Chinese SAC - FC-31/J-35 5th Gen Stealth Aircraft
- Thread starter SiliconBit (silicon0000)
- Start date
Yasser76
SpeedLimited
Yeah man, you would think they could throw a few jets PAF's way heh!?
niubi
Registered Member
PAF at most has to contend with IAF and bring enough capability to make wide scale Indian aggression too expensive to consider.
PLAAF is aiming to equal US + regional allies.
India is not 1% the strength of US + regional allies. PLAAF's Western Theatre Command on its own can defeat IAF with exchange rates that will rival Desert Storm exchange rates. IAF currently has a joke of a AWACS and networking capability with zero full domestic ecosystem. It's MKI is J-11B level and more poorly networked to the rest of the fleet compared to the J-11B with PLAAF. Mig-29s and Mirage 2000s are J-10A level. Rafale is J-10C/J-16 level. Weapons wise, PLAAF outrange them and are vastly more modern save for their French air to ground ordinance which equal PLAAF but PLAAF buy domestic and China manufactures thousands upon thousands in short span of time where India would exhaust entire stockpile within a week. Then J-20, UADFs and CCAs, GJ-11, J-35 on top, it's not a contest. These are all force multipliers. Better weapons, more weapons by miles, more modern weapons and tech, self manufacture as many as they please.
India vastly overestimates the capability of IAF and underestimate the capability of PLAAF.
To "throw a few jets PAF way" means slowing down the build up to equal US + regional allies overall numbers. Tech modernity and capability already equal or exceed at the top end but top end numbers are far smaller for now. India on the other hand has zero top end and barely has 32-34 mid tier in the form of Rafales and very few modern weapons (Meteor, Storm Shadow etc). PAF doesn't need much to effectively counter India. Getting more and better stuff than India will trigger anger and destabilising actions from India. No point. They basically just bs themselves and once in a while do something small and get smacked. That's what India is for the foreseeable future.
China is playing an entirely different game, at least two leagues ahead just on hardware without considering the baseline industry and manufacturing.
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Yasser76
SpeedLimited
Pakistan's requirememts now go beyond India I would argue. For sure Pakistan has to think about the threats it faces too, I guess it just depends how quickly China can churn out these J-35s to keep PLAAF happy so Pakistan can then get some.
As every passing year goes by and with no new inductions, IAF becomes more and more obsolete and less and less of a threat, but this alone should not be a reason for PAF to stop mondernisation, as we are already still flying many old planes
niubi
Registered Member
I really hope Pakistan can develop economically first and provide its people with an improved environment. It would transform into a very useful global ally for China too. It is a country with fairly strategically decent geographic position and population that of the US. Imagine even if each individual is 10% to 15% the productivity of a US median individual.
Pakistan and China I think are capable of making India hesitate with aggression. That is hopefully enough. If Pakistan were weaker, this retarded India government would be attacking non-stop. If this is the worst India to be facing, the current over-militarisation of Pakistan (relative to countries in Europe and countries like China which spend no more than 2.5 to 3% of GDP) is enough. If India cools down, Pakistan can afford to scale back and would have China's MIC backing to tap into if things get heated anyway.
Personally I am much more in favour of Pakistan scaling back militarily and developing more. At the moment, balance appears to run the other direction. Imagine in 100 years time how well a 300M population, educated, trained, industrialised Pakistan can be like and more so (selfishly here) as an ally for China. The US have such strong and capable allies whereas China has none.
In time, hopefully even India too becomes neutral or even a ally. Things change a lot with decades these days. Both India and Pakistan over-militarising in pursuit of basically border harm is in the long term, big picture, pretty harmful for China's interest. And I'm putting China in here because a lot of the military arms to Pakistan for the short to medium term obviously will be Chinese. Many seem to think China has no issue arming Pakistan to the teeth but strategically this is foolish for more reasons than I have writtten in an already long passage.
If you're referring to Israel, I think we need to see how things go with the current conflict. Again, over emphasising military at this stage for Pakistan is simply waste.
There's no doubt that PAF will eventually be receiving J-35 whether PAF itself wants to wait a bit and see how things are with India and for J-35 to mature a little more or whether China is holding sales for now as restraint or whatever reason (extremely destabilising).
Yes IAF and India has not been doing that well. It is still developing decently but this is an extremely poorly managed country. PAF modernisation would lap India if there are no restraints but nothing exists in a vacuum. Push here, something else gives and China and Pakistan decision makers surely understand all this well enough. Military deterrence is what China and Pakistan aims for even if some Pakistani leaders prefer over-leveraging too early.
PAF can replace old F-7s with JF-17 new blocks. India's Mig-21s are quite troublesome for them. There's no sense in hosting a certain number of squadrons and whatnot. In time, a lot of Chinese CCAs and UADFs are going to become open for PAF too. The long term goal is to modernise with consideration for Indian net capabilities but travel in the direction where PAF gets J-35 and UADFs/CCAs which China although currently has completed, are still in evaluation and tactic forming stage. It'll be many years to a decade before these are exportable but they certainly will be one day. Meanwhile IAF has a pretty poor pipeline.
Pakistan and China I think are capable of making India hesitate with aggression. That is hopefully enough. If Pakistan were weaker, this retarded India government would be attacking non-stop. If this is the worst India to be facing, the current over-militarisation of Pakistan (relative to countries in Europe and countries like China which spend no more than 2.5 to 3% of GDP) is enough. If India cools down, Pakistan can afford to scale back and would have China's MIC backing to tap into if things get heated anyway.
Personally I am much more in favour of Pakistan scaling back militarily and developing more. At the moment, balance appears to run the other direction. Imagine in 100 years time how well a 300M population, educated, trained, industrialised Pakistan can be like and more so (selfishly here) as an ally for China. The US have such strong and capable allies whereas China has none.
In time, hopefully even India too becomes neutral or even a ally. Things change a lot with decades these days. Both India and Pakistan over-militarising in pursuit of basically border harm is in the long term, big picture, pretty harmful for China's interest. And I'm putting China in here because a lot of the military arms to Pakistan for the short to medium term obviously will be Chinese. Many seem to think China has no issue arming Pakistan to the teeth but strategically this is foolish for more reasons than I have writtten in an already long passage.
If you're referring to Israel, I think we need to see how things go with the current conflict. Again, over emphasising military at this stage for Pakistan is simply waste.
There's no doubt that PAF will eventually be receiving J-35 whether PAF itself wants to wait a bit and see how things are with India and for J-35 to mature a little more or whether China is holding sales for now as restraint or whatever reason (extremely destabilising).
Yes IAF and India has not been doing that well. It is still developing decently but this is an extremely poorly managed country. PAF modernisation would lap India if there are no restraints but nothing exists in a vacuum. Push here, something else gives and China and Pakistan decision makers surely understand all this well enough. Military deterrence is what China and Pakistan aims for even if some Pakistani leaders prefer over-leveraging too early.
PAF can replace old F-7s with JF-17 new blocks. India's Mig-21s are quite troublesome for them. There's no sense in hosting a certain number of squadrons and whatnot. In time, a lot of Chinese CCAs and UADFs are going to become open for PAF too. The long term goal is to modernise with consideration for Indian net capabilities but travel in the direction where PAF gets J-35 and UADFs/CCAs which China although currently has completed, are still in evaluation and tactic forming stage. It'll be many years to a decade before these are exportable but they certainly will be one day. Meanwhile IAF has a pretty poor pipeline.
Yasser76
SpeedLimited
Great post. Some wise words.
FYI IAF phased out MIG-21, but they still operate 6 Sqds of Jaguars which are almost as old
Trailer23
Trusted Member
Yeah, and they got retired airframes from the UK last week and (if I'm not mistaken), Nigeria prior to that. So looks like the great IAF won't be letting go of that relic anytime in the near future.
Ali_Baba
VIP Member
And the Indians think they can take on both this and the PAF at the same time! There are almost more J20's than the entire fast jet fleet of the IAF !!!
Yasser76
SpeedLimited
India v China is over, in all honesty was over pretty much 10 years ago.
US are on record as stating they will struggle conventionally against China. India has zero chance. India's best bet is that the very latest tech takes its time to diffuse from China to Pakistan
niubi
Registered Member
And the pace at which military tech and equipment is sold/offered to Pakistan depends on Indian decisions and actions.
Yasser76
SpeedLimited
Yes, apart from regular chest thumping militarily they have gone very quiet....
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