Do Pakistani Law Colleges teach Hindu Personal Law as a part of your Law academic course?

[Baibers_1260]

Article 14 means that while the government cannot grant special privileges ("Equality before the law"), it can treat different groups differently ("Equal protection of the laws") if the classification is both rational and relevant to the law's goal

Thanks for the clarification on Article 14.
So "different groups " can be treated differently "if the classification is both rational and relevant to the law's goal"

So who decides what is " rational and relevant to the law's goal" ?

 

[Sam6536]

So if another group ( like Muslims for example) cannot provide a "rational nexus" for "equality before the law" it cannot claim any protection or equality under the Indian secular democratic constitution. The onus for claiming equal rights as a citizen lies on the individual or group and the equal rights are not applicable automatically.

Thanks for the clarification.

Every Muslim citizen automatically possesses the right to Equality before the Law, meaning the State cannot grant them unequal legal rights just because of their faith. However, when the UCC is enacted, the State's duty shifts to proving the ban on polygamy is a rational way to achieve the constitutional goal of gender equality (Article 15). The Supreme Court has ruled that practices like polygamy are not essential to Islam and thus can be superseded by secular law. Therefore, it's not that Muslims can't claim protection; it's that the State's duty to enforce gender equality (a fundamental right) is deemed a valid, rational, and superior legal objective to the religious custom, ensuring the UCC's application is seen as constitutional, not discriminatory.

STs are treated as a different class of individuals who have special protection.

 

[Sam6536]

Thanks for the clarification on Article 14.
So "different groups " can be treated differently "if the classification is both rational and relevant to the law's goal"

So who decides what is " rational and relevant to the law's goal" ?

The ultimate decision on what constitutes "rational and relevant to the law's goal" under the Article 14 test for the UCC's exemptions here rests with the Judiciary, specifically the Supreme Court of India. While the Parliament (the Legislature) makes the initial classification (like exempting Scheduled Tribes), any citizen can challenge that classification in court. The Court then performs Judicial Review, requiring the State to prove the exemption meets the two part test: that the classification has an Intelligible Differentia (a real, verifiable difference, such as the STs' unique constitutional status) and a Rational Nexus (a logical link to the State's superior objective of cultural preservation, which outweighs the goal of uniformity). If the classification fails this test and is deemed arbitrary, the Court strikes it down for violating the fundamental right to equality.

 

[Vapnope]

There are exceptions.
Justice Rana Bhagwan Das was well versed in Islamic Jurisprudence. I am not sure about Justice Dorabji Patel .
Fun fact:
Interestingly there has been no Christian judge in India's Supreme Court so far.

Sir never forget Honorable Justice Cornelius in Pakistan. His work and contributions for Pakistan are just extraordinary.

 

[Baibers_1260]

The Supreme Court has ruled that practices like polygamy are not essential to Islam and thus can be superseded by secular law.

Is polygamy essential to the maintenance of custom amongst the Meena community of Rajasthan? Is the maintenance of polyandry the. practice of Jodidara, among the Hatti community in Kinnaur in Uttar Pradesh ?
So it is assumed that these practices have been deemed essential to the practice of Hinduism in these communities, and thus gender equality cannot be implemented, since the 5th Schedule of the Constitution identifying STs renders them immune from the provisions of the Constitution Art 14

Therefore, it's not that Muslims can't claim protection; it's that the State's duty to enforce gender equality (a fundamental right) is deemed a valid, rational, and superior legal objective to the religious custom, ensuring the UCC's application is seen as constitutional, not discriminatory.

STs are treated as a different class of individuals who have special protection.

ST are treated as a different class of individuals who have special protection, which doesn't imply gender protection of ST females who are a part of the polygamy and polyandry traditions. So Art 14 is void in the case of the ST females.

Thanks for the clarification.

Bangladesh lawyers are considering moving a petition in their Supreme Court there calling for a ban on idol worship because idols are not essential for the worship of the Santana Dharma as per the Vedas.
What's your legal opinion on the above?

 

[Baibers_1260]

@Sam6536

How would the Universal Civil Code be relevant after the upcoming National Caste Census or are they not connected L

 

[Sam6536]

Is polygamy essential to the maintenance of Polygamy amongst the Meena community of Rajasthan and the maintenance of polyandry the. practice of Jodidara, among the Hatti community in Kinnaur in Uttar Pradesh ?
So these practices have been deemed essential to the practice of Hinduism and thus gender equality cannot be implemented since the 5th Schedule of the Constitution identifying STs renders them immune from the provisions of the Constitution Art 14

STs aren't governed by HMA. Their rights are protected as customary rights under the constitution.

We aren't using the Essential Religious Practice test unlike Sarla Mudgal case where ERP was used.

ST are treated as a different class of individuals who have special protection, which doesn't imply gender protection of ST females who are a part of the polygamy and polyandry traditions. So Art 14 is void in the case of the ST females.

The current legal position is that the special constitutional provisions protecting ST customary law currently overshadow and limit the immediate applicability of Article 14 in matters of personal law (like marriage and inheritance) for ST women.

The judiciary has repeatedly highlighted the constitutional tension. In several cases (including those concerning inheritance rights under the Hindu Succession Act), courts and the Law Commission have called for legislative action (like extending the Hindu Succession Act or the UCC) to enforce gender equality within tribal communities, recognizing that customary laws often discriminate against tribal women, particularly concerning land and succession.

The 21st Law Commission stated that a full Uniform Civil Code (UCC) was "neither necessary nor desirable at this stage." Instead, it strongly recommended that the existing laws should be reformed piecemeal to achieve gender justice.

 

[Sam6536]

@Sam6536

How would the Universal Civil Code be relevant after the upcoming National Caste Census or are they not connected L

The Uniform Civil Code and the National Caste Census are not directly connected though they are politically linked. The Caste Census is an administrative data collection tool focused on socio economic disadvantage.

 

[Baibers_1260]

The judiciary has repeatedly highlighted the constitutional tension. In several cases (including those concerning inheritance rights under the Hindu Succession Act), courts and the Law Commission have called for legislative action (like extending the Hindu Succession Act or the UCC) to enforce gender equality within tribal communities, recognizing that customary laws often discriminate against tribal women, particularly concerning land and succession.

Which judiciary has recommended that ? The Judiciary in Jharkhand, Chattisgarh, or the Manipur High Court?

The 21st Law Commission stated that a full Uniform Civil Code (UCC) was "neither necessary nor desirable at this stage." Instead, it strongly recommended that the existing laws should be reformed piecemeal to achieve gender justice.

Which existing laws should be reformed piecemeal?
Could you list the laws reformed, or to be reformed other than the "Triple Talaq" Law and Waqf Act ?
For my education do write a list of a few laws ( not the entire list ) the judiciary wants reformed "piecemeal "

 

[Baibers_1260]

As a student of law you didn't give your opinion on whether a Supreme Court in Bangladesh or Pakistan could determine whether a custom or practice of any religion can be determined as "essential" or "non-essential".
Example: Indian Supreme Court ruled that mosques are not essential for prayers in Islam so demolitions of mosques are not prejudicial to the Muslim community.

We in Pakistan are putting in a public interest petition in the Supreme Court that idol worship is not essential to the practice of Buddhism and Hinduism so demolitions of rock carvings and decrepit temples of Hindu and Buddhist shrines are in line with public interest to save the Archaeological Survey of Pakistan the expenses of maintaining and preserving these structures.
Perfectly Constitutional !

 

[Baibers_1260]

The ultimate decision on what constitutes "rational and relevant to the law's goal" under the Article 14 test for the UCC's exemptions here rests with the Judiciary, specifically the Supreme Court of India.

So the Supreme Court can decide which citizens are entitled to the fundamental rights under Article 14.
Question: Could you list which citizens or communities are covered under " rational and relevant to the law's goal ?

While the Parliament (the Legislature) makes the initial classification (like exempting Scheduled Tribes), any citizen can challenge that classification in court.

So the Parliament can also determine which groups of people and citizens are exempt from protection under Article 14 ? A private citizen can challenge in the Parliament "in court " ?

The Court then performs Judicial Review, requiring the State to prove the exemption meets the two part test: that the classification has an Intelligible Differentia (a real, verifiable difference, such as the STs' unique constitutional status) and a Rational Nexus (a logical link to the State's superior objective of cultural preservation, which outweighs the goal of uniformity).

So this could be interpreted that the Supreme Court could confirm a State Law that overrules fundamental rights under Art 14 and Article 19 such as the right of worship and beliefs?
Practically the Indian Supreme Court could confirm a State ruling ( such as in Uttar Pradesh) that Islam is not "essential " for the right of freedom of religion of any Indian citizen so banning the practice and belief of Islam is Constitutionally correct, Do I understand the term "Rational Nexus " correctly? Because it can be debated whether Islam is rational or not,

If the classification fails this test and is deemed arbitrary, the Court strikes it down for violating the fundamental right to equality

Which classifications have been struck down by the Supreme Court as "violating the fundamental rights to equality"

On the Constitution:
Could you name any Democratic Constitution anywhere in the world where a group of people are exempt from the laws in Schedules similar to the 5th Schedule in India?

 

[Baibers_1260]

STs are treated as a different class of individuals who have special protection.

Interesting.
Apparently the protection didn't apply to The Chief Justice of India Justice Gavai who had a shoe thrown at him in court.

Shoe thrown at India's top judge in religious row

A lawyer attacks India's Chief Justice BR Gavai over remarks he made about a Hindu god.

www.bbc.com

@Master Chief @Mighty_Dragon_Strike

 

[Baibers_1260]

The current legal position is that the special constitutional provisions protecting ST customary law currently overshadow and limit the immediate applicability of Article 14 in matters of personal law (like marriage and inheritance) for ST women

On a different note are The Laws of Manu ( Chapter 9, and 10) studied by law students in India.
It is not implied that the Laws of Manu are part of the NLU curriculum but are law students studying it voluntarily to understand the 700 page proposed draft "constitution" for an "Akhand Hindu Rashtra" (Undivided Hindu Nation) that may come into force by 2035. Link on that document is as below.

Unveiling of the ‘Hindu Rashtra Constitution’ by Saints at the Maha Kumbha Mela - Sanatan Prabhat

Saints took the lead in establishing ‘Hindu Rashtra’. Now, once again, Saints have taken the initiative and it will be established under the leadership of Saints

sanatanprabhat.org

@Master Chief @Yasser76 @PK781 @Mighty_Dragon_Strike