50 km wide inspection zone beyond that inside Pakistan, with tethered aerostat balloons.

 

[Cesur]

- Who will protect and maintain it?
- Where will the funding come from?
- Do you have the diplomatic muscle?
- What impact it will have on the international donors including IMF?
- Do you have the capacity to fight a guerrilla war on a much larger scale and intensity ?
- and above all what are your objectives that you want to achieve from the said buffer zone?

- You don't need a huge army to maintain it. You need to construct walls/fences in the buffer zone and employ drones and surveillance cameras and when the need arises additional troops can come and go. You have to do what Turkiye did with Syria which more or less solved Kurdistan problem

- We fenced border along the Durand line didn't we? Why not do it a bit more in Afghanistan's territory to create a buffer zone? I don't see funding as an issue. Basically you have to structure your border and re-organize your troops and employ technology which we are not short of.

- By diplomacy you mean convincing the U.S. This is actually the perfect time to implement everything because Trump doesn't care as long as it benefits the U.S economically and strategically without firing an American bullet. His statements pertaining to U.S weapons in Afghanistan and Bagram Air Base favours Pakistan. If we control parts of Afghanistan we solve our security issues and help Americans give back Bagram Air Base and under extreme circumstances even cooperate in the mineral sector there.

- We are basically the same people on both sides of the border. What don't we know about Afghans and how wars are fought? Besides we have much superior weapons along with experience of guerrilla warfare.

- Objective is to bring peace in Pakistan and stop smuggling which affects our economy as well.

 

[PakAl]

Thats also a reason why ethno-nationalism has been on the rise. Pakistan's entire state paradigm is flawed. Decades of corruption and political instability will lead to that. Don't even get me started on how I've seen people online turn this into a show piece for their favourite political party and them actually celebrating this attack. I guess it happens when the state neglects you, and when education isn't wide spread enough for them to make full conspiracy theories and concerningly extremist comments

The state is the same since the British rule, we have a constitution but noone follows it. We must update/upgrade/reform the state, bring governance, electrol, health, education, political, Judicial, police, security reforms. Need to devolve the power. But by design no reforms are allowed to take place. Imagine you can directly go to police station and file a case, or an independent lawyer or judge can give you justice without political interference, this is unacceptable to the mafia rulers as they will become irrelevant, they want you to rely on them, this is amongst other things such as mafias will rather than die loose their control.

 

[Bilal]

As long as we remain mired in these discussions, no progress will be made. There is no doubt that such attacks can be traced back to Afghanistan. Many more attacks inside Pakistan or at the border are sanctioned by the Taliban. The Taliban have recently patched things up with India, and their entire bonhomie is based on security. India demands certain concessions from the Taliban. The Taliban are more than willing to provide these concessions in opposition to Pakistan.

Pakistan cannot afford to remain idle and spectate. Since the Taliban made a comeback, the security situation in Pakistan has deteriorated very rapidly. The frequency of attacks has increased. The time has come to respond firmly. A bufferzone between Afghanistan and Pakistan is a necessity.

The IMF and international donors left Afghanistan behind. They don't care about whatever happens between Pakistan and Afghanistan as long as it doesn't affect them. Pakistan has a lot of room to maneuver and deal with the Taliban. The only party that is going to be affected by this is India.

Now, all of this needs to be coupled with a sincere effort to rehabilitate and reintegrate the Baloch people. Things like these cannot continue:

View attachment 107362

Also, Balochistan must be integrated fully into Pakistan. This province has been neglected and only receieved attention when the Chinese came to invest. Balochistan must not be treated like an orphan. It is part and parcel of Pakistan.

The question is, are the muhafiz willing to do this? I highly doubt.

So the argument is that we cannot afford to remain idle, so let’s jump off the cliff.

The situation was brought under control about 10 years ago. The question should be asked what did the Muhafiz of that time do that meri jind, meri jaan has failed at.

 

[Bilal]

- You don't need a huge army to maintain it. You need to construct walls/fences in the buffer zone and employ drones and surveillance cameras and when the need arises additional troops can come and go. You have to do what Turkiye did with Syria which more or less solved Kurdistan problem

- We fenced border along the Durand line didn't we? Why not do it a bit more in Afghanistan's territory to create a buffer zone? I don't see funding as an issue. Basically you have to structure your border and re-organize your troops and employ technology which we are not short of.

Do you see any problem here?