Chinese Economy: General News, Updates and Discussions

US dollar based GDP is stock market bloated, inflation boosted and currency manipulated, it's only good on paper but has no real substance, not even Americans believe it.

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The US governments own economic projections has the US growing to $80T GDP in 30 years, with salary disbursement over $34T to the US working population

Do you understand the amount of hard power the US will accumulate with an $80T GDP and $200K GDP per capita?
 
The US governments own economic projections has the US growing to $80T GDP in 30 years, with salary disbursement over $34T to the US working population

Do you understand the amount of hard power the US will accumulate with an $80T GDP and $200K GDP per capita?
The number is only good on paper, when everything becomes insanely expensive in US, you good on paper money can not do much, check out how fast China is either closing in or surpassing US in every sector year on year.
 
The US governments own economic projections has the US growing to $80T GDP in 30 years, with salary disbursement over $34T to the US working population

Do you understand the amount of hard power the US will accumulate with an $80T GDP and $200K GDP per capita?
There isn't a laugh emoji loud enough. This $80 trillion of copium.
 
ORLANDO, Florida, Jan 18 (Reuters) - The latest readouts on economic and population trends in China are remarkable, highlighting the immense long-term challenges ahead and dragging the growth profile of the world's second-largest economy back to the insular days of the 1970s.
Excluding the pandemic shock of 2020, nominal Chinese GDP growth slowed last year to its lowest since Mao Zedong led the country in the mid-1970s, according to some estimates.

Official figures also showed China's population fell for a second consecutive year, and more than twice as fast as the decline in 2022, which was the first since 1961 during the Great Famine.
While there is a case to make that the gloom among global investors towards China is excessive, one of the lowest nominal GDP growth rates and the fastest population decline in decades are powerful counterpoints.

Analysts at Deutsche Bank estimate that nominal GDP growth last year was just 4.2%. Putting 2020 aside, this would be the lowest annual nominal growth since 1976, the year Mao died.

Of course, China's economy today is unrecognizable from the mid-1970s in its makeup, size and importance to the global economy. But this is a marker.

Calculating nominal growth is an inexact science as it depends on the "deflator" used. GDP growth is usually measured in inflation-adjusted terms, so a nominal reading requires a measure of inflation to be added back on.

Or in the case of China now, a deflation rate to be subtracted.

Official population figures, meanwhile, show that the birth rate in China fell to a record low last year, and the population declined by 2.08 million, or 0.15%, to 1.409 billion.

There's no immediate or clear connection between last year's nominal growth rate and the more glacial population shift. But many investors - overseas and domestic - will see them both as reasons to be cautious on China Inc.

Deutsche Bank's Jim Reid wonders whether a "new normal" nominal GDP landscape for China is being established.

He notes that nominal GDP grew at an annual average of 15.5% in the 1980s, increasing to 18.5% in the 1990s, easing to 14.5% in the 2000s, and slowing further to 11.0% in the 2010s. The current decade is on course to average 6.2% by the end of this year.

"A big change for China and for the world," Reid wrote on Wednesday.

STOCKS SINK​

Other estimates of nominal GDP growth are slightly higher, but paint a similar picture. Economists at Societe Generale, for example, estimate it slowed to 4.6% last year.

The political optics are intriguing too. Full-year figures for the U.S. and Japan have yet to be published, but it is likely that China's nominal growth last year was lower than both of its key economic adversaries.

Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) estimates suggest China's nominal GDP growth last year was lower than Japan's for the first time in at least 30 years at 5.2% versus 5.3%.

Nominal growth rates are cited less because they do not take into account inflation or deflation. But they still matter - governments, businesses, economists and investors use them to set and measure budgets, tax revenues, wage agreements, debt ratios, earnings and other key financial metrics.

From a growth perspective, meanwhile, a shrinking population is a major headache for policymakers. It means there are fewer people producing goods and services, fewer people demanding those goods and services, and fewer people contributing the tax revenues Beijing needs to support an ageing population.

In that light, it's little wonder investors are cooling on China, pulling their money out, and questioning whether to return.

Chinese stocks have sunk to a five-year low, and have lagged their global peers for years. Take the last three years - the S&P 500 and Japan's Nikkei are both up about 25%, the MSCI World is up nearly 10%, and China's CSI 300 is down 40%.

It's also little wonder that Chinese Premier Li Qiang has been on a global charm offensive recently, including a lunch in Davos with U.S. financial titans Jamie Dimon, Steve Schwarzman and others to convince the world that China is open for business.
Even before the politics are considered, it may not have been an easy sell.

A Reuters poll of economists points to real GDP growth of 4.6% this year and CPI inflation of 1.0%. But if deflationary pressures persist - producer prices have been falling year-on-year since October 2022 - nominal GDP growth could yet shrink further.

Barclays economists are below consensus with a 4.4% call, yet wrote this week: "Risks to our below-consensus forecast also remain tilted to the downside."
 
Xi is really putting China's economy back on track with the Mao era.
 
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@Nuffle, @F-22Raptor China's growth rate is still higher than both your IQs put together.

lmao at the Westoid press thinking it can FUD and Eeyore the Chinese economy to death, and even bigger lmao at anyone who believes them.
 
Chinese stocks just capped another dismal week, with a gaugeof mainland firms listed in Hong Kong languishing at the bottom of global equity index rankings for the year so far.

Grim milestones have kept piling up in recent days: Tokyo has overtaken Shanghai as Asia’s biggest equity market, while India’s valuation premium over China has hit a record. Locally, a meltdown in Chinese shares is wreaking havoc on the nation’s asset management industry, pushing mutual fund closures to a five-year high.

The Hang Seng China Enterprises Index has already lost 11% in 2024. Coming after a record four-year losing streak, the slump is reinforcing a structural shift that’s seeing everyone from active money managers to passive funds turn their back on the world’s second-largest stock market.

The Nasdaq Golden Dragon China Index slipped as much as 2.2% at the start of US trading Friday, extending losses to a fifth consecutive day.

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In all, some $6.3 trillion has been wiped out from the market value of Chinese and Hong Kong stocks since a peak reached in 2021, underscoring the challenge that Beijing faces as it seeks to arrest a decline in investor confidence. Authorities have ruled out the use of massive stimulus to revive the flagging economy, leaving traders wondering when things will improve.

“What we are seeing this year so far really is a continuation of what we saw last year,” John Lin, AllianceBernstein’s chief investment officer of China equities, said in an Jan. 17 interview on Bloomberg Television. “These squeezing-the-toothpaste type of stimulus policies so far haven’t been able to turn around the underlying bottom-up fundamentals of areas like the property sector.”

‘Waiting Game’​

The HSCEI gauge plunged more than 6% this week and is on track to record its worst January performance in eight years. On the mainland, the CSI 300 Index has dropped in nine of the last 10 weeks. Signs that state funds likely bought exchange-traded funds and a decision by China’s largest brokerage to suspend short selling for some clients failed to halt the onshore benchmark’s losing run.

The headwinds buffeting the market are well documented: China’s real estate sector remains a trouble spot, deflationary pressures are building and a long-running feud between Beijing and Washington refuses to go away, with the US election set to take place later this year. In recent days, uncertainties about the trajectory of US interest rates and the threat of an imminent blowout of local stock derivatives have added to investor worries.

Asian fund managers have cut their allocation to China by 12 percentage points to a net 20% underweight, the lowest in more than a year, according to the latest Bank of America survey.

Managers of benchmark-tracking funds have sold a net $300 million of shares traded in mainland China and Hong Kong this month, according to a Morgan Stanley analysis. That’s a reversal from the last half of 2023, when they bought $700 million on a net basis even as stock indexes declined.

“China is a waiting game and we continue to be waiting,” said Mark Matthews, head of Asia research at Bank Julius Baer & Co., which is mostly avoiding Chinese equities.

Foreigners Continue to Exit China Equities​

Overseas investors have extended their record quarterly selling streak in 2024

2Q 2023-2.7 billion yuan
3Q-80.1
4Q-59.5
2024 so far-31.4


Source: Bloomberg
Note: Data shows quarterly net outflows in billion yuan

Beijing’s efforts to reassure investors have been met with skepticism from investors, many of whom worry that authorities are behind the curve. While the People’s Bank of China took steps last month to pump cash into the financial system, it bucked widespread expectations for cutting a key policy rate on Monday.

Speaking to leaders at the World Economic Forum this week, Chinese Premier Li Qiang trumpeted his nation’s ability to hit its roughly 5% growth target for 2023 without flooding the economy with “massive stimulus.”

Right now, the loss of confidence is so severe that even attractive valuations are of little help. The MSCI China Index has never been this cheap versus the S&P 500 gauge from a forward earnings estimate perspective. Still, bets on a short-term rebound have failed to materialize.

“The government seems very sanguine about the economy,” said Xin-Yao Ng, an investment director for Asian equities at abrdn. “The market might not even trust the 5% growth figure, it certainly has a much more negative view on the economy and definitely believes Beijing needs a big fiscal response.”
 
@Nuffle, @F-22Raptor China's growth rate is still higher than both your IQs put together.

lmao at the Westoid press thinking it can FUD and Eeyore the Chinese economy to death, and even bigger lmao at anyone who believes them.
However, it is falling year after year. If for you this does not represent news that should be treated with more caution, I cannot argue anything else to make you change that idea.

China faces several problems today:
Decreasing growth;
Demography;
Rising public debt;
Real estate sector plummeting;
Banking sector in crisis;

All of them are not enough to cause China's collapse, but it is enough to make China walk down more abnormal streets when compared to the recent past of stability and high growth.

And don't compare me to the troll @F-22Raptor
 

In other words, we are this close to a Chinese market crash... and with it the collapse of yet another wealth source for the 'average jao'... and the potential threat that the CCP fears most - revolution.
 

In other words, we are this close to a Chinese market crash... and with it the collapse of yet another wealth source for the 'average jao'... and the potential threat that the CCP fears most - revolution.
CCP actually thrives on wealth collapse if you knew a little bit of its history. It is the capitalism that would be blamed on.
 
CCP actually thrives on wealth collapse if you knew a little bit of its history. It is the capitalism that would be blamed on.

Excellent strategy. CCP is for capitalism when it is working for then until it doesn't. Makes perfect sense in a way.
 
Excellent strategy. CCP is for capitalism when it is working for then until it doesn't. Makes perfect sense in a way.
That is how this world works, communism or not. Those in power play with other people's lives. When things don't go as planned, they blame on those who do the actual works.
 

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