CPEC News and Discussions

[RealNapster]

These hydro projects are also IPPs.

Why build hydro dam with unit price of Rs30-40? You displace people and at the end get more expensive electricity then Thar coal. No longer make sense. KP can build them with their own resources and buy electricity from them.

If your government is building hydel IPPs in the same rate (per kWh cost) as Coal/oil based IPPs. Then what can I say ?

The concept of IPPs in itself is brought to Pakistan by those who are in power today as well. And still 89% of IPPs are owned by those already in power or linked to them.

Government could have easily said to investors that look, if you want guaranteed price then let's keep it 10 rupees/kWh and we will pay you even if we don't buy from you. But instead your PMLN and PPP led governments said, not only will we give you Rs 30-40 even 57 rupees per kWh but we will pay the same price even if we don't buy from you.

Ab isme runoff and storage dams ki kia ghalti hy ?

 

[RealNapster]

KP can build them with their own resources and buy electricity from them.

KP is already building a 330 MW dam from its own finances. Tm logo Kay barosy bety rahy to ho gya sab phir.

 

[Respect4Respect]

KP is already building a 330 MW dam from its own finances. Tm logo Kay barosy bety rahy to ho gya sab phir.

in ka chachoo nawaz sharif is baar bhi IPP's jaisa koi tohfa de kar jaega, agly 30 saal phir rote rahengy sarey Pakistani.

 

[drkrn86]

Solar electricity has made these large hydro-power projects to costly.

No points building dams for power generation now. Flood control, water storage, agriculture, etc.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

KP is already building a 330 MW dam from its own finances. Tm logo Kay barosy bety rahy to ho gya sab phir.

The Balakot one? That is again CPEC IPP. May get cancelled as well if work have not started.

 

[RealNapster]

The Balakot one? That is again CPEC IPP. May get cancelled as well if work have not started.

Bhai this is a project that KP signed with Chinese contractor firms and it's funded by ADB. It may come under the umbrella of CPEC facilitated portfolio, but it's not funded under CPEC.

Bottom line for your understanding, KP will be the one returning this loan back. Not Federal government.

KP signs pact for 300MW Balakot hydropower project

The project will be constructed at an estimated cost of Rs85 billion in a period of six years.

www.dawn.com

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Bhai this is a project that KP signed with Chinese contractor firms and it's funded by ADB. It may come under the umbrella of CPEC facilitated portfolio, but it's not funded under CPEC.

Bottom line for your understanding, KP will be the one returning this loan back. Not Federal government.

KP signs pact for 300MW Balakot hydropower project

The project will be constructed at an estimated cost of Rs85 billion in a period of six years.

www.dawn.com

But federal government will buy electricity from it if completed. I see another cancellation on the cards. Unless KP want to buy electricity and distribute themselves.

Rs30 unit from IPP hydro projects make zero financial sense.

Its quite likely even bhasha dam will only be used as water storage and no power will be generated from it. And that is federal project. Imagine if wapda own dam no longer make financial sense then how can IPP hydro projects.

 

[RealNapster]

But federal government will buy electricity from it if completed. I see another cancellation on the cards. Unless KP want to buy electricity and distribute themselves.

Rs30 unit from IPP hydro projects make zero financial sense.

Its quite likely even bhasha dam will only be used as water storage and no power will be generated from it. And that is federal project. Imagine if wapda own dam no longer make financial sense then how can IPP hydro projects.

If KP is the client, and it will pay back the loan. How will federal government be responsible for payments to this company ?

And even if it have to, this is the fruit of centralizing things. No dam can directly give electricity to KP as it first have to reach national grid and then redirected to KP in limited form and heavy price. So be it. Tm logo ne raka hy ye system.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Solar electricity has made these large hydro-power projects to costly.

No points building dams for power generation now. Flood control, water storage, agriculture, etc.

Cheap solar panels have ended obsession with dams. Now govt need to work on local manufacturing of solar panels.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

If KP is the client, and it will pay back the loan. How will federal government be responsible for payments to this company ?

And even if it have to, this is the fruit of centralizing things. No dam can directly give electricity to KP as it first have to reach national grid and then redirected to KP in limited form and heavy price. So be it. Tm logo ne raka hy ye system.

foreign loans will be approved by federal government with guarantee of buying electricity for 20 years at USD pegged rate. Aka IPP

Can KP afford to buy and distribute themselves? If not then expect all these hydro IPP projects getting cancelled.

 

[RealNapster]

Can KP afford to buy and distribute themselves? If not then expect all these hydro IPP projects getting cancelled

Good. KP can always go for BOT with investors. Keep your CPEC to yourself. Chishma right canal to ban ni saka tm logo se 30 Saal me..

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@RealNapster @hydrabadi_arab

Conventional thermal/hydro are passe unless you have a lot of cheap domestic coal. Future is nuclear, solar and wind: with batteries and pumped hydro for storage

Regards

 

[RealNapster]

@RealNapster @hydrabadi_arab

Conventional thermal/hydro are passe unless you have a lot of cheap domestic coal. Future is nuclear, solar and wind: with batteries and pumped hydro for storage

Regards

We have billions of tons of coal, and then we have the most sunshine as well for solar. Wind, just a corridor in Sindh able to produce some 50,000 MW.

But who will ? India is another case, Indian investors are willing to invest in local solar and coal plants. Pakistani investors will instead go the IPP mode and ask incentives which are unheard of. Well not in case of Pakistan because we have seen it all. 17-18% guaranteed annual returns on IPPs, paying full price even if we don't purchase and a unit cost of some 15-20 cents .

While solar with per unit price of Pkr 5 will still financially suit Pakistani investors. But who here is going to think of the country ?

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@RealNapster

Good points. The thing is twofold:

One, Pak doesn't have good rule of law and respect for contracts (not very different from IND). Its discoms are in a very bad shape. India's are a bit better now but more importantly there are strong Central govt owned intermediaries like NTPC and SECI which will ensure timely payment.
Second, Pakistan doesn't have a high capital formation so not enough domestic capital is available for infra projects.

Address both- domestic capital will start investing in power- ideally all contracts through reverse bidding

Regards

 

[RealNapster]

@RealNapster

Good points. The thing is twofold:

One, Pak doesn't have good rule of law and respect for contracts (not very different from IND). Its discoms are in a very bad shape. India's are a bit better now but more importantly there are strong Central govt owned intermediaries like NTPC and SECI which will ensure timely payment.
Second, Pakistan doesn't have a high capital formation so not enough domestic capital is available for infra projects.

Address both- domestic capital will start investing in power- ideally all contracts through reverse bidding

Regards

Bro 80% of the blood sucking IPPs are owned by local investors, majority of them are politicians or relatives of politicians. But they will not go wind or hydel or solar. Instead they focused on furnace oil based IPPs. Because there you can make more money by producing the most costly electricity from them.