Chinese 6th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[UKBengali]

Their current NGAD design is pretty much lightweight compared to CAC's 6th gen, only comparable to SAC's 6th gen.

They need to redesign everything in order to make the new NGAD being comparable to the mighty J-36.

Maybe they have realized that to redesign the NGAD will be much more time consuming and costly compared to the upgrade F-22 raptor.

Also, the F-35 program is their golden goose, and a lot of their allies have already placed order for the new batches of F-35. So you cannot simply cancel it without any substitution plan.

Agreed but they will *find* the money to carry on with NGAD. My comment did not mean cancelling but radically cutting back on US orders for F-35. The plane is a Turkey anyway and so they would be doing themselves a favour.

NGAD will be superior to upgraded F-22 and one is not a substitute for the other.

I agree that they did not even think of designing something like the J-36 and so NGAD will compete with J-50. At least they have something that is 6th generation that way.

Whatever days of US air superiority will be over once 6th generation is out.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

people talking about an NGAD flying in 2019 are just coping because it isn't going to be the thing that flies if NGAD survives.

The J-36 or even the J-50 are simply out of scope during that era.

Now the US wants to change the definition of the 6th gen fighter.

According to their new definition, the 6th gen aerial dominance isn't just about the aircraft, but the total combined reconnaissance & integrated AI for unmanned aerial strike.

So they will now consider B21 + F-22B with advanced AI & loyal wingmen to be 6th gen fighter as well.

 

[UKBengali]

I can see that being the case.They started NGAD as a replacement for the F-22, but only recently got around to recognizing the need for a distributed data framework enabling wingmen drones.

That shows you how poor the US military industrial complex is compared to China.

In China it is all about hiring the best to create the best products. No politics or corruption gets in the way of creating the best products to defend China and its interests.

Whereas, in US it is about hiring the cheapest(Indian coders for 737-Max) and giving kickbacks to politicians to get even more contracts and large bonuses for the board of directors.

Whoever thought that US could complete with the efficient industrial might of China is an absolute lunatic.

 

[FHN]

The J-36 or even the J-50 are simply out of scope during that era.

Now the US wants to change the definition of the 6th gen fighter.

According to their new definition, the 6th gen aerial dominance isn't just about the aircraft, but the total combined reconnaissance & integrated AI for unmanned aerial strike.

So they will now consider B21 + F-22B with advanced AI & loyal wingmen to be 6th gen fighter as well.

J-36 is designed with super cruise capability. With 3 high powered WS-10/15 engines, it can optimize its speed with extended range. This is not a subsonic stealth bomber like the B-2/21.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Their current NGAD design is pretty much lightweight compared to CAC's 6th gen, only comparable to SAC's 6th gen.

They need to redesign everything in order to make the new NGAD being comparable to the mighty J-36.

Maybe they have realized that to redesign the NGAD will be much more time consuming and costly compared to the upgrade F-22 raptor.

Also, the F-35 program is their golden goose, and a lot of their allies have already placed order for the new batches of F-35. So you cannot simply cancel it without any substitution plan.

J36 is oversized 6th gen jet, and mainly for CAS/maritime strike role according to various respected Chinese members here, can't have the maneuverability and agility like upcoming US NGAD and 8-10 BVRs are enough for J36 and J50

 

[FHN]

That shows you how poor the US military industrial complex is compared to China.

In China it is all about hiring the best to create the best products. No politics or corruption gets in the way of creating the best products to defend China and its interests.

Whereas, in US it is about hiring the cheapest(Indian coders for 737-Max) and giving kickbacks to politicians to get even more contracts and large bonuses for the board of directors.

Whoever thought that US could complete with the efficient industrial might of China is an absolute lunatic.

Northrop Grumman calls the B-21 “6th Gen” because it can perform most of the NGAD mission, albeit subsonic lol

 

[FHN]

The subsonic stealth strike concept of B-21 is fundamentally flawed because even if you had enough CCA to overpower defenders locally, if you don't fly fast enough to get in/get out. We should start treating CCA like infantry in a land battle. There will be 1000s-10000s engaged simultaneously. It won't be the 10s-100s type of air battle from the previous century.

 

[UKBengali]

The subsonic stealth strike concept of B-21 is fundamentally flawed because even if you had enough CCA to overpower defenders locally, if you don't fly fast enough to get in/get out. We should start treating CCA like infantry in a land battle. There will be 1000s-10000s engaged simultaneously. It won't be the 10s-100s type of air battle from the previous century.

It is a dumb idea as when the bombs are dropped the enemy is alerted and due to your subsonic speed you are sitting duck afterwards.

What would have made sense is a Mach 2.5 bomber that could get out of there as fast as possible after dropping its payloads and not be vulnerable to fighter interception like the J-36.

 

[iblini]

and mainly for CAS/maritime strike role

We have talked about this many times, it's much more than a striker, they wouldn't be putting luxury sensors, radars for a fighter bomber, and there is no such thing as a fighter bomber in future air warfare to begin with.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

J-36 is designed with super cruise capability. With 3 high powered WS-10/15 engines, it can optimize its speed with extended range. This is not a subsonic stealth bomber like the B-2/21.

The US just wants to find the definition that suits to their propaganda need.

If they can label B-21 as the first 6th fighter, then they are surely going to label the F-22B as a 6th gen fighter as well.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

J36 is oversized 6th gen jet, and mainly for CAS/maritime strike role according to various respected Chinese members here, can't have the maneuverability and agility like upcoming US NGAD and 8-10 BVRs are enough for J36 and J50

The supermaneuverability isn't going to the main concern for the 6th gen figher.

The J-36 is going to emphasize about the speed/range/payload, whereas the J-50 is smaller to be boarded on PLAN's future supercarriers.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

It is a dumb idea as when the bombs are dropped the enemy is alerted and due to your subsonic speed you are sitting duck afterwards.

What would have made sense is a Mach 2.5 bomber that could get out of there as fast as possible after dropping its payloads and not be vulnerable to fighter interception like the J-36.

That's why it took China so long to design the H-20 strategic bomber.

Because China doesn't want anything subsonic like the B-2/B-21 as it is not going to survive in the modern battlefield even you got good stealth, but still too slow and will get intercepted by 6th gen fighter or even 5th gen fighter.

 

[iblini]

The supermaneuverability isn't going to the main concern for the 6th gen figher.

The J-36 is going to emphasize about the speed/range/payload, whereas the J-50 is smaller to be boarded on PLAN's future supercarriers.

mostly Power generation.

 

[UKBengali]

The supermaneuverability isn't going to the main concern for the 6th gen figher.

The J-36 is going to emphasize about the speed/range/payload, whereas the J-50 is smaller to be boarded on PLAN's future supercarriers.

It could act like a "mothership" and will fly with AI "Loyal Wingman" that move ahead and take data from it and pass data back using secure encrypted data links.

The "Loyal Wingman" may use its huge and powerful radar to identify and track targets that they can then engage with their missiles In return it may rely on "Loyal Wingman" flying hundreds of kms ahead to send targeting data to it in order to engage with its extreme long range PL-17 missiles.

In essence this is a completely new way of air warfare as this platform will have a massive radar and extremely power sensors and processing power that it can do things that were previously not even imagined.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

The supermaneuverability isn't going to the main concern for the 6th gen figher.

The J-36 is going to emphasize about the speed/range/payload, whereas the J-50 is smaller to be boarded on PLAN's future supercarriers.

last ditch effort to avoid enemy is maneuverability/agility if enemy will avoid your all bvrs via ew, so you're wrong about maneuverability and agility is not necessary for 6th gen jets