Clashes with Afghan Taliban break out again: Taliban removing fence and covering for TTP infiltration

[Joe Shearer]

Indian leadership and academia recently openly stated at least 5 times off the top of my head that they are planning to invade Pakistan, change the demography of Kashmir, or destabilize Balochistan.

My fault for forgetting that there are people in this discussion who don't read and don't pay attention.

I mentioned 2014.
I also mentioned that 1971 was Sui Generis.
Silly me.

 

[Joe Shearer]

And since 1947 they have always been barking about how Pakistan will be forced to become part of India

Nobody has suggested that Pakistan will be forced to become part of India except the political movement that came to power in 2014, 67 years after 1947.

 

[moonaman.varavayi]

Sickular Congress comitted state sponsored pogroms against Sikhs. Same sickular congress also sent Indian Army and IAF to protect Hari Singh from backlash after he butchered 200,000 Kashmiri Muslims.

Do you have any idea about the topic of the thread, or the post to which you are replying? You need to attend a few reading comprehension classes.

 

[arjunk]

Do you have any idea about the topic of the thread, or the post to which you are replying? You need to attend a few reading comprehension classes.

Don't be dense and follow the quote chain instead of making a fool of yourself.

 

[arjunk]

Nobody has suggested that Pakistan will be forced to become part of India except the political movement that came to power in 2014, 67 years after 1947.

Post partition, many mainstream Indian politicians issued statements claiming Pakistan would fall apart one way or another and be forced to re join India. After 1971 Indian academia and politicians rambled on about how the two nation theory had been finished (right up there with other absurd mainstream Indian convictions like OIT).

Anyway, to the topic.

 

[FuturePAF]

ISAF had aerial QRF when its checkposts were attacked. FC has no such back up.

How effective was the ISAF QRF force? In dislodging the attackers, neutralizing the attacks, dissuading further attacks on the merit of just their actions (not other politics)?

I have always said the FC needs their own dedicated air support (as well as large fleet of MRAPs). The western front is generational effort to subdue Afghan irredentist claims. The experience learned by officers and men on the western front can offset the cost of this equipment and its maintenance/fuel, to keep the men sharp for any potential war with India.

Considering all the roads that were build under CPEC, the QRF need not only be airborne but also ground based. This is why we should get an economical version (steel instead of whatever these are made out of, and with a slightly more powerful engine to compensate for the higher weight therefore, from the 210 hp on the foxhound to a 300 hp engine like the one used on the Toyota HiLux TRD; a Hilux engine will allow ease of maintenance with the rest of the FC fleet) of an MRAP like the British Foxhound; purpose built for operating in the narrow streets of villages like those in our western regions and to be able to move into mountain passes nimbly.

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Considering what we already make in Pakistan; the 220 hp Hilux, making an 300 hp MRAP with a hilux engine seems the most logical step, and an economical way to make a QRF ground force.

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[hussain0216]

Regarding the secularism - Islamic debate

The issue with Pakistan exists at a societal level, otherwise at a state level it operates more as a hybrid regime where religion is taken into account but not the final decision

Pakistani society however is highly brainwashed around the ummah concept despite the fact it doesn't really exist at all - simply because your "ummah" doesn't even believe in it, they care for their own people like any sane person.

It's a highly extremist and uneducated society

The ummah concept comes from God, who should we follow?

I am not saying we don't need a healthy dose of nationalism rather then random ethnocentrism, but ummah is part and parcel of our faith

 

[khan_patriot]

How effective was the ISAF QRF force? In dislodging the attackers, neutralizing the attacks, dissuading further attacks on the merit of just their actions (not other politics)?

Although my observation is anecdotal but nothing nothing dissuades attacking terrorists like CAS. During Pakistan's peak WoT days local and terrorist alike called Cobra gunships "machai", or wasps because of their speed, firepower and lethality. As far as ISAF is concerned there are loads of first person POV videos where TTA fighters break contact as soon as CAS (particularly A 10s) enter the battle space.
Realistically, Pakistan is not ISAF so employing artillary or armed drones has the potential to be more cost effective while being just a lethal.

 

[SecularNationalist]

Do you think the vast majority of your countrymen share this view? Do most people want a secular republic, or an Islamic one?

Well very few share my view.
Mostly follow the other route.
Just like in India these days mostly you find hinduvadis.
That's the problem of subcontinent.

 

[FuturePAF]

Although my observation is anecdotal but nothing nothing dissuades attacking terrorists like CAS. During Pakistan's peak WoT days local and terrorist alike called Cobra gunships "machai", or wasps because of their speed, firepower and lethality. As far as ISAF is concerned there are loads of first person POV videos where TTA fighters break contact as soon as CAS (particularly A 10s) enter the battle space.
Realistically, Pakistan is not ISAF so employing artillary or armed drones has the potential to be more cost effective while being just a lethal.

I think even old F-7PG with a targeting pod and laser guided rockets and some laser guided bombs would be enough to come in fast and circle over the battle space, as a QRF, until modest attack helicopters like the cobras can come in loiter over the battle space in a visible sort of way, allowing MRAPs full of troops can make their way to the fight. If need be, small teams of heliborne troops / JTACs -Forward air controllers can come in (on medium weight transport helicopters like Hueys or Mi-17) with the Cobras and guide in the aerial assets with laser or coordinates and mitigate the risk to civilians while ensuring hostile get neutralized.

MRAPs are important to hold the ground, and should not be overlooked, and for that you need domination of the road network.

 

[شَاھِین شَاہِ لَولَاک]

Thank you for that relief.

Listening to gullible citizens who think that the Indian leadership stays up at night thinking of diabolical plans to undermine her neighbours has become an ordeal.

Thank you for at least one knowledgeable retort.

that was until modi took over and started spewing shit against pakistan.

 

[Abid123]

Trust me on this, the people of Pakistan would rather have the Taliban as their government than your corrupt and drunk military leadership. Any mistake from your establishment will lead to the people of Pakistan claiming your military's heads. Nearly everyone in Pakistan is dead tired of the corrupt and drunk establishment. Even the people of Kashmir is rising.

Your army is just there to oppress your people. They will not venture into a conflict with Afghanistan which would risk the power and financial interests.

If anything, your corrupt establishment is using the border conflicts (and at times escalating them) to take away the peoples attention from the domestic issues.

Lastly, all these lying twitter accounts are pulling casualty numbers out of their a**.

100% correct.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

It's not about what AT thinks. Just that every policy has its drawbacks. Pak establishment is focused on connectivity to central asia so the last thing they want is for Afg to be destabilized. In fact, no great power wants Afg destabilized right now. Neither the Chinese, Russians or even the Americans.

Ironically, establishment is working on a flawed understanding of geoeconomics. They think it's just trade routes lol. To be fair, the energy pipelines are a big concern.



A lot of ppl have their theories about AT & TTP relationship. Yours is one of them but C11 is a professional think tank that includes retired army officers & professional researchers so I tend to give more weight to their view.

IMO, what you said is how many in the middle & lower tiers of AT view TTP. But at the top, the TTP is viewed differently mainly b/c the leaders want to run a regular nation-state & the TTP is getting in the way of that. Reality is that many AT members will join ISKP with TTP if they think AT has "betrayed" them. Establishment doesn't want Afg destabilized (see above why) so it's stuck b/w a rock and a hard place.

I think we are saying roughly the same thing. BTW can you link C11 please?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

It's not about what AT thinks. Just that every policy has its drawbacks. Pak establishment is focused on connectivity to central asia so the last thing they want is for Afg to be destabilized. In fact, no great power wants Afg destabilized right now. Neither the Chinese, Russians or even the Americans.

Ironically, establishment is working on a flawed understanding of geoeconomics. They think it's just trade routes lol. To be fair, the energy pipelines are a big concern.



A lot of ppl have their theories about AT & TTP relationship. Yours is one of them but C11 is a professional think tank that includes retired army officers & professional researchers so I tend to give more weight to their view.

IMO, what you said is how many in the middle & lower tiers of AT view TTP. But at the top, the TTP is viewed differently mainly b/c the leaders want to run a regular nation-state & the TTP is getting in the way of that. Reality is that many AT members will join ISKP with TTP if they think AT has "betrayed" them. Establishment doesn't want Afg destabilized (see above why) so it's stuck b/w a rock and a hard place.

afghans are doing a brilliant job of destabilising afghanistan themselves. Which is why there is 12 million of them in Pakistan.

 

[R2D2]

Just b/c it was only a segment of the Muslim leadership that drove the movement does not diminish it's religious basis. Their fears were based on religious grounds & it was also supported by a segment of the religious leadership. Yes, at first the movement focused on parity within a single sovereign state no a separate one but even then they wanted parity with Hindus based on religious grounds & they wanted more of a loose confederation than a centralized union.

Even if they were the minority from the coreligionists, so what? Their basis for separation was religion. You can deny it all you want & bring in landlords & whatnot but religion was the driving force behind the country's founders & the rallying cause of their movement.

Besides, how can anyone looking at the situation today say that they were wrong & Maulana Azad was right? Wise & farsighted unlike the naive & foolhardy Indian Muslim leadership is more like it. We have our problems today but at least they don't include being lynched to death b/c you're a Muslim & quite frankly your guys' problems aren't that much different either so it's not like we would be better off with you.

In any case, Jinnah is on record saying multiple times that he wants a state based on ISLAMIC law. Granted, he and some other founders were more modernist in their view but in the end, in their view ISLAM was to be the basis of the state.

British wanted to create a small state from where they could manage the region just like the Americans wanted with Karachi and now Balochistan.