BREAKING NEWS: Erdogan raises Kashmir issue at UNGA; calls for resolution as per UN resolutions

[Feroze]

Middle ages ended in 1500s. 19th century is not middle ages.
And my logic is equally true as it was at the advent of man.

Sorry buddy, there was no United Nations at the time of American civil war.

Seriously stop wasting our time here.

Anyways Plebiscite by United Nations resolutions is the only solution to the Kashmir dispute.

 

[Jaeger]

Sorry buddy, there was no United Nations at the time of American civil war.

Seriously stop wasting our time here.

Anyways Plebiscite by United Nations resolutions is the only solution to the Kashmir dispute.

Then go ahead and withdraw all Pakistani armies and Pakistani nationals from AJK and GB, as was the first conditions of the plebiscite.

 

[Feroze]

Then go ahead and withdraw all Pakistani armies and Pakistani nationals from AJK and GB, as was the first conditions of the plebiscite.

Wrong! United Nations Resolutions 80 says both India and Pakistan need to withdraw military forces equally for a fair and free plebiscite.

Indian military cannot just stay in the Kashmir region and implement plebiscite where it would be biased. And Pakistani military withdraws completely. That would be unfair.


UN resolution 80 supersedes UNSC 47

This is UNSC resolution: UN Security Council Resolution 80 (1950), adopted on 14 March 1950.

 

[Jaeger]

Wrong! United Nations Resolutions 80 says both India and Pakistan need to withdraw military forces equally for a fair and free plebiscite.

Indian military cannot just stay in the Kashmir region and implement plebiscite where it would be biased.


UN resolution 80 supersedes UNSC 47

And we do not agree to US resolution 80 as you did not agree to UN resolution 47.

 

[Feroze]

And we do not agree to US resolution 80 as you did not agree to UN resolution 47.

No, wrong.

UNSC 80 supersedes UNSC 47. The resolution was adopted on March 15, 1950.

No duh, why should Pakistan agree with UNSC 47? India keeps its military in Kashmir region while Pakistan withdraws all its military forces? That would be UNFAIR!


Resolution 80 addressed the demilitarization of Jammu and Kashmir and contemplated the withdrawal of the regular armies of both India and Pakistan, followed by arrangements specifying what forces could remain on each side.

This is different from the earlier 1948 framework, under which Pakistan's withdrawal was to occur first and India was subsequently to reduce its forces.

UN records describing the earlier framework explicitly state that Pakistan agreed to withdraw its troops and that India's reduction followed after the Commission was satisfied regarding the Pakistani/tribal withdrawal.

Not the Pakistani military.

There is also UNSC Resolution 98 (1952), which continued this process and called for India and Pakistan to negotiate agreement on the number of forces remaining on each side after demilitarization.

So it is India which is at fault for not holding the plebiscite.

3 UNSC resolutions mentioned:

UNSC 47, UNSC 80, UNSC 98.

 

[Jaeger]

No, wrong.

UNSC 80 supersedes UNSC 47. The resolution was adopted on March 15, 1950.

No duh, why should Pakistan agree with UNSC 47? India keeps its military in Kashmir region while Pakistan withdraws all its military forces? That would be UNFAIR!

It was Pakistan which invaded the indipendent state of Kashmir.

India was on the other hand was invited by rulers of Kashmir to repel the Pakistani invaders and India only agreed to defend Kashmir after Kashmir became a part of Indian union.

So Pakistanis needs to leave as they are the invaders.

 

[Feroze]

It was Pakistan which invaded the indipendent state of Kashmir.

India was on the other hand was invited by rulers of Kashmir to repel the Pakistani invaders and India only agreed to defend Kashmir after Kashmir became a part of Indian union.

So Pakistanis needs to leave as they are the invaders.

Sorry buddy, but the Kashmiri King was doing genocide against the Muslims in Jammu, we had no choice but to intervene.

 

[Feroze]

It was Pakistan which invaded the indipendent state of Kashmir.

India was on the other hand was invited by rulers of Kashmir to repel the Pakistani invaders and India only agreed to defend Kashmir after Kashmir became a part of Indian union.

So Pakistanis needs to leave as they are the invaders.

Sorry buddy, but even Louis Mountbatten of Burma said a Plebiscite is supposed to be held.

And equal military forces of India and Pakistan need to leave Kashmir region for free plebiscite to be conducted by the United Nations, so there is no bias.

Go see United Nations Security Council Resolution 80 and 98.

 

[Jaeger]

Sorry buddy, but even Louis Mountbatten of Burma said a Plebiscite is supposed to be held.

And equal military forces of India and Pakistan need to leave Kashmir region for free plebiscite to be conducted by the United Nations, so there is no bias.

Go see United Nations Security Council Resolution 80 and 98.

Mountbatten offered Jinnah plebescite in Kashmir on 2 Nov 1947 in Lahore talk. If Pakistani agreed to withdraw its invaders from Kashmir.

Jinnah rejected the offer and chose continue with his invasion.

 

[Feroze]

Mountbatten offered Jinnah plebescite in Kashmir in 2 Nov 1947 in Lahore talk. If Pakistani agreed to withdraw its invaders from Kashmir.

Jinnah rejected the offer and chose continue with his invasion.

Wrong.

The subsequent UNCIP Resolution of 5 January 1949, accepted by India and Pakistan, specifically established principles for a “free and impartial plebiscite” concerning Jammu and Kashmir's accession. That is the stronger document to examine about what India and Pakistan formally agreed to at the UN level.

It is India which is wrong here.

 

[Feroze]

And Pakistanis were doing a genocide against Hindus and Sikhs at that time. Those were partition times.

Regardless what ever justification you might give for your invasion Kashmir. You are afterall invaders need to leave Kashmir.

Because the Kashmir King started genocide against the Muslims of Jammu.

Stop confusing people here. and the order of events.

Regardless India agreed to a plebiscite and Nehru agreed to it, but ran away when it became clear the plebiscite would be in Pakistan's favour.

Besides why do you keep running away and changing the order of events?

Just implement the plebiscite for crying out loud and the crying will stop.

 

[Jaeger]

Because the Kashmir King started genocide against the Muslims of Jammu.

Stop confusing people here. and the order of events.

Regardless India agreed to a plebiscite and Nehru agreed to it, but ran away when it became clear the plebiscite would be in Pakistan's favour.

And Pakistanis were committing a genocide against Hindus and Sikhs at the same time.

So what gives your the right to invade an independent state ?

 

[Feroze]

Why are jumping from pillar to post after your previous argument is nullified.

Crux of the matter is that Pakistan invaded Kashmir and needs to withdraw.

India on other hand was invited into Kashmir after its rulers acceded Kashmir to India.

Because the Kashmir King was committing genocide against the Muslims of Kashmir.

Thats why we invaded.

Stop wasting our time with your nonsense.

We are seen as liberators to the oppressed Kashmiris who do not want to be ruled by the tyrant King and India.

Pakistan has a documented argument that Kashmir’s final disposition was subsequently supposed to be determined through the wishes of the population under the UN process.

 

[Jaeger]

Because the Kashmir King was commiting genocide against the Muslims of Kashmir.

Thats why we invaded.

Stop wasting our time with your nonsense.

We are seen as liberators to the oppressed Kashmiris who do not want to be ruled by the tyrant King and India.

Believe what you want. There will no plebiscite till each and every Pakistani withdraws from GB and AJK.

 

[Feroze]

Believe what you want. There will no plebiscite till each and every Pakistani withdraws from GB and AJK.

Believe what you want. We will keep pushing for plebiscite since India agreed to it and UNSC resolution push for plebiscite.

Same goes for Indian military until it withdraws from Kashmir region, we will not withdraw either.

We must withdraw equally.

UNSC Resolution 80 (1950) subsequently called on both India and Pakistan to prepare and execute a program of demilitarization, based on General McNaughton’s principles or mutually agreed modifications. Its objective remained eventual determination of Kashmir’s future through a free and impartial plebiscite.


This could be convincingly demonstrated as well.

So the fault is with India.

Resolution 47 explicitly contemplated a “free and impartial plebiscite” to determine whether Jammu and Kashmir would accede to India or Pakistan.

It is more complicated than “Pakistan refused to withdraw” nonsense which Indians keep harping about when "India needs to withdraw its forces from Kashmir" according to the UNSC 80 resolution.




Pakistan and India did both accept the principle of a UN-supervised plebiscite. The disagreement became how to accomplish the prerequisite demilitarization.

Pakistan argued for a military balance between forces remaining on the two sides. The UN's own documentation records these conflicting interpretations.

The plebiscite ultimately failed because India and Pakistan never reached and implemented the required demilitarization arrangements.