The J-20 Challenge: Can India Bridge the Fighter Jet Gap With China?

[huanghong]

So where does he say F-35's were intercepted by J-20's like Yu claimed?

Did Yu read carefully the final paragraph of your post because it seems Yu didn't. He's not impressed with J-20 but "relatively impressed with command and control associated with the J-20." Meaning he was surprised Yu people weren't as incompetent as he thought but in a passive insult kind of way which is why he used "relatively." The AWACS and other command and control aircraft and GCI controlling the J-20s was kinda professional.

No, his statement only proves that a close encounter between the J-20 and the F-35 occurred. As for other performance evaluations, they are meaningless. We cannot expect a US military official to praise Chinese weapons. The only exception is when they need to ask Congress for defense budget.

Just like when Kenneth Wilsbach wanted to buy the E-7, he suddenly claimed that the E-3 could not detect the J-20 in time at a sufficient distance.
Apparently, he suddenly forgot that like the F-35, the J-20 would use a Longbo len to cover up its true RCS data when performing missions. At this time, the J-20 is not a target that the E-3 cannot find, just like an ordinary fighter. So, how credible is such a guy's evaluation of the J-20?

“Our E-3 fleet really struggles from a maintenance reliability standpoint,” says Wilsbach. “We have four of them in PACAF and often times all four of them are not able to fly because of maintenance issues.”
“When it gets airborne, those sensors that we rely on with the E-3 aren’t really capable in the 21st century fight, especially against a platform like the [Chengdu] J-20 or something similar to that. It just can’t see those platforms far enough out to be able to provide an advantage to the shooters.”

As for the E-7, which is operated by regional US allies Australia and South Korea, Wilsbach says it is both more capable and reliable. The USAF is considering a potential E-7 acquisition.

 

[SolarWarden]

No, his statement only proves that a close encounter between the J-20 and the F-35 occurred. As for other performance evaluations, they are meaningless. We cannot expect a US military official to praise Chinese weapons. The only exception is when they need to ask Congress for defense budget.

Yu claimed Wilsbach said J-20's intercepted F-35's and I called you out on it and Yu have proven yourself to be full of sht!

Just like when Kenneth Wilsbach wanted to buy the E-7, he suddenly claimed that the E-3 could not detect the J-20 in time at a sufficient distance.
Apparently, he suddenly forgot that like the F-35, the J-20 would use a Longbo len to cover up its true RCS data when performing missions. At this time, the J-20 is not a target that the E-3 cannot find, just like an ordinary fighter. So, how credible is such a guy's evaluation of the J-20?

“Our E-3 fleet really struggles from a maintenance reliability standpoint,” says Wilsbach. “We have four of them in PACAF and often times all four of them are not able to fly because of maintenance issues.”
“When it gets airborne, those sensors that we rely on with the E-3 aren’t really capable in the 21st century fight, especially against a platform like the [Chengdu] J-20 or something similar to that. It just can’t see those platforms far enough out to be able to provide an advantage to the shooters.”

As for the E-7, which is operated by regional US allies Australia and South Korea, Wilsbach says it is both more capable and reliable. The USAF is considering a potential E-7 acquisition.

Are you dumb or something? Wilsbach just proved my claim of US Generals and the MIC. The E3 aircraft itself is old but the fleet upgrade of its avionics just ended in 2020. What else would he say, nah we're good with E3 we don't need the latest and most advanced AWACS ever built by US/world that only allies are using.. That's dumb on your part. Yu and your fellow celestial fanboys love to use US quotes in articles that favor PLA and unfavor US but when US Generals talk about not concerned of J-20's capability then Yu take issue.

I'm almost wishing for a conflict just so that it can shut you fanboys up and humble you because it is not going to end well for PLA.

 

[huanghong]

Yu claimed Wilsbach said J-20's intercepted F-35's and I called you out on it and Yu have proven yourself to be full of sht!

Your idea is too stupid. I have never supported any of Kenneth Wilsbach's comments on the performance of the J-20.
I quoted his comments only to prove that he did say that the J-20 and the F-35 had a confrontation. It seems that in your eyes, a confrontation is not an interception, but a kiss?

Are you dumb or something? Wilsbach just proved my claim of US Generals and the MIC. The E3 aircraft itself is old but the fleet upgrade of its avionics just ended in 2020. What else would he say, nah we're good with E3 we don't need the latest and most advanced AWACS ever built by US/world that only allies are using.. That's dumb on your part. Yu and your fellow celestial fanboys love to use US quotes in articles that favor PLA and unfavor US but when US Generals talk about not concerned of J-20's capability then Yu take issue.

I'm almost wishing for a conflict just so that it can shut you fanboys up and humble you because it is not going to end well for PLA.

Stop dreaming. You claim that the US is satisfied with the E-3 and does not need to buy the E-7. However, the US is accelerating the purchase of the E-7. You are simply living in a dream.

US Air Force eyes advance procurement to more quickly make E-7 planes

With the clock ticking on retiring the Air Force's aging E-3 Sentry fleet, every second counts on building the E-7s that will replace them.

www.defensenews.com

Your idea is too stupid
You are a self-contradictory guy. When this gentleman talks about the performance of J-20, you adopt his point of view, and when he claims that E-3 cannot detect J-20 in time, you claim that E-3's performance is satisfactory enough. I can draw a conclusion that obviously you will be satisfied only when this gentleman's remarks are in line with your point of view.

Wow, I think so too, but the Americans are not taking action. The Filipinos are asking for help from the Americans, but the Americans are only using your mouth.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Are you dumb or something? Wilsbach just proved my claim of US Generals and the MIC. The E3 aircraft itself is old but the fleet upgrade of its avionics just ended in 2020. What else would he say, nah we're good with E3 we don't need the latest and most advanced AWACS ever built by US/world that only allies are using.. That's dumb on your part. Yu and your fellow celestial fanboys love to use US quotes in articles that favor PLA and unfavor US but when US Generals talk about not concerned of J-20's capability then Yu take issue.

I'm almost wishing for a conflict just so that it can shut you fanboys up and humble you because it is not going to end well for PLA

Actually USAF wants E-7 to replace E-3

 

[SolarWarden]

Actually USAF wants E-7 to replace E-3

Yeah I know that but it's not because the E3 supposedly can't see the J-20 it's because the plane itself is old with high maintenance time because of its age

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Yeah I know that but it's not because the E3 supposedly can't see the J-20 it's because the plane itself is old with high maintenance time because of its age

No technology is in E-3 is cold war era, radar is old, EW/ECM and ECCM antennas are old overall E-3 uses old technology and how can you assume that it can see J20s at long range?

 

[Pingle]

CHINA MIGHT WELL BE THE ONLY COUNTRY WITH IMMEDIATELY DEPLOYABLE USABLE THERMO NUKES
AND IF USA WANT TO USE EVEN ONE NUKE

===================================================================================================

Sailing their carriers up and down in phony FONOPs.

And a great game to bully China for the fun of it.

And screaming if their carriers are touched, China will be in a big world of hurting.

As if America the only one with nukes and happy to toss them about like confetti.


And please do not talk of nukes. China might well be the only country
with fully functional H Bombs
Chinese H Bombs are done to the YuMing configuration requiring very little maintenance.
Muricans do their H bombs to the Ulam Teller configuration needing lots of maintenances.

Each warhead needs to have about 200 milligrams of fresh tritium added every year. Here’s a pic showing W80s having their gas changed.

How many American H Bombs can go kaboom immediately? Not many.


When China was still almost in stone age condition in 1960s, China still developed the Hydrogen Bomb 3.3 Mtons just 32 months in June 1967 after China first fission bomb. China was using teams of Chinese working away at abacus as they had no computers or even electronic calculators then.

We all know China is a lot more advanced since the mid 60s.
US intelligence projection made late in the 1960s that China would have 435 nuclear weapons by 1973.
Karber’s report mentioned that “PRC data in 1995 gave the figure at 2,350.”

We all know China is a lot more advanced since 1995.

Why You Should Fear China's Nuclear Weapons

Underground Great Wall of China - Wikipedia
And remember the DF5s and DF31AG as well. About 100 or more of them, mirving 10 nukes or more.
China has at least three brigades of DF-5 missiles. Assuming all three brigades have been modernized, that's 360 thermonuclear warheads with a half-megaton on each warhead.
3 brigades DF-5B ICBM x 12 missiles per brigade x 10 MIRVs per missile = 360 thermonuclear warheads carried on DF-5B ICBMs

DF-5B got throw weight of 5,000 kgs
In 2017, China successfully completed tests of DF-5C. Presumably with greater throw weight and greater accuracy in targetting.

7 brigades DF-31A ICBM (since 2007 introduction and adding one brigade per year) x 12 missiles per brigade x 3 MIRVs = 252 thermonuclear warheads carried on DF-31A ICBMs (assuming NO RELOAD missile per TEL; if you assume ONE reload missile per TEL then you double the number of warheads to 504 thermonuclear warheads).

Since then, China tested and got operational DF31AG and DF31B. Obviously able to throw more warheads than the DF31A. The DF31s are solid fuel and can fire within 3 to 5 minutes.

And the H-6K bombers. H-6K can carry up to six YJ-12 and 6-7 ALCMs; and air launched missiles (CH-AS-X-13)
As at 2015, there are 15 numbers of H-6Ks, and 150 numbers of assorted H-6s.
Using just H-6Ks, there will be need for 15X10 , or 150 thermonuclear bombs.
2015 is 5 years ago. You can be sure there will be even more numbers of H-6K, and even more advanced bombers being build by China.

DF-41 - Wikipedia

The Dong Feng 41 (CSS-X-10) is a road- and rail-mobile intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM). The DF-41 completed all testing stages and deployed in the People’s Republic of China (PRC) since 2017. It is estimated to have an operational range of 12,000 to 15,000 km, which would make it the longest range missile in operation. It will likely have a top speed of Mach 25 and will be capable of delivering up to 10 MIRVed warheads. Throw weight of DF-41 is 2,500 kg.

The DF-41 is a three-stage solid-fueled intercontinental ballistic missile reported to have a maximum range of up to 15,000 kilometers (more than 9320 miles) and a top speed of Mach 25 (19,030 mph). It is said to be capable of carrying up to 10 multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle (MIRVs). Its launch preparation time is estimated to be between 3 to 5 minutes.

This would make the DF-41 the world's longest range missile, surpassing the range of the US LGM-30 Minuteman which has a reported range of 13,000 km. Throw weight of LGM-30 is only 1000kg or just 3 numbers of 170kton nukes. USA UGM-133 Trident II throw weight is only 2,800 kg.



Four brigades of DF-41 ICBMs (Heilongjiang, Henan, Xinjiang, and Tibet Provinces) with one re-load per DF-41 TEL yields 96 total DF-41 ICBMs.
How many brigades of DF-41 since 2017 number of 4 brigades?
6 Brigades or 8 Brigades?

Reported DF-41 Deployment: China 'Responding to US Missile Defense in Asia'
Expert: DF-41 among most advanced missiles in the world


If China got only 260 thermonukes like what everyone is saying and hoping, the surplus warheads will be delivering dim sum and tea bags and cleaned pressed laundry from Chinese laundrymen.

Please remember DF-41 got a very big brother coming up as well in case you think DF-41 not worthy enough to deliver dim sum and tea bags and cleaned laundry.
Russia’s RS-28 “Sarmat” ten-ton payload, rated as the most dangerous ICBM . Reportedly it may carry up to fifteen 350 kiloton warheads, or up to twenty-four of the new “Avangard” nuclear-armed Hypersonic Glide Vehicle (HGV) warheads. Sarmat will be dwarfed by Chinese new missile with even larger twenty-ton payload. That will be solid-fuel space-launch vehicle (SLV), and could form the basis for what might become the world’s largest “mobile” ICBM.
The Next China Military Threat: The World's Biggest Mobile ICBM?


SSBNs
Type 094 Jin Class SSBN

Currently 6 of type 094 but projected to be 8 in years to come.
Carrying 12 numbers of JL-2, mirving 3–4 thermonuclear warheads.
Or 288 nuclear warheads

Type 096 Tang Class SSBN
This is similar to Ohio Class

Carrying 24 JL-3 missiles , each mirving 5–7 warheads.
Currently, 6 numbers of 096 SSBNs are being build simultaneously.
Using 6x24x5, we have 720 thermonuclear warheads.

Or at least 1000 nukes can be delivered by China.
Or the warheads delivered are empty. Or used to deliver dim sums, General Tso chicken, wulung tea bags and cleaned laundry by Chink laundrymen, express delivery.

If China is ever turned into a nuclear wasteland, those that send nukes into China will be nuked into glowing and molten multicolored wasteland.

China promised never to use the first nuke. But if just one nuke land on China or her forces, ALL THE USA BASES FROM EUROPE, DIEGO GARCIA , SINGAPORE . JAPAN AND USA HERSELF WILL BE SEAS AND LAKES OF MOLTEN MULTI COLOR GLASS.
None of the USA carriers will be spared. The carriers will be taken out with nukes even if the carriers hide in Frisco Bay or in the Atlantic Ocean or any other ocean.

And as demonstrated so clearly in KSA a few days ago, the Aegis and Patriot systems defending Saudi a joke as the Aegis and Patriot cannot even detect a few sub Mach cruise missiles not to talk of taking them down. Even to now, no one sure where those came from and who flown them. Despite overlapping coverage of those Patriot and Aegis systems.
New sales pitch? US makes the world’s ‘finest’ anti-air systems, but sometimes they just don’t work, Pompeo explains
Saudi air defenses like Patriot & Aegis don’t match their advertised properties, unfit for real combat – Russian Army (MAP)

How will the Patriot systems in USA defend against ICBMs coming in at speed of Mach 25 when they cannot even detect missiles at sub Mach or even know where the missiles came from despite overlapping coverage?

Allies of the country that nuke China will not go unpunished as well. Whether they could not stop USA or do not want to stop USA or USA do not want to listen to them will be irrelevant to China.
A nuked China will be very very weak. And China recalled the days where the British and French and Japan and USA came to carve her up when China was weak.
China will not allow that to happen again. China will ensure those countries will be weaker than a nuked China, or exist only in name after a nuked China

So please let peace prevail and it is irrelevant whether you think China only got 260 nukes
The lucky ones will be those that die in the first micro second.
Those still alive a year later will wish they gone at the very beginning.

And why the war fought or even started, no one will give a flying **** as to the reasons.

Even so, China never ever threatened to use nukes. Other than if nuke used on China, China will retaliate and use nukes as well.

So please be peaceful and respectful and more courtesy, and no more phony FONOPs and playing games of who will blink with China with phony FONOPs. Do not play with fire regarding Taiwan. AND DO NOT THREATEN TO NUKE CHINA.

Never ever dare to talk NUCLEAR against USA... this is the country that taught world to spell the word NUCLEAR.....

 

[Falcon26]

India doesn’t need to worry about the J-20. They got the LCA Tejas which is a phenomenal warplane that can overwhelm the J-20s when backed by the Netra AWACS.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Looking at the sorry state of the IAF, one has to admit the professionalism of the PAF. While having 10x less resources it is keeping no baskets empty: J-10, JF17 blk 3, AWACs, EW/EA, UAVs of all sorts, SAM etc. coupled with the projected acquisition of J-31, KAAN, HAVASOJ etc. And, its clear objective is to get into the next gen cooperative air combat concept of incorporating stealthy KIZILELMA and ANKA-3 type unmanned platforms into air battle groups for both air dominance and deep strikes....

No wonder the former Bharati military czar relegated the IAF to a support arm. Can't blame him though for the following picture, where a grim-faced female officer is pointing to the debris of a PAF missile that has clearly hit its target, leaves nothing to imagination......

 

[Thinking]

This is a wonderful thread. India needs to do these things:
1) Build its economy
2) Builds its navy
3) Builds it missile offense/defense
4) Radars, electronic warfare measures etc..

China is next door. India can do without planes. You just need to grind cities, right? War is a costly affair and no plane "armada" has won war in a long time. Why waste time on expensive planes. Build cheaper missiles and bombs. Lots of them.