Full Text of Controversial Imran Khan Cypher Released

[Jango007]

Ill leave your last cop out to the usual “look it up”

But, please explain again - how is this relevant to the question on the diplomatic front?

What PTI did do or did not do and what the IMF asks is pure whataboutism but Ill humor you.

The IMF issue is not some new invention of today’s government, and it wasn’t unique to PTI either. Pakistan has been in and out of IMF programs for decades, and the IMF’s core message has stayed remarkably consistent: widen the tax base, improve compliance, and stop relying on borrowed money and repeated short-term fixes.

On the record, PTI has both talked reform and then later fought or softened on painful tax issues, especially when those reforms became politically costly. The broader agricultural tax push, for example, was a recurring imf linked demand, and even PTI positions have not been consistent when the pressure became real.

Hence, pointless whataboutism to the issue of a long term economic issue when PTI was still holding empty gatherings in backyards.

So your words are holy grail and what you say is truth and what others write is all look it up to you ) quite a cavalier attitude you have!

Please Go back and read what my post was in response to. I responded to the diplomatic issue in a separate post.

I didn't ask you to look anything up and you are merely repeating what I just wrote.Infact it seems you reworded what I wrote with your usual make little sense elaboration and conjunctures ...

Anyways we can agree on this part fully: " IMF issue is not some new invention of today’s government, and it wasn’t unique to PTI either. Pakistan has been in and out of IMF programs for decades, and the IMF’s core message has stayed remarkably consistent: widen the tax base, improve compliance, and stop relying on borrowed money and repeated short-term fixes."

 

[Watandar]

In that case your ideals would be Sharif's and Zardaris who continue to prosper through small stumbles.

Zardari and Sharif would be irrelevant a long time ago if your khaki overlords had allowed Pakistan to evolve politically, after 1947 or 1971 or 1988 or 2008 or even today. But they want power and money above all else.

 

[Watandar]

You discussed all the IMF programs and yet fundamentally failed to understand the very basic fabric of how IMF deal was sabotaged by Imran Khan. At the beginning of that year, Pakistan committed to IMF that the petroleum levy and electricity prices would be increased, however when the NCV's success was without any doubt, IK reneged the commitments made to the IMF and actually lowered the prices of electricity and petroleum levy which were placed as financial mines for PDM, and by extension for all Pakistanis.

And whomever does not understand that, is lying to himself and to all others around him. What a disservice to the country this is; to keep supporting that immoral, corrupt, lying, unpatriotic and sad excuse of a human!

Every Pakistani govt before and after Imran Khan has behaved the same way, get money from IMF for temporary relief and then not fulfill the commitments. It's why Pakistan is stuck in never ending IMF cycles. Singling out PTI is merely bias.

 

[Oscar]

When British wanted to impress locals they would pick someone from locals... dress him up , give him a title and escort and present him as their spokesperson. Locals would be impressed that one of theirs is Saab ji and gore Saab's favourite.....unfortunately this thinking is prevalent and very well alive in our DNA. We get so impressed when gore picks us and says few sympathetic words and we dont even realize how we are being used........
I will see someone like Trump praising me as the greatest of dishonour and insult rather than bow down and pledge alligence to Washington...
Iranians need someone...anyone....to buy them time and negotiate through who they feel is an American slave

Let us all see how long before Munir and others are discarded and thrown in the garbage like a used urine catheter......

So basically don quixote ranting at the windmills?

We all know the British loved their handpicked brown sahibs. We read the syllabus. Dragging the East India Company into every modern diplomatic photo op however is total uncle rant with zero substance.

Screaming “American slave” at anyone mediating a deal shows a zero level understanding of how nations actually talk. Iran uses backchannels because they want to survive and protect their interests. They don’t have the luxury of these useless jazbaati virginity tests.

Yes - Gora worship is a long term issue. But survival is also a problem long term created, perpetuated, bulwarked against and cycled all throughout by the system in Pakistan.

 

[Goenitz]

I am confused

So you are citing an article that is consistently stating

“According to a former PTI official, Munir “used undiplomatic language in Iran and deviated from the strategy the Pakistani government had discussed internally prior to the trip,” which is characteristic of Munir’s style. A source who served in Khan’s inner circle confirmed the account to Drop Site”

So two sources with clear ties and bias with PTI state this incident and its considered gospel?

I left that part too. I focused on the missile range thing. Can we debate this issue openly in Pakistan?

Q: If missile range was such an important thing to the US, and bajwa couldn't deliver the visit, and asim got COAS with US support (IMF loans, not citing 27 Nov killings, military trials of civilians, suppressing election reports, etc..) even before Iran's war, what did the US see in Asim to do that?

 

[VCheng]

For that matter we see the same with MAGA now - so that cult allegiance isn’t a Pakistani specific phenomenon but shows how damaging cults can be even to established institutions let alone farcical ones.

Of course. The only difference between the two is the underlying foundations: one is strong enough to bear the burden, and the other one is not, both by design. We can extend your point to many others also in various flavors, including Russia, China, Iran et al.

 

[Oscar]

Of course. The only difference between the two is the underlying foundations: one is strong enough to bear the burden, and the other one is not, both by design. We can extend your point to many others also in various flavors, including Russia, China, Iran et al.

I don’t know about being strong enough to bear burdens. In the context of civilizations very few have survived burdens of change.

 

[Oscar]

I left that part too. I focused on the missile range thing. Can we debate this issue openly in Pakistan?

Q: If missile range was such an important thing to the US, and bajwa couldn't deliver the visit, and asim got COAS with US support (IMF loans, not citing 27 Nov killings, military trials of civilians, suppressing election reports, etc..) even before Iran's war, what did the US see in Asim to do that?

Ok - so then there is no unbiased view on current FM? That doesn’t absolve him of other excesses in oppression of PTI but that accusation stands hollow.

Then, its conjecture since missile range for Shaheen III has been long locked in to Indian targets partly with US pressure and partly because you don’t rock the boat.

Bajra was a completely compromised individual and that was clear back in 2019.
His personal interests are in the hundred million range throughout the US and ME beating out many other Generals by ten folds.

After all even the beloved Gen Raheel has the castle outside ring road does he not?

But then so do many politicians - and unfortunately until Bushra Peerbi Imran Khan was considered fairly compliant to lawful wealth which made him such the stand out option regardless of his flips.

However, neither of these have to do with missile range being a Bajwa issue and more to do with international sensibility and only chewing off what you can because when you create greater ranges you do it for a reason -
To hit a target at that range.

Who is the target beyond India you then declare for such a range?

Do you think India which launches satellites reliably is limited to a 6000km missile in Agni V? Or now someone in India also selling out.

 

[VCheng]

I don’t know about being strong enough to bear burdens. In the context of civilizations very few have survived burdens of change.

Of course all civilizations fall at some point, but that is a far wider discussion than what this thread is for IMO.

What is clear, in the context of this thread, is that the fever of IK's cult, is gradually receding further and further into the checkered history of Pakistan, the current spasm rehashing the cipher notwithstanding.

 

[Oscar]

So your words are holy grail and what you say is truth and what others write is all look it up to you ) quite a cavalier attitude you have!

Please Go back and read what my post was in response to. I responded to the diplomatic issue in a separate post.

I didn't ask you to look anything up and you are merely repeating what I just wrote.Infact it seems you reworded what I wrote with your usual make little sense elaboration and conjunctures ...

Anyways we can agree on this part fully: " IMF issue is not some new invention of today’s government, and it wasn’t unique to PTI either. Pakistan has been in and out of IMF programs for decades, and the IMF’s core message has stayed remarkably consistent: widen the tax base, improve compliance, and stop relying on borrowed money and repeated short-term fixes."

Now we’re projecting.

You keep changing the subject the moment your argument gets boxed in.

The point was diplomacy.
You moved to poverty.
Then IMF. Then PTI.

You keep talking down to everyone else while repeating the same IMF talking points as if repetition makes them original.

You also want to accuse others of copy paste while doing a polished version of the same PTI talking point playbook under new packaging .

If you have an argument on diplomacy, make it.
If you have an argument on economics, make that.

Right now you’re just bouncing between topics and then when called out on your “But what about this?” Just went straight to “antisemitism!!!”

 

[Jango007]

So basically don quixote ranting at the windmills?

We all know the British loved their handpicked brown sahibs. We read the syllabus. Dragging the East India Company into every modern diplomatic photo op however is total uncle rant with zero substance.

Screaming “American slave” at anyone mediating a deal shows a zero level understanding of how nations actually talk. Iran uses backchannels because they want to survive and protect their interests. They don’t have the luxury of these useless jazbaati virginity tests.

Yes - Gora worship is a long term issue. But survival is also a problem long term created, perpetuated, bulwarked against and cycled all throughout by the system in Pakistan.

Please I dont mean any insult or show harshness towards you. I actually enjoy reading your over the top posts....

You are eloquent in your writing style but not so much with your thoughts and understanding of the issues at hand.

I enjoy reading your posts because somehow you manage to play on both sides and leave the reader confused as to what in the world you just posted. I remember you ....if I am not mistaken...from the old forum always starting with a disclaimer that you were once a PTI supporter and then you saw the light and realized there is an alternative truth in this world and started bashing PTI
By the way this is a classic sign of Patwaris who always start with a similar disclaimer )))

Anyways back to the point and your word manipulation of what others post and what your highness try to impress upon the readers as truth coming only from you.

Lets take your post above and disect these two statements that you made:

"We all know the British loved their handpicked brown sahibs. We read the syllabus. Dragging the East India Company into every modern diplomatic photo op however is total uncle rant with zero substance."

and

"Yes - Gora worship is a long term issue. But survival is also a problem long term created, perpetuated, bulwarked against and cycled all throughout by the system in Pakistan."

All I did in my post was to apply historical context to a serious disease that our elites suffer from you and you repeated the exact same message and accept that "YES GORA WORSHIP IS A LONG TERM ISSUE". So you agreed with my assertion but yet you couldn't help but twist, manipulate and rephrase exact same argument that I posted but presented it as right and wrong all within one post.

lets continue:

"Screaming “American slave” at anyone mediating a deal shows a zero level understanding of how nations actually talk. Iran uses backchannels because they want to survive and protect their interests. They don’t have the luxury of these useless jazbaati virginity tests".

This is a border line idiotic statement.....WE ARE THE SLAVES OF AMERICA. NO one is screaming ....merely pointing the obvious. Again you called my first part a zero level understanding and then posted exactly what I posted that Iran needs an outlet to survive...via Pakistan..... which again doesn't show any supreme diplomacy from the Pakistani side but merely shows Pakistan's value as a tin can outside Masjid cooler which everyone drinks from.

Pakistan's role ....as someone pointed out.....is like of a marriage hall where two parties get married and pay their bills for the service but by no means can be considered as the one responsible for arranging the marriage or making sure the marriage lasts.

 

[Jango007]

Now we’re projecting.

You keep changing the subject the moment your argument gets boxed in.

The point was diplomacy.
You moved to poverty.
Then IMF. Then PTI.

You keep talking down to everyone else while repeating the same IMF talking points as if repetition makes them original.

You also want to accuse others of copy paste while doing a polished version of the same PTI talking point playbook under new packaging .

If you have an argument on diplomacy, make it.
If you have an argument on economics, make that.

Right now you’re just bouncing between topics and then when called out on your “But what about this?” Just went straight to “antisemitism!!!”

RIGHT.....You have brought in range of topics in your response and when I respond, you claim I am moving goal posts.....

IMF fight was more than the diesel price ..I think every kid in Pakistan knows that and is pretty common knowledge...all publicly available and well known but when I post this because I grew up listening to what IMF is begging for from us for the last 40 years then I am copy and pasting from PTI source!!!! Great argument...


Let's just move on. I have to write 30 charts before I go home and I am exhausted.

 

[Mav3rick]

Zardari and Sharif would be irrelevant a long time ago if your khaki overlords had allowed Pakistan to evolve politically, after 1947 or 1971 or 1988 or 2008 or even today. But they want power and money above all else.

Ever been to Sindh? Zardaris and Bhuttos are celebrated as Gods all over Sindh. What can the establishment do about that? At the end of the day, it is the Sindhi who vote for Zardaris and Bhuttos!

I have been to Lahore a few times and most of my friends are Punjabis, the support for Nawaz is also quite strong there. What can the establishment do about that? At the end of the day, it is the Punjabi who vote for Sharifs!

Actually, the establishment did try to do something, it created a 3rd option for Pakistanis which we gobbled up with great delight thinking that we would be rid of Zardaris and Sharifs and their likes......what we ended up with was worse, far worse. And correction of that failed 3rd option has been costing us ever since.

 

[Mav3rick]

Every Pakistani govt before and after Imran Khan has behaved the same way, get money from IMF for temporary relief and then not fulfill the commitments. It's why Pakistan is stuck in never ending IMF cycles. Singling out PTI is merely bias.

I am not trying to single out PTI or Imran Khan, what I have been trying to explain is that IK and PTI are the same as other parties but that IK's performance was even worse. Give me back the Pakistan we had in 2017, before the failed experiment kicked off.

 

[VCheng]

Give me back the Pakistan we had in 2017, before the failed experiment kicked off.

"Start over, start fresh, put things right." - Jesse Pinkman.

"No, kid, that's the one thing you can never do." - Mike Ehrmantraut.