Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Michael]

The disclosure of information on military science and technology is part of the modern military public opinion war. Relatively speaking, the US military likes to exaggerate its capabilities, and the PLA likes to hide its capabilities.

We do not deny that today's PLA military science and technology still follow the United States in many ways.

The U.S. military took the lead in proposing the concept of hypersonic missiles and conducting relevant tests. China followed suit and succeeded, and while China had begun large-scale installations, the U.S. military still had no success in researching it.

When the Chinese saw the swarm drones in Hollywood movies automatically hunting targets driven by AI, they were very shocked. So, soon the Chinese military-industrial complex introduced this weapon. So far, we have not seen the US military equipped with such weapons systems.

The U.S. military's Independence-class littoral combat ships are in a trimaran configuration. The PLA does not endorse this approach. However, the PLA still believed that we needed to master the technology of military ships with a three-body structure, so it built three military rescue ships with a three-body structure............

There is a saying in the Chinese military fan circle: “美国负责想象，中国负责实现”United States are responsible for imagination, and Chinese are responsible for realization.

Don't pay too much attention to the data, whether it's official or speculative.

 

[Hendarto]

You're just beginner of jet engine development, west making jet engines during the WW2 hence they're lots of experience then you

And my question remains same if WS-10 upgraded serval times and near the thrust of WS15 why do you need WS-15?

And remember dude P&W F100 F129 and GE 100 series and Russian AL-31 series is only good for 4th gen heavy jets like F15s and Su-27 which have much less max weight than 5th gen jets (around 60,000 lbs) but 5th gen much heavier than 4th gen jets (more than 80,000 lbs)

If you fit these engines good for 4th generation heavy jets on 5th gen jets , both engines and airframe has much less thrust to weight ratio than 5th generation engines and have a slightly more drag then lift because of lower thrust levels require continuous afterburning thrust to overcome the drag of 4th gen engines

I'm neutral guy brother, I'm always talk on facts and technical aspect of discussion

My understanding WS 15 requirement has been upgraded over time At one time the spec called for a T/W ratio of 10 But PLAAF was not happy about it They wanted not just an equivalent but a better engine than the F-22 So they upgraded their spec to a T/W ratio of over 10!
So WS-15 is a completely different beast!

Doesn't really matter how long the West has been making engines. The latecomer has the advantage of not making the same mistake. Making a jet engine is not easy only a handful country can master it. After decades of trial and error and doggedly pursuit of excellence in material science, aerodynamics, machine design, and precision manufacturing, China did it!

Case in point the West took almost 100 years to perfect the carrier operation China did it in less than 2 decades. Heck, even Indian has much longer experience with carrier operation. Now today are you saying that Indian carrier programs are more advanced than China's or vice versa?

China was a latecomer in the Automobile industry heck in the 80s most Chinese couldn't even dream of owning a car Yet Today China is the most advanced country when it comes to automobiles so much so they are petrified and have resorted to trade barriers to prevent the total collapse of their automobile industry!. I don't understand what are you trying to say But enough to say that PLA's official statement said The engine can do supercruise! with whatever weight the J 20 is

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

My understanding WS 15 requirement has been upgraded over time At one time the spec called for a T/W ratio of 10 But PLAAF was not happy about it They wanted not just an equivalent but a better engine than the F-22 So they upgraded their spec to a T/W ratio of over 10!
So WS-15 is a completely different beast!

Doesn't really matter how long the West has been making engines. The latecomer has the advantage of not making the same mistake. Making a jet engine is not easy only a handful country can master it. After decades of trial and error and doggedly pursuit of excellence in material science, aerodynamics, machine design, and precision manufacturing, China did it!

Case in point the West took almost 100 years to perfect the carrier operation China did it in less than 2 decades. Heck, even Indian has much longer experience with carrier operation. Now today are you saying that Indian carrier programs are more advanced than China's or vice versa?

China was a latecomer in the Automobile industry heck in the 80s most Chinese couldn't even dream of owning a car Yet Today China is the most advanced country when it comes to automobiles so much so they are petrified and have resorted to trade barriers to prevent the total collapse of their automobile industry!. I don't understand what are you trying to say But enough to say that PLA's official statement said The engine can do supercruise! with whatever weight the J 20 is

Don't compare jet engine development to car manufacturing? And your engine life and MTBO is still not par to the western engines

The main point of mine with WS-10 J20 have much less supercruise speed and duration of supercruising then F-22

And can you give me source or backup that PLAAF is not happy with current WS-15 and want to further upgrade?

 

[Deino]

Guys … just plain and simple, this is the thread for the J-20 and any penis contests on if India is or was ever ahead of China, any comparisons to which future fighter will be first with what type of engine or even more so to bring the PAF and the J-31 into this thread will result in immedeate warnings and bans.

 

[Hendarto]

Ha you post the article that's suit your narrative lol

Recently in this month USAF said NGAD will not close but rather than reduce its capability somehow especially in engine adaptive engine is extremely expensive so they are looking for cheaper alternatives based on either F-119 or F-135 engine but this engine is still way way ahead any jet engine that China have or going to have lollipop

So what performance is F119 ahead of China WS 10C? SUPERCRUISE YES WS 10 C CAN DO THAT. Other than your fictive imagination? And don't quote those BS performance data from you know where! PLA NEVER PUBLISHED THEIR DATA

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

So what performance is F119 ahead of China WS 10C? SUPERCRUISE YES WS 10 C CAN DO THAT. Other than your fictive imagination? And don't quote those BS performance data from you know where! PLA NEVER PUBLISHED THEIR DATA

Ha fictive in your delusional mind WS-10 can supercruise but not like that F-119 maybe CHINESE PHYSICS is working here not REAL PHYSICS LOL

And if PLA not published their data so why you're so sure that WS-10 is comparable to F-119

And as for your information USAF also not published data on F-119 we have guesstimate that it have a thrust of 35,000 lbs maybe it has more than 35.000 lbf

And you're just a BLIND ULTRA-NATIONAL TROLL who don't know technical aspects of military jets and jet engines lollipop

 

[Hendarto]

Ha fictive in your delusional mind WS-10 can supercruise but not like that F-119 maybe CHINESE PHYSICS is working here not REAL PHYSICS LOL

And if PLA not published their data so why you're so sure that WS-10 is comparable to F-119

And as for your information USAF also not published data on F-119 we have guesstimate that it have a thrust of 35,000 lbs maybe it has more than 35.000 lbf

And you're just a BLIND ULTRA-NATIONAL TROLL who don't know technical aspects of military jets and jet engines lollipop

Use Supercruise as a benchmark no need for any other metric! now you resorted to name-calling because you cannot win an argument on fact Let me remind you here is the definition of supercruise see the word sustained! No need to quibble how long yada, yada

Supercruise is sustained supersonic flight of a supersonic aircraft without using afterburner (also known as "reheat"). Many supersonic military aircraft are not capable of supercruise and can maintain Mach 1+ flight only in short bursts with afterburners. Aircraft such as the SR-71 Blackbird are designed to cruise at supersonic speed with afterburners enabled.

 

[Hendarto]

Deino you don't maintain neutrality as moderator You let your bias show in this thread. You condone name-calling and are angry with my post why? name me any other engine that can produce Supercruise Please! Be even handed

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Use Supercruise as a benchmark no need for any other metric! now you resorted to name-calling because you cannot win an argument on fact Let me remind you here is the definition of supercruise see the word sustained! No need to quibble how long yada, yada

Supercruise is sustained supersonic flight of a supersonic aircraft without using afterburner (also known as "reheat"). Many supersonic military aircraft are not capable of supercruise and can maintain Mach 1+ flight only in short bursts with afterburners. Aircraft such as the SR-71 Blackbird are designed to cruise at supersonic speed with afterburners enabled.

So tell me why you're developing and developed WS-15 for J20 if you are satisfied with WS-10 performance

And I know better than you what is supercruise

 

[Hendarto]

So tell me why you're developing and developed WS-15 for J20 if you are satisfied with WS-10 performance

And I know better than you what is supercruise

There is no such thing as "satisfied with" You have an engine with T/W = 10 You want 11. or 12 and keep working on it because the other guy will keep building a better engine. Ever heard of Keeping Ahead of the Other Guy?

Now I have a question name me more jet engines that can do supercruise. other than F119 and WS 10C.

You keep saying you are an expert but the question that you posted here doesn't indicate you are an expert like how long supercruise is a moot question!

 

[Hendarto]

PLAAf is happy with WS 10 C engine for the time being otherwise they won't build 300 copies of them and more are coming to the tune of 100 copies a year! That is the resounding proof! go ahead quibble with it. I'll report you for name-calling

I check with chatgt no such thing as AL41 do supercruise they plan to but due to budget they didn't achieve it so They plan Al 51

1. The Saturn AL-41 is a Russian military turbofan engine. The original AL-41F, designed for the MFI (Multifunctional Frontline Fighter) program, aimed for supercruise flight—meaning it could fly at speeds of Mach 1.5 without afterburner. However, due to funding disruptions and delays, the MFI program was abandoned, and the AL-41F didn’t advance beyond the prototype stage1. The AL-41 designation was later reused for upgraded variants powering the Sukhoi Su-57 and Su-35S, but these are heavily upgraded versions of the AL-31F rather than the original AL-41F design1. Supercruise is sustained supersonic flight without using afterburners, and while the Su-57 is being developed with supercruise capability, the AL-41 engine is undergoing a redesign to achieve this2.
   
   

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

PLAAf is happy with WS 10 C engine for the time being otherwise they won't build 300 copies of them and more are coming to the tune of 100 copies a year! That is the resounding proof! go ahead quibble with it. I'll report you for name-calling

I check with chatgt no such thing as AL41 do supercruise they plan to but due to budget they didn't achieve it so They plan Al 51

1. The Saturn AL-41 is a Russian military turbofan engine. The original AL-41F, designed for the MFI (Multifunctional Frontline Fighter) program, aimed for supercruise flight—meaning it could fly at speeds of Mach 1.5 without afterburner. However, due to funding disruptions and delays, the MFI program was abandoned, and the AL-41F didn’t advance beyond the prototype stage1. The AL-41 designation was later reused for upgraded variants powering the Sukhoi Su-57 and Su-35S, but these are heavily upgraded versions of the AL-31F rather than the original AL-41F design1. Supercruise is sustained supersonic flight without using afterburners, and while the Su-57 is being developed with supercruise capability, the AL-41 engine is undergoing a redesign to achieve this2.
   
   

Lol because you haven't any other option to install beyond WS-10 on J20 because WS-15 was not ready then, all respected defense websites saying that WS-15 is intended for J20 not WS-10

Keep living in your fantasy world and lala land

 

[Hendarto]

Lol because you haven't any other option to install beyond WS-10 on J20 because WS-15 was not ready then, all respected defense websites saying that WS-15 is intended for J20 not WS-10

Keep living in your fantasy world and lala land

Actually, WS 15 started LRIP in March 2023 according to AECC China aero engine manufacturer official. They are nearing final testing having been fitted into 2 prototypes or more. But the initial batch will go to the PLAAF testing base in Changzhou or Dingxin to study new tactics and air doctrine

Chinese WS-15 engine prepared for mass production

An official of China's Aero Engine Corporation of China (AECC) has said that the country's Shenyang WS-15 engine for fighter aircraft is ready for mass production.

www.janes.com

An official of China's Aero Engine Corporation of China (AECC) has said that the country's Shenyang WS-15 engine for fighter aircraft is ready for mass production.

Speaking during the Seventh China Aviation Innovation and Entrepreneurship Competition (CAIEC) in March, Zhang Yong, a project director of AECC's Beijing Institute of Aeronautical Materials, said that from “a technical point of view” the institute has “tackled all bottlenecks” associated with the production of the WS-15 engine.

“The mass production of WS-10 and WS-15 [engines] delivery has been achieved. Materials screening and verifications have been finalised,” Zhang said.

The CAIEC was held from 16 to 17 March, according to China Central Television (CCTV), the Chinese state-owned broadcaster.

Zhang said that the streamlining of the supply chain has allowed AECC to manufacture several high-temperature components for the WS-15. These include superalloy disc parts, ring parts, fasteners, and other components.

 

[Oscar]

The disclosure of information on military science and technology is part of the modern military public opinion war. Relatively speaking, the US military likes to exaggerate its capabilities, and the PLA likes to hide its capabilities.

We do not deny that today's PLA military science and technology still follow the United States in many ways.

The U.S. military took the lead in proposing the concept of hypersonic missiles and conducting relevant tests. China followed suit and succeeded, and while China had begun large-scale installations, the U.S. military still had no success in researching it.

When the Chinese saw the swarm drones in Hollywood movies automatically hunting targets driven by AI, they were very shocked. So, soon the Chinese military-industrial complex introduced this weapon. So far, we have not seen the US military equipped with such weapons systems.

The U.S. military's Independence-class littoral combat ships are in a trimaran configuration. The PLA does not endorse this approach. However, the PLA still believed that we needed to master the technology of military ships with a three-body structure, so it built three military rescue ships with a three-body structure............

There is a saying in the Chinese military fan circle: “美国负责想象，中国负责实现”United States are responsible for imagination, and Chinese are responsible for realization.

Don't pay too much attention to the data, whether it's official or speculative.

Coming soon
https://www.anduril.com/

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Actually, WS 15 started LRIP in March 2023 according to AECC China aero engine manufacturer official. They are nearing final testing having been fitted into 2 prototypes or more. But the initial batch will go to the PLAAF testing base in Changzhou or Dingxin to study new tactics and air doctrine

Chinese WS-15 engine prepared for mass production

An official of China's Aero Engine Corporation of China (AECC) has said that the country's Shenyang WS-15 engine for fighter aircraft is ready for mass production.

www.janes.com

An official of China's Aero Engine Corporation of China (AECC) has said that the country's Shenyang WS-15 engine for fighter aircraft is ready for mass production.

Speaking during the Seventh China Aviation Innovation and Entrepreneurship Competition (CAIEC) in March, Zhang Yong, a project director of AECC's Beijing Institute of Aeronautical Materials, said that from “a technical point of view” the institute has “tackled all bottlenecks” associated with the production of the WS-15 engine.

“The mass production of WS-10 and WS-15 [engines] delivery has been achieved. Materials screening and verifications have been finalised,” Zhang said.

The CAIEC was held from 16 to 17 March, according to China Central Television (CCTV), the Chinese state-owned broadcaster.

Zhang said that the streamlining of the supply chain has allowed AECC to manufacture several high-temperature components for the WS-15. These include superalloy disc parts, ring parts, fasteners, and other components.

See that's proves my point, first you install AL-31FN (stop gap engine)on J20 because WS-10 wasn't mature enough to fit on J20, and WS-15 is always said by many Chinese members here that it will reach mass production stage in 2023, you're new to the forum, but I'm on old PDF since 2011 and knows better than you know about WS-15 history