bunyan-al-marsous: JF-17A delivering CM-400AKG

That photo doesn't prove Pakistan wrong. Pakistan targeted C2 vehicles and radar of S400.
To be honest, we do not know what Pakistan targeted in Adampur. If anything at all.

A ALCM strike is hard to hide. Look at satellite pictures of Pakistani bases and even failed missiles that fell around that area. It leaves scorch marks and craters. Those were not found in Adampur.
 
To be honest, we do not know what Pakistan targeted in Adampur. If anything at all.

A ALCM strike is hard to hide. Look at satellite pictures of Pakistani bases and even failed missiles that fell around that area. It leaves scorch marks and craters. Those were not found in Adampur.

ISPR told clearly what they targeted. Indian PR didn't show that, instead showed launcher. And some journalists posted pictures from 2019. False claims and hiding make this very suspicious.
 
Well, why won't you cheer? Thing is, 7th was merely reaction. 10th was times 10 reply. I still don't know what happened to it? You can claim anything. Just like I don't believe any F-16 or JF-17 going down, I don't believe "claims".
Why are you so obsessed and demanding that we satisfy your ego? We know what we have done, and we recognize that we could have done more. Just a mere press conference of DGMO on May 11th by both sides paints a picture of who is on top.

what you believe and not believe is your metal problem not ours ...
 
I don’t think satellite images would completely dismiss Pakistani accounts of targeting radar (that is what CM400 was sent for) nor would it be dismissive proof.
Again, in law, there is concept of balance of probabilities and beyond any reasonable doubt in deciding which side is correct.

Balance of probabilities means which side has more weight of probable happening based on evidence, this is typically used in deciding things that are civil in nature.

The other idea, that is beyond any reasonable doubt is used when you are deciding if someone is guilty of some crime. And in that you remove any reasonable doubt of something else happening.

On balance of probabilities, Indian S-400 system did not get hit because we do not have any tangible evidence for it.

Is it beyond all reasonable doubt that S-400 system did not get hit? That is much harder because the bar is higher and now you are asking to prove a negative. And proving a negative is much harder task, which is why burden of proof is shifted to other party.

In simpler terms, it is almost impossible for India to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that its S-400 radars or other equipment did not get hit at all because one can always invent doubt. Like India is showing a fake S-400 or it is a different S-400 which was moved here.

A simpler proposition is to let the other party show that they hit S-400 with a reasonably solid direct or circumstantial evidence. As such, only evidence we got was that ISPR showed us some satellite picture in which they claim that they could find a S-400 system in a particular location at a particular time. Even taken at face value, that is woefully insufficient and lets face it, ISPR did not claim we hit that target.
 
Again, in law, there is concept of balance of probabilities and beyond any reasonable doubt in deciding which side is correct.

Balance of probabilities means which side has more weight of probable happening based on evidence, this is typically used in deciding things that are civil in nature.

The other idea, that is beyond any reasonable doubt is used when you are deciding if someone is guilty of some crime. And in that you remove any reasonable doubt of something else happening.

On balance of probabilities, Indian S-400 system did not get hit because we do not have any tangible evidence for it.

Is it beyond all reasonable doubt that S-400 system did not get hit? That is much harder because the bar is higher and now you are asking to prove a negative. And proving a negative is much harder task, which is why burden of proof is shifted to other party.

In simpler terms, it is almost impossible for India to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that its S-400 radars or other equipment did not get hit at all because one can always invent doubt. Like India is showing a fake S-400 or it is a different S-400 which was moved here.

A simpler proposition is to let the other party show that they hit S-400 with a reasonably solid direct or circumstantial evidence. As such, only evidence we got was that ISPR showed us some satellite picture in which they claim that they could find a S-400 system in a particular location at a particular time. Even taken at face value, that is woefully insufficient and lets face it, ISPR did not claim we hit that target.
un-fu***g-believable, oh dear!
 
Propaganda. During war it is an essential tool.

Once war is over, analysis of damage should filter out propaganda.
That would be huge task considering the scale of fake news propagated by india
 
Propaganda. During war it is an essential tool.

Once war is over, analysis of damage should filter out propaganda.

US senators have already admitted India were defeated. In fact everyone in diplomatic and political cricles know Pakistan won.

You can pay sky news all you want to run your stories to massage your bruised ego, but the people who matter know what happened.
 
What kind of diatribe is this? I fail to see any point here at all. The point remains straightforward. Satellite images are at hand now. They show nothing of military significance hit in India, while in Pakistan several hits have occurred with confirmed casualties and damage.
I just saw some satellite pics too, Pak bases were not DESTROYED. Some minor damages seen, but biggest was the hangar incident. You can't count that as TOTAL destruction right. Let's be fair. India did some damage, Pak did some damage, but India did more damage. To be honest after being in Pakdef for a decade, Indians tend to lie more and tend to hide more to save face, that's my personal experience. Remember India denied Abhinandan downing for days and even denied his capture after that.

You know, writing wrong spellings does not make your narrative look better. It makes it look childish and stupid to say the least.

And a SAM which has not hit its mark and explodes and falls in a corn field is not much of a point of discussion. Even if it failed to find its mark, there is not much of an issue.
SAMs not hitting it's mark is not an issue? You had a S400 80km from the border and 5 jets were down, what were your SAMs doing? We are assuming it didn't hit it's mark and exploded, Pak is saying it was downed by HQ9. You are desperately trying to score a win by saying HQ9 didn't do well to save face because of the J10 hits. HQ9 was not even claimed to have downed S400, they even claim Brahmos and SCALP. You tell me mate.


Not every missile, bullet or shell find their mark. Infact a vast majority dont.

As far as economic aspect go, remember, Pakistan spends way more as a percentage of their economy on defense than what India does. Anyhow, "economy" is not the concern of this thread, so I will not respond to anything further on that front. Its a stupid topic to talk about in this thread.


Indian stock market rallied much more than it crashed. Thank you very much!

View attachment 120412

As far as nukes go, unless you are implying Pakistanis are idiots and mad (which I am sure they are not), the nuclear conflict risk is no different than one between China and USA. USA, btw, also does not have a no first use policy.
India stocks rallied and is it gonna feed those 90% living at sub saharan standards? I am not Pakistani, but I am Chinese and it is actually in our interest to see you geniuses fighting Pak to the death. One lil nuke on Bangalore is enough to say good bye to shining India for the next century.



We have evidence of Pak shooting planes. We have debris of PL-15 missiles. We have plane crash sites too. Three planes can be surely confirmed from the debris and crash sites that have been found. In due time we will find the actual number of losses.

BTW, I do not take ISPR briefing as fact for simple reason, they have lied in those briefings. But thats a given, since in a conflict, fighting parties lie. If you take ISPR radar screen as evidence of anything, then India had shown same radar screen back in 2019. I do not take any of those as evidence of anything.
So far, I tend to believe ISPR more, they have shown radar tracking info, coordinates and photos have shown the debris. Even iNDIA media confirmed at least 4 crashes. GOI? Still hiding until now. 'Every battle has it's losses' rememebr. lolol
 
US senators have already admitted India were defeated. In fact everyone in diplomatic and political cricles know Pakistan won.
False. What are your sources?
Besides, US senator are not really of much importance. Its the state department and Pentagon.

You can pay sky news all you want to run your stories to massage your bruised ego, but the people who matter know what happened.
People who matter are busy attracting India for weapons deals, trade deals etc.
 
I just saw some satellite pics too, Pak bases were not DESTROYED. Some minor damages seen, but biggest was the hangar incident. You can't count that as TOTAL destruction right. Let's be fair. India did some damage, Pak did some damage, but India did more damage. To be honest after being in Pakdef for a decade, Indians tend to lie more and tend to hide more to save face, that's my personal experience. Remember India denied Abhinandan downing for days and even denied his capture after that.
I never said destroyed airbases. I said damaged and damage is not really minor when PAF lost a sq. leader of an AWACS, a damaged AWACS, damaged / destroyed radar fixed sites and hangars.

Remember India denied Abhinandan downing for days and even denied his capture after that.
This is patently false. Very same evening Abhinandan's shooting was declared by Indian government. You are outright lying here. Stop being a liar.


India-Pak Tensions LIVE: Acknowledging that an IAF wing commander is in Pakistan custody, the government has in a strongly worded statement objected to Pakistan military’s “vulgar display" of the injured pilot. The statement came moments after Pakistan military said it has one Indian pilot in custody.​


SAMs not hitting it's mark is not an issue? You had a S400 80km from the border and 5 jets were down, what were your SAMs doing?
Absolutely! SAMs not hitting its mark is not an issue. Hitting a target depends upon many conditions. Sometimes SAMs are fired to scare away a fighter jet. Sometimes, enemy EW overpowers SAM missiles. Unless we know the scenario it is hard to say what really transpired. Real life is not like video games.

You had a S400 80km from the border and 5 jets were down, what were your SAMs doing?
During that time, India, according to Indian conference was trying not to hit any military targets. Infact, had India gone ahead with a proper invasion plan, it would have conducted SEAD on Pakistani SAM sites first using its missiles and drones, like it did later on 9th and 10th.

India stocks rallied and is it gonna feed those 90% living at sub saharan standards?
You brought the stock market into discussion, you tell me why was it significant to talk about it in the first place?

I am Chinese and it is actually in our interest to see you geniuses fighting Pak to the death. One lil nuke on Bangalore is enough to say good bye to shining India for the next century.
Well, you have wild fantasies.

I tend to believe ISPR more
If you believe ISPR then you believe Indian missiles hitting Afghanistan... Which was flatly denied by Afghnistan itself. So, yeah, keep on believing things without evidence.
 
@Vox Non Dei

Please present your argument without constantly @ people- if you disagree dont force people to accept your narrative.

India has her narrative and we have ours. We are still in a frozen conflict. Emotions are high and if I'm being honest I dont trust anything coming out of India.

Just like I am sure Indians dont trust anything coming out of Pakistan.

So please present your argument and if people disagree - accept that both sides with differ in opinion and move on.
 

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