mythbuster
Trusted Member
Ik and PTI is burnt to ashes , there will be no rise of the phoenix....... cultists will have to find a new cult hero ....I suggest some pop singer shall be given a chance next time.
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I understand what you're trying to say but one must remember that India is the fundamental existential threat. India is quiet for now while its Afghan enablers willingly sacrifice their lives at the altar of Golwalkarian ideology.Are you comparing fighting TTP and BLA to war with Russia and Germany now? We are that weak?
Ye eik SHO ki maar hay.
The tragedy is that democracy was always subverted - which is why things came to this pass. As for the vote of no confidence, it was not part of an organic political process. There were multiple ways it could have been handled, but if PMLN itself was claiming 2018 elections were rigged, what was wrong about going to the people to get a fresh mandate from them ? In retrospect, PTIs fears over regime change turned out to be well-founded.Was Pakistan ever a democracy? Why did IK have problems accepting the VONC, is not that a democratic process?
You underestimate the thuggery of PMLN.
But who decides that? You? Who decides what harms the nationHaving 2/3rd majority is not a green light or a license to go around and try to prove you haven't matured and still can harm the national interest and harmony. Nawaz wanted to be a Ameer Ul Momineen if you remember.
I am sure the way PTI conducted itself, they would have just wasted the 2/3rd majority in center.
situation looks bad in bara.
Interestingly, the federal government has imposed an emergency as well as governor’s rule. The logic is hard to understand, though one lawyer suggested it may be because governor’s rule has a time limit while an emergency endorsed by parliament doesn’t. The federal government didn’t want a time limit or to leave the PTI government in place; hence, it used both. And with the kind of administrative measures taken, along with the cabinet announced, it doesn’t seem the new set-up is here for a short time.Governance by a technocratic administration in KP will help the PTI retain its popularity.
I was responding to it pragmatically and not questioning the absolute right or wrong as per the constitution.Well, when you put it like that, it seems military establishment didn't actually learn any lessons from its past debacles. Instead, it used those debacles to permanently close remaining legal loopholes that could potentially become a challenge to its absolute dominance in Pakistan.![]()
The point in bold applies to all those involved in Pakistani politics.Mr Imran Khan is a civilian who was elected to parliament, and then elected Prime Minister. He ruled according to the Constitution and was deposed using constitutional, though politically dubious, means. He and his party are now political prisoners.
Now let's compare to the khaki duffers who have ruled (ruined) Pakistan by the gun. Did any of them ever win an election ? Did they ever obey any court order ? Did they ever consult the people (Parliament) ? Did any of them obey the Constitution ?
Were they ever charged in any court and jailed for their crimes ??
No, never happened. There is no comparison between civilian leadership and the criminal dictators who come to power illegally and rule via oppression and murder.
Asim Munir's fate will be the same as all other dictator criminals of Pakistan. Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
That might be acceptable if the Fauji leadership was at least as competent as some of the other autocratic institutions running places like China or Iran.Dont get me wrong i stand with democracy( not the western liberal style), but there is simply no space for such adventures in a country like Pakistan, where there arent any instituitions nor the leaders capable of handling accountability by the masses
There is a difference. In the first case, it was utter anarchy and blood was spilled. In the latter, it is constitutional overreach. Don't think anyone is being "praised" for being a savior. It is yet another chapter in Pakistan's political history.When people overran military installations on 9 May 2023 — they were branded as "terrorists" & convicted. When military establishment overruns civilian institutions — it is hero worshipped as "saviors".![]()
Yet in every single "military dispensation", the economy has stabilized, reforms have been enacted (whatever came afterwards immediately discarded, repealed those reforms thus no long term sustained benefit), foreign relations stabilized, greater internal security etc.That might be acceptable if the Fauji leadership was at least as competent as some of the other autocratic institutions running places like China or Iran.
Take the example of Iran - despite also being a security State since the Islamic Revolutions and suffering under brutal sanctions and a brutal war imposed on it by Saddam’s Iraq, their human development indicators far outpace Pakistan, whether education, nutrition, healthcare etc.
What Pakistan has is the worst of all worlds - corruption, incompetence and a lack of political will to undertake any major structural reforms in the economy or institutions, made worse with the bickering between ethnically distinct provinces and the various parties/groups propped up by the Fauj to manipulate the political system and preserve their control.
The regimes in China and Iran did it the correct way - pick a system, formalize the system, and then let the system run, adapt and evolve to changing needs and requirements. Those countries can point to magnitudes more human development over the same time period as Pakistan.
The Fauj has given us neither democracy nor a competent autocratic system - we continue muddling along in a decrepit feudal, class/biradro based system that has kept most of the ills of colonialism.
How many of the former chiefs have retired "overseas"? I can tell you, of the living ones, the oldest is Aslam Beg (In Pakistan), Asif Janjua (deceased in Pakistan), Wahid Kakar (Pakistan), Jehangir Karamat (in Pakistan), Pervez Musharraf (deceased, died in Dubai on account of a very rare health issue), Kiyani (Pakistan), Raheel Sharif (Pakistan) and even Bajwa is in Pakistan.Everyone has misunderstood military establishment
Its not some sort of deep state that has a different view of the country..this isnt KBG, mossad or CIA or RAW who are all patriots to their country
This is actually pretty straightforward people who think of one thing..how to make money and retire overseas(none of the above retire on islands )
Unlike the above they have no connection with the country they dont care about it, wont retire or live in it ..for them pakistan is an enterprise to make money and leave
Enterprise in north is minerals (kpk)
Enterprise in south is drugs (karachi)
And the one on west is oil smuggling (Balochistan)
They just create instability to keep the populace under control its self created permanent instability via own proxies of Taliban
Americans were right.. obviously