The J-20 Challenge: Can India Bridge the Fighter Jet Gap With China?

[liuzhengdong]

Tell me silly billy how on earth do you know no US radar has ever detected J-20? Were Yu in US classified briefings when they had that meeting?

The US media has never reported that the US radar detected the J-20.
US Pacific Air Force Commander Kenneth S. Wilsbach personally admitted that the F35 was intercepted by the J-20

 

[SolarWarden]

The US media has never reported that the US radar detected the J-20.

US media never reported? Why would US media have information where a US radar have detected J-20s?

US Pacific Air Force Commander Kenneth S. Wilsbach personally admitted that the F35 was intercepted by the J-20

Is that right? Please do post the source where Wilsbach "personally admitted that the F-35 was intercepted by the J-20" because I know exactly what he said in interview and it's nothing what you claim which leads me to believe that you are full of it.

I can tell you he wasn't impressed with the J-20 but by other... lets see if you know what I'm talking about.

 

[liuzhengdong]

US media never reported? Why would US media have information where a US radar have detected J-20s?

Is that right? Please do post the source where Wilsbach "personally admitted that the F-35 was intercepted by the J-20" because I know exactly what he said in interview and it's nothing what you claim which leads me to believe that you are full of it.

I can tell you he wasn't impressed with the J-20 but by other... lets see if you know what I'm talking about.

The only reason why the J-20 encountered the F35 over the East China Sea was to intercept. The J-20's training cruises are all inland and along the coast. It will not go to the East China Sea for no reason. The J-20 will only fly into the East China Sea to intercept the US stealth fighter.

 

[liuzhengdong]

US media never reported? Why would US media have information where a US radar have detected J-20s?

Is that right? Please do post the source where Wilsbach "personally admitted that the F-35 was intercepted by the J-20" because I know exactly what he said in interview and it's nothing what you claim which leads me to believe that you are full of it.

I can tell you he wasn't impressed with the J-20 but by other... lets see if you know what I'm talking about.

China has deployed meter-wave anti-stealth radars in coastal areas, while the United States is still developing anti-stealth radars.
The meter-wave radar first detected the US F35 fighter and guided the J-20 to intercept it. The J-20 fighter used EODAS to passively detect, identify, track and intercept the F35 without emitting electromagnetic signals.

 

[SolarWarden]

The only reason why the J-20 encountered the F35 over the East China Sea was to intercept. The J-20's training cruises are all inland and along the coast. It will not go to the East China Sea for no reason. The J-20 will only fly into the East China Sea to intercept the US stealth fighter.

Lol. Wow the crap you make up in your mind is amazing... Amazing because you actually believe what you posted even though you have absolutely no idea why the encounter, which was not an intercept, happened.

Get this through your head... The only times F-35's fly without luneburg-lense is over Syria and when it was made public by USAF of F-35's flying over Poland a week after Russia invaded.


Other than that F-35's ALWAYS fly with Luneburg lenses even when flying IRS along the chinese coast, patrolling Persian Gulf and even F-35I's flying off the cost of Beirut


Lets see Yu worm your way of this one.....

China's J-20 stealth jet has taken to the skies — but India says its fighters can spot it easily​

• China recently made history as the first country besides the US to field stealth aircraft with its J-20 fighter.
• But the Indian Defence Research Wing says its Russian-made Su-30MKI fighter jets can spot the supposedly-stealth J-20s.
• Unlike the US's F-22 and F-35 stealth jets, the J-20 doesn't have all aspect stealth.

China's J-20 stealth jet has taken to the skies — but India says its fighters can spot it easily

Bronk explained that unlike the US's F-22 and F-35 stealth jets, the J-20 doesn't have all aspect stealth. This means that from some angles, the J-20 isn't stealthy. A senior stealth scientist previously told Business Insider the J-20 is stealthiest from the front end.

www.businessinsider.com

Pfft. If Indian non AESA MKI fighters can spot J-20's US radar can not only spot J-20's but know if J-20 pilot is wearing underwear.

 

[SolarWarden]

China has deployed meter-wave anti-stealth radars in coastal areas, while the United States is still developing anti-stealth radars.
The meter-wave radar first detected the US F35 fighter and guided the J-20 to intercept it. The J-20 fighter used EODAS to passively detect, identify, track and intercept the F35 without emitting electromagnetic signals.

 

[fitpOsitive]

India has an ambitious lineup to achieve self-reliance in building indigenous fighter jets. Apart from the variants of Light Combat Aircraft, the Indian defense industry has been given the government’s nod to develop the fifth-generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) in 2024. However, the fact remains that by the time the AMCA starts flying, China will have fielded 1000 J-20 ‘Mighty Dragon’ 5th-generation jets.

After being the second country in the world to have an operational 5th-generation fighter jet in its fleet, China is already moving to develop 6th-generation fighter jet technologies.

J-20 is a twinjet all-weather stealth 5th-generation fighter aircraft designed by China’s Chengdu Aerospace Corporation of the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF). It took to the skies for the first time on January 11, 2011, and was officially revealed in 2016.

The Mighty Dragons entered service in 2017, and PLAAF already has over 200 fighter jets in its fleet. The goal is to take the number to 400 by 2027 and 1,000 by 2035. China has deployed at least six J-20s less than 150 kilometers (km) from the de facto border with India in the Sikkim region.

The J-20 is a single-seater, multi-role stealth fighter designed to combine both air superiority and precision strike capabilities. Presently, the IAF has its fleet of 36 French-built Rafale combat jets to counter J-20s. Shigatse, where the PLAAF’s J-20s have been reportedly deployed, is located less than 290 km from Hasimara air base in West Bengal, where the IAF has based its second squadron of 18 Rafale jets.



China is still struggling with the engines of its fighter jets. However, as the first country in Asia to field an operational stealth aircraft, it will have a lead of nearly one and a half decades to mature its 5th-generation fighter jet capabilities when the Indian AMCA is planned to enter service.

“India is still evolving technologies for its fifth-generation aircraft, the AMCA. India is also still a ‘work-in-progress’ in technologies related to aero-engines, AESA radars, EW systems, modern weapons, actionable Artificial Intelligence (AI), and other advanced avionics,” Air Marshal Anil Chopra (retired), an Indian Air Force (IAF) has written.

Undoubtedly, there has been a clamor in the military experts in India for India to expedite its timeline.

The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) sanctioned Rs. 15,000 crores ($1.9B) to design and develop AMCA only in March 2024. The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) under the Defense Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) will be the nodal agency for the development of the aircraft. The aircraft will be manufactured by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

The HAL is already working on augmenting its capability to manufacture more LCA Mk1A to meet the IAF order. After that, the work will be done on LCA MK 2. Then, it will be the turn of AMCA.

The ADA has been assertive that the 25-ton twin-engine AMCA will be at par or even superior to other 5th-generation stealth fighters globally when it materializes.

“At current technology levels, going alone will not be a practical option for India. India must hasten the LCA Mk2 and AMCA and get its MUM-T “Loyal Wingman” technology right. Many countries have collaborative routes. Should India join the GCAP or the French-led FCAS program? These are hard calls to make. Collaboration means sharing costs and risks,” Air Marshal Chopra ruminates.



J-20 in Action: Screengrab
The Choice Between Self-Reliance & Capability
To add to the IAF’s predicament, a large chunk of its fleet comprises third-generation fighter jets, even as its two major adversaries in Asia have been rapidly inducting and deploying newer fighter jets. India’s bête-noir Pakistan could possibly acquire a fifth-generation fighter before AMCA.

Turkey announced in 2023 that it is starting negotiations with Pakistan to make it an official partner in combat aircraft development. The culmination of a series of bungling by the Indian defense establishment and top brass of the IAF over the years has resulted in the force staring at two lost decades of technological advancement.

Delayed acquisition and slow development of indigenous fighter jets have resulted in the IAF with dwindling units of aging fighter jets to defend the Indian airspace. As reported by the EurAsian Times, the IAF now has more surface-to-air missile units than fighter jets.



India’s quest for the next generation of fighter jets began almost 15 years ago when it joined hands with Russia to develop the Fifth Generation Fighter Jet (FGFA).

The DRDO has often been criticized for setting up ambitious timelines only to miss them. The Project Director of AMCA, Dr. AK Ghosh, had stated during DefExpo-2022: “Once the project sanction is received, the prototype can be rolled out in three years and the first flight in one to one and half years after that.” However, the IAF received the claim with a dollop of salt.

In November 2022, the Chief of the Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari, advised“prudence.” He recommended foreign tie-ups as a fallback for developing “alternative systems and sensors” in case Indigenous development slips off the timeline.

Following the remarks from the IAF Chief, DRDO Chairman Samir Kamat announced a redone timeline on February 14, 2023. As per it, the first flight of the AMCA “may take seven years, and the induction can be done in ten years from now.” The first flight timeline had already been pushed back from 2027 to 2030, and the induction was slated for 2035.

“Based on their track records and their proclivity for over-projection, there can be little doubt that DRDO and HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Limited) leadership will be forced to push back timelines and seek performance concessions due to technology shortfalls during the AMCA project,” IAF veteran Vijaindra K Thakur wrote in an article for the EurAsian Times.



The Integrated Wind Tunnel (IWT) model of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)
An instance of these over-ambitious timelines is the Turkish KAAN fighter jet, whose development began at the same time as the AMCA project. The core group to develop the Indian stealth fighter was formed in 2009 with five defense scientists—Ashish Kumar Ghosh, Krishna Rajendra Neeli, MB Angadi, AK Vinayagam, and Fairoza Naushad. Turkey’s Defense Industry Executive Committee (SSIK) decided to develop a next-generation air-superiority fighter in December 2010.

While the Indian project is still on the drawing board, the Turkish Aerospace Industry’s aircraft has already undertaken its maiden flight.

Thakur adds: “While giving its go-ahead to the project, it is essential that the CCS be aware of the pitfalls and remain alert to the impact of project delays on the combat capability of the IAF. The nation can afford to wait for the AMCA but cannot afford to let its guard down.”

The Modi Government 3.0 must maintain a balance between self-reliance or ‘Atma-nirbharata’ and the capability of the armed forces. The military’s lethality and capability should be commensurate with the security challenges faced by the country.

Ritu Sharma has been a journalist for over a decade, writing on defense, foreign affairs, and nuclear technology.
The author can be reached at ritu.sharma (at) mail.com
Follow EurAsian Times on Google News

Think of a world, where dollar is equivalent to Pakistani currency. A world where majority of Chinese offshore assets already drowned with US economy. A world where India already lost her major economy creditors like ME, US and Europe and China apparently has no purpose in attacking India.
It will be better for both India and China to safe money for the economic meltdown that is very very near( a year or so).

Russia better be ready to establish new relationships with Europe. And this time try to talk to them why they are afraid of you.

Friendships and enmities are about to change very very soon.

Israel will be left orphan and man they don't have any idea what have they done in ME for a country that doesn't care for anyone. This European checkpost in ME will be abandoned soon.

 

[SolarWarden]

Back on topic... (which is hard when going back and forth with a fanboy) the only solution for India is TEMPEST just look how long it took for Tejas. India joining TEMPEST they can finally start flying a stealth fighter by late 2030's if they go solo with AMCA it's mid 2040's at best.

Right now China has the upper hand in an air war and controlling the skies you also tend to have the advantage on the ground. Just so you know when TEMPEST goes IOC it's going to be limited in capabilities just like when F-35 went IOC in block 2b but if the buy F-35 for stop gap they will get them in block 4+ and by that F-35 will be a whole different fighter.

 

[UKBengali]

Back on topic... (which is hard when going back and forth with a fanboy) the only solution for India is TEMPEST just look how long it took for Tejas. India joining TEMPEST they can finally start flying a stealth fighter by late 2030's if they go solo with AMCA it's mid 2040's at best.

Right now China has the upper hand in an air war and controlling the skies you also tend to have the advantage on the ground. Just so you know when TEMPEST goes IOC it's going to be limited in capabilities just like when F-35 went IOC in block 2b but if the buy F-35 for stop gap they will get them in block 4+ and by that F-35 will be a whole different fighter.

Dude, on the one hand you say that China has upper hand but then laugh at China as IAF SU-30MKIs can detect J-20s.

Which is it as your two beliefs contradict each other?

 

[SolarWarden]

Dude, on the one hand you say that China has upper hand but then laugh at China as IAF SU-30MKIs can detect J-20s.

Which is it as your two beliefs contradict each other?

Clearly what I'm doing has completely gone over your head. The china fanboy can't have it both ways so I showed him and he did what I thought he would do. Clearly he has been exposed as a troll by his own post to my reply.

 

[SolarWarden]

If you can't refute it, just say I'm talking nonsense. I'll show you a map of the East China Sea. Can you explain why the J-20 and F-35 met over the East China Sea?
If you believe in India so much, why don't you drink Indian cow urine?
Americans like to drink boy urine because it contains mysterious powers that are good for health. Do you want to see the photo?
View attachment 49036

I'm still wafting for your proof where Wilsbach said J-20s intercepted F-35's. Until then pound sand.

 

[huanghong]

I'm still wafting for your proof where Wilsbach said J-20s intercepted F-35's. Until then pound sand.

US Air Force (USAF) General Kenneth Wilsbach, Commander, Pacific Air Forces, said on Mar. 14, 2022 during a discussion posted on the YouTube channel of the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies (see the video below) that US Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II stealth fighters have had at least one encounter with Chinese Chengdu J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighters, and that the Shaanxi KJ-500 airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft has a key role in long-range air-to-air kill chains.

However, as first noted by Flight Global, Wilsbach did not specify when the F-35/J-20 encounter took place, or if there have been more than one.

“It’s a bit early to say what they intend to do with the J-20, so really all we’ve seen it do is air superiority,” he said about the role played by the Mighty Dragon.

“But we notice that they are flying it pretty well. We recently had – I wouldn’t call it an engagement – where we got relatively close to the J-20s along with our F-35s in the East China Sea, and we’re relatively impressed with the command and control associated with the J-20.”

 

[Nuffle]

Which is exactly my point.

All these US fanboys saying US IS ahead of China is frankly a little on the pathetic side.

I get it from US posters but why do non-US posters do it as well?!

US technology is proven to be better than Russian but they have not moved ahead in like 2 decades electronically, whereas China surpassed Russia around a decade ago and keeps moving forward.

I'm not American nor am I a fanboy, but it's definitely coherent and even lucid to say that the US is ahead of China in relation to military technology.

The only question is how far ahead the Americans are in relation to China.

 

[SolarWarden]

US Air Force (USAF) General Kenneth Wilsbach, Commander, Pacific Air Forces, said on Mar. 14, 2022 during a discussion posted on the YouTube channel of the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies (see the video below) that US Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II stealth fighters have had at least one encounter with Chinese Chengdu J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighters, and that the Shaanxi KJ-500 airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft has a key role in long-range air-to-air kill chains.

However, as first noted by Flight Global, Wilsbach did not specify when the F-35/J-20 encounter took place, or if there have been more than one.

“It’s a bit early to say what they intend to do with the J-20, so really all we’ve seen it do is air superiority,” he said about the role played by the Mighty Dragon.

“But we notice that they are flying it pretty well. We recently had – I wouldn’t call it an engagement – where we got relatively close to the J-20s along with our F-35s in the East China Sea, and we’re relatively impressed with the command and control associated with the J-20.”

So where does he say F-35's were intercepted by J-20's like Yu claimed?

Did Yu read carefully the final paragraph of your post because it seems Yu didn't. He's not impressed with J-20 but "relatively impressed with command and control associated with the J-20." Meaning he was surprised Yu people weren't as incompetent as he thought but in a passive insult kind of way which is why he used "relatively." The AWACS and other command and control aircraft and GCI controlling the J-20s was kinda professional.

 

[Hendarto]

With the exception of engines PLA flankers at the time were equal or even a bit more advanced than SU-35 export version. Yu don't buy two squadrons worth of SU-35's to "kick the tires" to know where the SU-35 is to their J-11B and J-16.

Not really, SU-35 has a better range than J-11B or J 16 due to better aerodynamics. Overall J 16 is better due to better avionics, longer-range BVR missile, and radar. But SU-35- outrange J16. It has nothing to do with Chinese engine development. If anything China wants to see the airframe.

You cannot buy just 12 pieces Russia won't allow it.