BrahMos: Greek Experts Pitch Indo-Russian Supersonic Cruise Missile To Checkmate S-400 Armed Turkey

[kambhakt]

Actually there is no harm bro if its discussed professionally and intellectually..... we can discuss weaknesses of Brahmos and S400 and their strengths too..... it will be good discussion if discussed with respect....

With most members this would be true. The member in question has a history of drowning you in brochures and ignoring everything you say.

 

[Sarsilmaz]

There will be no war between Turks and Greeks.

Here's a hypothetical but/if perspective.
Comparing the Turkish army with the Greek army is not proportional. 150 or even 1500 BrahMos wouldn't change that. The 150 BrahMos would be a thin stick in the hand of a teenager facing 10 adult men.

What does it take to win a war.
1. Soldiers who are ready to die for their country.
2. A professionally trained army.
3. Weapons and equipment.
4. Access to information
5. A national infrastructure that covers all needs.
(weapons, ammunition, food, clothing, etc.)
6. Influence, friends and allies.
1.Here is a study from 2018 (not created by Turks). Turks with 4th highest willingness in the world.



https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Willingness-to-Fight_fig1_326130275

2. The Turkish Army has one of the best training courses in the world. Almost all soldiers have war and frontline experience.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/worl...n-the-world/story-Ya1wQw8cdIKN8mUuzTg92O.html


3. Expensive Missiles are useless at the frontline.The Ukraine war showed that conventional warfare has completely changed. Heavy and expensive military equipment can be disabled with cheap drones.Drones and artillery with enough ammunition are the most important thing, as the Ukraine war shows us.

List of Turkish air/land/sea drone manufacturers.

https://www.intellinews.com/turkey-sinks-ship-in-mock-sea-drone-swarm-attack-298121/
https://www.defensenews.com/unmanne...robots-drone-swarm-for-digital-troop-concept/
https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategori:Türkiye'nin_insansız_hava_araçları

4. Turkey is one of the few countries with its own military and Earth observation satellites.The Turkish secret service MIT is one of the most active and best connected in the world.

https://space.skyrocket.de/directories/sat_c_turkey.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intelligence_Organization

5. Turkey is completely independent. All required resources, technologies and productions are available.

https://www.swp-berlin.org/10.18449/2024C06/#:~:text=Over%20the%20past%20decade%2C%20Turkey's,is%20exported%20to%20numerous%20countries.

6. The most important point. Friends and allies.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t_Pj_n-5zI

War brings death and suffering. Let there be peace at home and peace in the world.

 

[Foinikas]

Recently, the voices in Greek media have gotten stronger to procure a “truly strategic weapon from India” – the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile – to counter Turkey’s nefarious designs in the Aegean Sea and the Sea of Crete.

In the Greek media where? I only see that you mentioned Greek City Times,which is an Australia-based pro-Indian site.

There's hardly any mention of the BahMos in serious defence sites here and no official or even unofficial news that we want to buy it.

 

[DDG-80]

In the Greek media where? I only see that you mentioned Greek City Times,which is an Australia-based pro-Indian site.

There's hardly any mention of the BahMos in serious defence sites here and no official or even unofficial news that we want to buy it.

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[Foinikas]

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Pentapostagma is a religious website (not official Church website though) that has little to do with defence and geopolitics.

 

[hyperman]

Pentapostagma is a religious website (not official Church website though) that has little to do with defence and geopolitics.

Hi Foinikas, I thought you disappeared after the old pfd forum died. lol

 

[r3alist]

There will be no war between Turks and Greeks.

Here's a hypothetical but/if perspective.
Comparing the Turkish army with the Greek army is not proportional. 150 or even 1500 BrahMos wouldn't change that. The 150 BrahMos would be a thin stick in the hand of a teenager facing 10 adult men.

What does it take to win a war.
1. Soldiers who are ready to die for their country.
2. A professionally trained army.
3. Weapons and equipment.
4. Access to information
5. A national infrastructure that covers all needs.
(weapons, ammunition, food, clothing, etc.)
6. Influence, friends and allies.
1.Here is a study from 2018 (not created by Turks). Turks with 4th highest willingness in the world.

View attachment 31994

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Willingness-to-Fight_fig1_326130275

2. The Turkish Army has one of the best training courses in the world. Almost all soldiers have war and frontline experience.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/worl...n-the-world/story-Ya1wQw8cdIKN8mUuzTg92O.html


3. Expensive Missiles are useless at the frontline.The Ukraine war showed that conventional warfare has completely changed. Heavy and expensive military equipment can be disabled with cheap drones.Drones and artillery with enough ammunition are the most important thing, as the Ukraine war shows us.

List of Turkish air/land/sea drone manufacturers.

https://www.intellinews.com/turkey-sinks-ship-in-mock-sea-drone-swarm-attack-298121/
https://www.defensenews.com/unmanne...robots-drone-swarm-for-digital-troop-concept/
https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategori:Türkiye'nin_insansız_hava_araçları

4. Turkey is one of the few countries with its own military and Earth observation satellites.The Turkish secret service MIT is one of the most active and best connected in the world.

https://space.skyrocket.de/directories/sat_c_turkey.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intelligence_Organization

5. Turkey is completely independent. All required resources, technologies and productions are available.

https://www.swp-berlin.org/10.18449/2024C06/#:~:text=Over%20the%20past%20decade%2C%20Turkey's,is%20exported%20to%20numerous%20countries.

6. The most important point. Friends and allies.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t_Pj_n-5zI

War brings death and suffering. Let there be peace at home and peace in the world.

This is a post with a lot of useful insights into comparing relative power dynamics.

It was considered a bit of a flame post by me but the "willingness to fight" aspect referred to here was all I mean about potential adversaries to Turkey, in other words I always felt it to be higher than average with the Turks, it will take a lot more than a few missiles to intimidate, that's it.

 

[Foinikas]

Hi Foinikas, I thought you disappeared after the old pfd forum died. lol

I did. I was waiting to see if the forum would be back on. Then I saw it was back,but the look was bad and not a lot of the old people were here or...well I didn't bother registering. But there's a lot of news I have when it comes to the Greek military and I wanna make a thread about it.

 

[fulcrum]

There will be no war between Turks and Greeks.

Here's a hypothetical but/if perspective.
Comparing the Turkish army with the Greek army is not proportional. 150 or even 1500 BrahMos wouldn't change that. The 150 BrahMos would be a thin stick in the hand of a teenager facing 10 adult men.

What does it take to win a war.
1. Soldiers who are ready to die for their country.
2. A professionally trained army.
3. Weapons and equipment.
4. Access to information
5. A national infrastructure that covers all needs.
(weapons, ammunition, food, clothing, etc.)
6. Influence, friends and allies.
1.Here is a study from 2018 (not created by Turks). Turks with 4th highest willingness in the world.

View attachment 31994

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Willingness-to-Fight_fig1_326130275

2. The Turkish Army has one of the best training courses in the world. Almost all soldiers have war and frontline experience.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/worl...n-the-world/story-Ya1wQw8cdIKN8mUuzTg92O.html


3. Expensive Missiles are useless at the frontline.The Ukraine war showed that conventional warfare has completely changed. Heavy and expensive military equipment can be disabled with cheap drones.Drones and artillery with enough ammunition are the most important thing, as the Ukraine war shows us.

List of Turkish air/land/sea drone manufacturers.

https://www.intellinews.com/turkey-sinks-ship-in-mock-sea-drone-swarm-attack-298121/
https://www.defensenews.com/unmanne...robots-drone-swarm-for-digital-troop-concept/
https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategori:Türkiye'nin_insansız_hava_araçları

4. Turkey is one of the few countries with its own military and Earth observation satellites.The Turkish secret service MIT is one of the most active and best connected in the world.

https://space.skyrocket.de/directories/sat_c_turkey.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intelligence_Organization

5. Turkey is completely independent. All required resources, technologies and productions are available.

https://www.swp-berlin.org/10.18449/2024C06/#:~:text=Over%20the%20past%20decade%2C%20Turkey's,is%20exported%20to%20numerous%20countries.

6. The most important point. Friends and allies.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t_Pj_n-5zI

War brings death and suffering. Let there be peace at home and peace in the world.

You forgot one point economy

 

[hyperman]

But there's a lot of news I have when it comes to the Greek military and I wanna make a thread about it.

Excellent, I'm looking forward to your future battles with MME.

 

[fulcrum]

I don't think so, I expect the whole package to be around 150 millions.Taiwan deal is not exactly ideal to base our estimate on it for some reasons. But I won't go into that derail for now.




Actually we have. Besides TuRAF has been operating AIM-120 C-7 from early 2010s. I saw an actual photo of it. Not the mention those deal made the news.

But most importantly, they got cleared for AIM-120 C-8 (or potentially even AIM-120D)

From state department press release.


"The Republic of Türkiye has requested to buy 40 new F-16 aircraft and to modernize 79 existing F-16 aircraft to V-Configuration. The request includes: thirty-two (32) F-16 C Block 70 aircraft; eight (8) F-16 D Block 70 aircraft; forty-eight (48) F110-GE-129D engines (40 installed, 8 spares); one hundred forty-nine (149) Improved Programmable Display Generators (iPDG) (40 installed, 10 spares, 99 for modernization program (79 installed, 20 spares)); one hundred forty-nine (149) AN/APG-83 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Scalable Agile Beam Radars (SABR) (40 installed, 10 spares, 99 for modernization program (79 installed, 20 spares)); one hundred sixty-nine (169) Modular Mission Computers (MMC) 7000AHC (or available mission computer) (40 installed, 10 spares, 119 for modernization program (79 installed, 40 spares)); one hundred fifty nine (159) Embedded Global Positioning System (GPS) Inertial Navigation Systems (INS) (EGI) with Selective Availability Anti-Spoofing Module (SAASM) or M-Code capability and Precise Positioning Service (PPS) (40 installed, 8 spares, 111 for modernization program (79 installed, 32 spares)); one hundred sixty-eight (168) Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS) or equivalent Electronic Warfare (EW) systems (40 installed, 10 spares, 118 for modernization program (79 installed, 39 spares)); eight hundred fifty-eight (858) LAU-129 guided missile launchers; forty-four (44) M61 Vulcan cannons (40 installed, 4 spares); sixteen (16) AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods (ATP); one hundred fifty-one (151) Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Joint Tactical Radio Systems (MIDS-JTRS) (40 installed and 4 ground terminals, 8 spares, and 99 for modernization program (79 installed and 4 ground terminals, 16 spares)); nine hundred fifty-two (952) Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) AIM-120C-8 or equivalent missiles; ninety six (96) AMRAAM guidance sections; eight hundred sixty-four (864) GBU-39/B Small Diameter Bombs Increment 1 (SDB-1); two (2) GBU-39(T-1)/B SDB-1 guided test vehicles; two (2) GBU-39(T-1)/B SDB-1 practice bombs; ninety-six (96) AGM-88B High-Speed Anti-Radiation Missiles (HARM); ninety-six (96) AGM-88E Advanced Anti-Radiation Guided Missiles (AARGM); ten (10) AARGM Captive Air Training Missiles (CATM); eleven (11) AARGM control sections; twelve (12) AARGM guidance sections; four hundred one (401) AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder missiles; twelve (12) AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder Captive Air Training Missiles (CATMs); forty (40) AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder tactical guidance units; twelve (12) AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder CATM guidance units; twelve (12) MK82 Inert Filled general purpose bombs; eight hundred fifty (850) Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) KMU-556 tail kits for GBU-31; two hundred (200) JDAM KMU-557 tail kits for GBU-31v3; three hundred eighty-four (384) JDAM KMU-559 tail kits for GBU-32; three (3) JDAM KMU-572 tail kits for GBU-38 or Laser JDAM GBU-54; one thousand fifty (1,050) FMU-152 fuzes. Also included are AMRAAM CATMs; AIM-9X Sidewinder training missiles and Active Optical Target Detectors (AOTD); HARM control sections, rocket motors, and warhead spares; FMU-139 Joint Programmable Fuzes; DSU-38 Laser Guidance Sets for GBU-54; missile containers; AN/ARC-238 radios; AN/APX-127 or equivalent Advanced Identification Friend or Foe (AIFF) Combined Interrogator Transponders (CIT) with mode 5; Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS) II or Scorpion Hybrid Optical-based Inertial Tracker (HObIT) helmet mounted displays; Infrared Search and Track (IRST) pods; AN/ALE-47 Countermeasure Dispenser Systems (CMDS); KY-58 and KIV-78 cryptographic devices; Simple Key Loaders (SKLs); additional secure communications, precision navigation, and cryptographic equipment; Flight Mission Planning Systems (FMPS); Remote Operated Video Enhanced Receivers (ROVER) 6i/6Sis; Tactical Network ROVER kits, and STINGER Multi Bi-Directional (MBI) antennas; SNIPER pod pylons; impulse cartridges, chaff, flares, and ammunition; bomb components and Common Munitions Built-in-Test Reprogramming Equipment (CMBRE); Rackmount Improved Avionics Intermediate Shop (RIAIS); Cartridge Actuated Devices/Propellant Actuated Devices (CAD/PAD); Triple Missile Launcher Adapters (TMLA); aircraft, avionics, and weapons integration, test support, and equipment; major modernization upgrade kits for F-16 Block 40 and Block 50+ aircraft and Service Life Extension Program (SLEP) modifications; aircraft and engine repair and refurbishment after maintenance; engine and aircraft spare and repair parts, consumables, and accessories and repair and return support; aircraft, engine, ground, and pilot support equipment; Classified/Unclassified Computer Program Identification Number (CPIN) systems; electronic warfare database support; pylons, launcher adaptors, weapon interfaces, bomb and ejection racks, conformal fuel tanks, and travel pods; precision measurement equipment laboratory and calibration support; Classified/Unclassified software and software support; Classified/Unclassified publications, manuals, and technical documentation; maps and mapping data; facilities and construction support; simulators and training devices; personnel training and training equipment; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services, studies and surveys; and other related elements of logistical and program support."

U.S. to Sell F-16 to Turkiye total cost is $23.0 Billion | TURDEF

The State Department approved a possible FMS to Turkiye of F-16 Acquisition and Modernisation and related equipment for an estimated cost of $23.0 billion.

turdef.com

.

Damn this is quite big deal the whole deal I think could cost around 13-15 billion atleast...
Still this won't balance however. Greek airforce is at its peak with f16V, f35 and rafales..
Anyways usa won here with approving greek f35s & Turkish deal..

 

[Afif]

Damn this is quite big deal the whole deal I think could cost around 13-15 billion atleast...
Still this won't balance however. Greek airforce is at its peak with f16V, f35 and rafales..

Those F-35 aren't coming before 2030. Around the same time Turks hopes to get KAAN in service. Right now only 18 rafale couldn't change the balance. It is balanced now and 'if' Turks can get the KAAN with indeginous engine in service they would be able to maintain the balance.

 

[lacy]

Those F-35 aren't coming before 2030. Around the same time Turks hopes to get KAAN in service. Right now only 18 rafale couldn't change the balance. It is balanced now and 'if' Turks can get the KAAN with indeginous engine in service they would be able to maintain the balance.

What if Turks have both KAAN and F35?

 

[Afif]

What if Turks have both KAAN and F35?

Very unlikely.

 

[fulcrum]

What if Turks have both KAAN and F35?

Please handover you're S400 to usa then