Egypt is considering the establishment of a factory for the production and assembly F-31/35

[BP2]

View attachment 55698
The circulating information is that Egypt had obtained a currency exchange worth $2.5 billion, of which $1 billion included the purchase of 12 J-10CE aircraft. Egypt requested its own specifications. It is not known whether an agreement was actually reached or a difference occurred. Egypt’s possession of fighters such as the F-31/35 remains important because it is a strategic deal. To replace the aging F-16 fleet and also incorporate any local modifications from China itself, this deal will penetrate global markets, given that the Egyptian Air Force selects fighters well and has global respect, so the market for the Rafa fighter has become fast and high after Egypt became an export customer.

Strange to purchase so few J-10.
12 or 120 chinese birds are doing the same earthquake with USA ! Better take 48 in a single move....

About Rafale : It is not specially the fact that Egypt was the first customer that lauched the export career, it is the fact that many country were interested in, but no one wanted to be the first (because the plane was said very costly and unmature).

 

[BP2]

The price of the fighter is compatible with the Egyptian budget, as the plane is priced at 75 million dollars, which is half the price of the Rafale

LOL.
Dry production cost of the Rafale C was 55 € millions (excl VAT) in 2014 (French Senat report).
Add 2.5% inflation since and 10% of margin => actual price = 55 x 1.28 x 1.1 = 77.5 millions more or less.
Add trainings, spares, weapons.

 

[BP2]

View attachment 55699

China has surpassed these engines after the success of the WS-15 engine project, parallel to the F119-PW-100 engine.
The same applies to the WS-19 engine
Guizhou incorporated many of the same technology as on the WS-15 to develop the WS-19
The gap between China and America is very narrow in the field of manufacturing fifth-generation fighter engines. China provides good financing and resources to cover all the gaps quickly with the generation of Egypt. The level of these engines is acceptable if they are slightly less developed than American engines, because there are other benefits that stem from the absence of significant quantitative or technical restrictions, such as The United States imposed to protect Israel


India still needs many years because it insists on not relying on its engines, even if they have lower capabilities. Relying on the local product provides incentives and capabilities to develop it. This is in addition to the fact that the Indian side is accustomed to not leading technological projects. Their will is less than that of China. Besides, they do not penetrate American secrets or the networks of component suppliers to manufacturers. American weapons, which provided them with high-tech espionage operations

These are only mainly russian engine copy. At least russian technology as the specialty of China is Copy & Paste....
Few years ago the time between overhaul was very limited : 150 hours. Far far from the US engines.
So I really don't think they are able to reach for exemple the turbine temperature of the last US engines.

 

[BP2]

There are already rumors that the UAE and Saudi Arabia are interested in the plane, and that one of the two countries is interested in financing the project.

Probably used as a leverage with USA to bargain.

 

[Sami_1]

I don't see Turkey purchasing 150 EF2000. 40 maybe. And don't forget Germany : they are a real break in all weapons deal with non european country.

This is the solution proposed by the Atak. Their utmost dreams now is to buy 40 Typhoon fighters and develop old F-16 fighters. They may expensive the contract to buy 40 F-16 fighters in order to save 10 billion to buy Typhoon fighters because Greece will sell F-16 BLOCK-30 fighters and MIRAGE-2000 fighters to buy 40. Additional Rafale fighter with F-35 fighters, they want some balance with Greece in air weapons

 

[Sami_1]

J-20 In Background — China Likely Pitched J-10C, J-31 Stealth Fighters To Egyptian Air Force Commander?​

By Ashish Dangwal
July 19, 2024

In a significant stride towards bolstering bilateral military relations, the Commander of the Egyptian Air Force, Lieutenant General Mahmoud Foaad Abdel Gawad, recently met his Chinese counterpart, Star General Chang Dingqiu, in Beijing.

The meeting, held at the Chinese side’s invitation, marks a pivotal moment in enhancing strategic cooperation between Egypt and China.
According to an official statement from the Egyptian Armed Forces released on July 16th, the visit underscores Egypt’s commitment to expanding military partnerships with friendly nations.
The discussions held during the visit focused on enhancing collaboration between the air forces of both nations, particularly in areas such as training programs, joint manufacturing ventures, and advanced technology transfers.

During his visit to China, Lieutenant General Mahmoud Foaad Abdel Gawad engaged with several key figures in the Chinese military establishment, including the Chinese Air Force’s deputy chief of staff and high-ranking officials from CATIC (China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corporation) and NORINCO (China North Industries Corporation).

Commander of the Egyptian Air Force Met His Chinese Counterpart.
He also visited Tangshan Air Force Base, where he witnessed a spectacular flying display by Chinese J-10 C fighter aircraft.
A poignant highlight of the visit was the exchange of gestures of goodwill, with General Chang Dingqiu presenting a commemorative shield to Major General Mahmoud Fouad Abdel Gawad against the backdrop of the impressive Chinese stealth fighters, J-20.
While specifics on joint manufacturing and technology transfer were not disclosed, the meeting underscored both countries’ commitment to exploring new avenues for collaboration.




The meeting between the Egyptian and Chinese air force commanders signifies a proactive step towards fostering deeper military ties. It reflects a shared commitment to mutual security interests and strategic collaboration in the region.

Egypt’s Potential Interest in Chinese Fighter Jets ​

Egypt and China have maintained a strong and longstanding defense relationship, marked by significant arms deals and joint production efforts over several decades. This strategic partnership began to take shape following Egypt’s substantial losses in the Yom Kippur War and its subsequent divergence from the Soviet Union.
In 1975, China and Egypt inked their inaugural weapons agreement, a historic milestone as China’s first foray into arms sales in the Middle East. The deal primarily centered on the acquisition of Xi’an H-6 bombers, setting the stage for a series of subsequent arms transactions.
Throughout the 1980s, Egypt expanded its military arsenal with a diverse array of Chinese hardware, including submarines, destroyers, missile boats, and aircraft like the F-7B and J-6 jet fighters, the latter of which were assembled locally in Egypt.
Moving into the 2000s and beyond, Egypt has increasingly turned to China for advanced aircraft, particularly in the context of combating threats like the Islamic State in the Sinai Peninsula.

This period saw Egypt procure a variety of sophisticated unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), such as the CH4B and Wing Loong 1. It also initiated local production of the ASN-209 reconnaissance UAV and assembled significant numbers of K-8 Karakorum training aircraft domestically.

Bayi Aerobatic Team of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force present an air show during the second edition of the World Defense Show in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia (Xinhua/Wang Dongzhen)
Now, against the backdrop of geopolitical shifts and global arms trade dynamics, Egypt is eyeing China as a pivotal supplier amidst constraints on traditional sources like Russia due to ongoing conflicts.
In 2023, reports surfaced detailing Egypt’s negotiations with China for the acquisition of the Chengdu J-10C multirole fighter.
Representatives from China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group even reportedly met the Egyptian officials to highlight the J-10C’s latest upgrades, which include advanced electronic warfare capabilities and an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar system.
In addition to this, in 2021, Beijing showcased its JF-17 series fighter jets and the L-15 advanced trainer jet at Egypt’s largest international defense expo.
Furthermore, China is aggressively promoting its latest fifth-generation fighter jet, the FC-31, which has garnered attention in the Middle East.

FC-31 Gyrfalcon
With its development led by the Aviation Industry Corporation of China and China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC), the FC-31 presents a potential opportunity for Egypt to enhance its air combat capabilities significantly.
A key attraction for Egypt in considering defense deals with China lies in Beijing’s policy of non-interference and careful assessment of the strategic impact of its exports. Unlike some Western suppliers, China does not impose political conditions on arms deals and ensures that such agreements do not disrupt the regional military balance.
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/j-20-in-background-china-may-have-pitched/

 

[Sami_1]

Egypt and the inevitability of getting rid of American weapons, such as the F-16 fighter jets. The United States began a policy of banning weapons against Egypt many years ago. For example, in the years 1987/1988, America refused for Egypt to sell Tu-16/H6 aircraft to Iraq and supply Egypt with a P-3C Orion aircraft to replace these. The plane

Since 1994, the United States has refused to allow Egypt to receive F-16 Block-50/52 fighters since 1994.
The United States refused for Egypt to buy 60-100 F-16 BLOCK 60 aircraft in 2006 and accepted for Egypt to buy 20 F-16 BLOCK 52 aircraft in 2009. Egypt was planning to produce fighters by 2012 locally, whether with a license from China, and Egypt was negotiating the production of the J-plane. 10A and China did not hesitate because it was the most modern aircraft it had at that time. China offered Egypt the production of 120 L-15 aircraft as an alternative to the K-8E aircraft. Egypt rejected the Chinese offer. The current regime deliberately did not produce weapons with a license within 10 years and stopped aircraft factories for the personal interests of the military. At that time, the Russians themselves were We agree that Egypt will produce one of the Russian aircraft in Egypt and even jointly develop weapons that will be produced for the first time in Egypt and Russia at the same time. We have always said that Egypt is bound to manufacture weapons locally because it cannot buy weapons completely without local production. We come to other points, the most important of which is the European side. The Americans and the West are the ones who created Israel in the Middle East to control or exhaust it, and thus Egypt will not be provided with its full weapons needs.
This is what became clear in the Rafale deals, a very high price and limited ammunition that was approved, then OFFSET is miserable, and also more importantly, France’s inability to meet the Egyptian needs for Rafale aircraft, even if it agreed to all of Egypt’s demands. For example, EART raised its order to 92 Rafale aircraft. India will sign a deal. 26 aircraft for the Indian Navy. This means to the authorities that any Egyptian requests will be met after the year 2030 if they are not assembled locally. The will to manufacture is actually lacking, so what is being done currently is two things. The strong criticism of those concerned is the regime that neglected industry and agriculture in Egypt for 10 years, which led to the deterioration of the Egyptian economy, and everyone knows that The process of weakening the Egyptian economy was carried out in a deliberate way to justify the sale of lands and the transfer of the state to the Emiratis and the Saudis, thus making it easier for the regime and its leadership to obtain their commissions outside Egypt, while selling the state’s assets to Egyptians who will expose them by selling these assets. Therefore, after the regime and its leaders obtained the money they wanted for their personal interests, they no longer have anything left. Except to repair the money, they will carry out industrialization and development operations to pass on what was stolen from Egypt’s wealth and plundered from Egypt to secure the lives of their grandchildren with this illegal money.
So Egypt has the best solution for China in a comprehensive deal that Egypt can

Purchasing an L-15 advanced training aircraft and a light fighter version, the L-15B, or even producing a version such as the L-15AW. Purchasing two companies of J-10CE/D aircraft as a temporary tactical aircraft to exchange the remaining MIRAGE-5 / ALPHJET aircraft and replace the L-59E aircraft.

Producing the FC-31/35 aircraft to replace the F-16 & MIRAGE-2000 aircraft serially within 15 years in two production batches, each batch of 120 aircraft.
Rumors related to Egypt's purchase of 40 J-20 aircraft are simply ruled out because the FC-31's ability is not far from the performance of the J-20 fighter, after the aircraft obtained stronger engines with a capacity of 28,000 pounds per engine. Any aircraft exceeds the Rafale in performance and range with armament, especially since we are still convinced that a deal The SU-35 was not canceled at all

Chinese aircraft represent solutions even in the field of transport aircraft. Egypt had previously requested 20 Y-20 aircraft to replace the fleet of C-130H aircraft. China had not produced its WS-20 engine and also did not want to export until after completing its requirements for the aircraft, and after China began offering it for export, it became It is currently an area of negotiation

Early warning aircraft for Egypt. Solutions such as working with China, India or Brazil to develop an early warning aircraft for use on one of the Chinese or Brazilian platforms, and even with French technical support, is very possible as long as the Swedish side refuses to sell early warning aircraft to Egypt.

The importance of Egypt implementing major arms deals in the field of fighters, which provides an alternative to foreigners in the field of fighters, and completes the series of the West’s departure as an industrial and technical controller of the world to the background of the East as an alternative. The second thing is that China benefits from selling fighters and aircraft to Egypt, confirming the quality of its air products and that it can meet the needs of countries instead of having restrictions. Western countries of the world

We see the West's treatment even of a NATO country, such as Turkey, which rejects Minya in a humiliating manner, allowing Turkey to supply up to 40 Typhoon fighters, even though Turkey is considered the protector of NATO's southern front. Consequently, the rest of the world's countries are still submitting to Western hegemony.
Therefore, we will find an offer from France and Europe to Egypt to push it to reject the Chinese deal so that Egypt remains under control and the Egyptian Air Force does not regain its full strength like in the past.

 

[Sami_1]

I don't see Turkey purchasing 150 EF2000. 40 maybe. And don't forget Germany : they are a real break in all weapons deal with non european country.

Regarding the Turks, everyone is happy that they left behind the arms race, whether they signed a contract to purchase 40 F-16 BOLCK 72 aircraft.
And the development of 80 + 35 aircraft and even the inclusion of 40 Eurofoghter TYPHOON aircraft. These contracts require years for implementation. In the case of signing F-16 contracts, they need 3 years to start delivery and workers to start development. The minimum, and regarding the TYPHOON aircraft, no less than 4 years from signing the contracts.
While Greece, to date, has developed 22 F-16V aircraft, and delivery rates will accelerate. It has received 24 Rafale aircraft, in addition to the contract for 20 F-35, and wants to join India in accelerating the contracting for 40 additional Rafale, meaning the Greeks simply bypassed them.

The Egyptians, after two months, begin delivering 30 new aircraft, supplied within two years from Rafale, and the rates of contracts with China are fast, with the start of delivery not exceeding two years after the signing of the contracts, in contrast to what Egypt will modernize the MIG-29 fighters, meaning we are one step ahead of them, and the FC-31 aircraft to be parallel to the Israeli F-35, so we have saved the limit. Minimum balance while working on full update

The most important point is that what Egypt spends on the modernization program will be less with a greater return. For example, if Egypt allocates 23 billion dollars
This number is sufficient to purchase 240 FC-31 aircraft at a cost of 18,000 million dollars, in addition to 5,000 to purchase another fighter with 40 fighters such as the J-20 or a larger number of J-10D, which highlights the return for performance better than other options.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Egypt would do well to first see China "commit" to the fighter through actual procurements before investing into it as a platform otherwise it may end up alone in having purchased this platform.

 

[Sami_1]

Egypt would do well to first see China "commit" to the fighter through actual procurements before investing into it as a platform otherwise it may end up alone in having purchased this platform.

There is a Chinese commitment to purchase the FC-31 aircraft, and money has already been pumped into purchasing WS-19 engines for it, with the preparation of 20 engines for production versions and not experiments alongside the aircraft. It has been exposed for years to Turkey and the project was presented with a participation worth $2 billion for the entire project. Turkey at the time rejected any Egyptian contract for the aircraft. The Chinese Air Force has intervened and already has requests to reverse the JF-17, which was developed as an export aircraft. Confidence in it has been limited. China needs a fifth-generation medium fighter as an alternative to the J-10 that works with the heavier aircraft. I do not think China developed the FC-31B version only for Chinese requirements, but also For the sake of customers, and also to speed up the process of entering service as a result of interest from more than one customer. If there are reports in 2022 that Egypt is interested in the aircraft, and also reports about Saudi Arabia’s interest, these are not just propaganda publications. They are an ongoing response to the American weapons sales policy when it refused to sell drones to Egypt and other countries. Things were disastrous

Egypt then purchased the WING LOONG 1/2 and CH-4B CH-5 aircraft, and Egypt announced its interest in the WZ-7/AR-500CJ aircraft, other than the CH-7, and even a large batch of the WJ-700 aircraft to meet various MALE/HALE/UCAV requirements. Simply put, China. You know that Egypt's contract will be large for a plane like the FC-31 because it will be the main plane in the Egyptian Air Force. Even if Egypt buys a plane like the J-20, it will not be in large numbers. On the contrary, raising the level of the FC-31 plane by using stronger engines and redesigning the plane as well as the capabilities of carrying weapons internally. A motivating factor for contracting, and as we mentioned previously, the Eastern aircraft, being less stealth than fighters such as the F-35, provided features that are not found in American fifth-generation fighters, which are simply the operating capabilities of Chinese fighters at the same level of performance as fourth-generation fighters, and also the low price of the aircraft makes it possible to possess large numbers, including the high level of threats to Egypt. In the Nile Basin countries, many things are required of Egypt, which is increasing the ability of the Egyptian Air Force to carry out air operations in countries more than 1,250 kilometers away from Egypt, such as Ethiopia or South Sudan, and even in Uganda, when water sources are threatened. This requires Egypt to obtain fighters, as well as tanker planes and even Transport planes carrying containers of cruise missiles in large numbers to destroy any threat to Egyptian water sources. Egypt abides by state law, but the Nile Basin countries are being used as a tool of blackmail and a threat to Egypt now.
Therefore, if an aircraft such as the FC-31 is produced locally in Egypt, Egypt will seek to increase the operating radius and increase the fuel capacity of the aircraft to implement a working radius of 1,000 miles with a good load of ammunition.
Unlike aircraft, China has munitions that are not available to the West, such as the CM-400KG and HD-A1, various supersonic and infrasonic cruise missiles. Integrating munitions from them is considered a good thing and adds diverse capabilities to Egyptian fighters. Purchasing large numbers of killers makes supplier countries like the Yen provide flexibility in integrating munitions. In addition, Egypt will buy the fighters with the Chinese currency and not the dollar, which makes the matter easier to finance for Egypt

China will benefit greatly from the fact that the plane is the main plane of the Air Force, from the point of gaining a good reputation for the plane, so the demand for it will increase. Indeed, it will be more marketable than the French Rafale, given that China can produce it in larger quantities. Even the local production line in Egypt will operate with a capacity of 24 birds annually, which will meet the Egyptian needs and some Limited export orders from Egypt
One point to another from which China will benefit will be the priority for a loyal wingman aircraft of one of the Chinese designs or even the manufacture of an aircraft that meets Egyptian needs. Consequently, the size of the Chinese economic benefit from exporting the aircraft to Egypt will increase. The Egyptian defense market is good. For example, Egypt was the first customer for Chinese weapons, after which Sudan and other countries became interested. Gulf with Chinese weapons After the effectiveness of Chinese weapons in Egypt, the good reputation of the Egyptian army makes any weapon it uses commercially successful.

 

[ety]

These are only mainly russian engine copy. At least russian technology as the specialty of China is Copy & Paste....
Few years ago the time between overhaul was very limited : 150 hours. Far far from the US engines.
So I really don't think they are able to reach for exemple the turbine temperature of the last US engines.

Indian sour grape.

 

[Sami_1]

These are only mainly russian engine copy. At least russian technology as the specialty of China is Copy & Paste....
Few years ago the time between overhaul was very limited : 150 hours. Far far from the US engines.
So I really don't think they are able to reach for exemple the turbine temperature of the last US engines.

Indian sour grape.

China has produced thousands of new generation engines
WS-10/15/20 China cannot be compared to other countries in Southeast Asia because it has made significant investments during the past twenty years.
The success of the WS-10 engine, which produced more than 1,000 engines for a series of aircraft, followed by the WS-15 engine that runs on the J-20.
France itself does not have the technology or funding to develop the M88 engine, which stopped the UAE’s contract for the Rafale in 2009, while China produces engines for fifth-generation fighters, while France will develop a derivative version of the M88 engine as an engine for the sixth-generation fighter by 2035, which shows the decline of major countries in the engine industry, while China is taking steps. Great and incomparable, of course
With India, which was unable to produce an engine parallel to the GE F-404 engine, which affects the rate of deliveries of the Tejas MK1A aircraft.



The WS-19 fits in the same footprint as the earlier Guizhou WS-13, but is of an entirely new design that incorporates the same technology as found on the Xian WS-15. The WS-19 is intended for the production versions of the Shenyang FC-31 medium-size stealth fighter such as the Shenyang J-35.

Guizhou incorporated many of the same technology as on the WS-15 to develop the WS-19, a 10-ton thrust engine with the same footprint as the earlier Guizhou WS-13

 

[maverick]

Their next ennemy is not Israel. They don't have to fear it.
More probably Turkey, about oil fields and or Lybia.
So they need a more ranged bird than F35.

Relationship are back to normal with Turkey

 

[Sami_1]

Israel is a failed project that has already ended. Some do not understand that Israel’s ability has become equal to Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis. The Turks, Iranians, and Ethiopians are being exploited by the West to encircle the Arab and Islamic world. Yes, Nasr deals peacefully with these countries, but for peace to be achieved, you must have the deterrent ability, and they must fight your power just as it struck. Egypt is the base of the Libyan Wattia, to be a lesson for some and a reminder that the blow they receive is a lesson for them, and as long as they stay away from dealing with the language of weapons, we deal with them, but by providing the ability to deter, so that each of them thinks a thousand times about overstepping our interests, and they will be punished. At the same time, peaceful relations provide trade exchange as a carrot in exchange for taking our interests into account and placing them as a priority

 

[Sami_1]