Green light for Eurofighter from Germany for the Turkish Air Force

[MMM-E]

That’s exactly my point. The first prototype of Turkish engine is expected to run in 2028-29, something India achieved back in 1995.

Never
The Indian KAVERİ engine was dismantled every time and the project failed

30 years and failure .... nothing else

 

[Ali_Baba]

Your logic is so absurd ... I am not talking about color
I can mod a Ferrari 458 with twin turbo 1.000 hp power to be superior to a stock Ferrari 458

I am talking about technology with advanced avionics-electronics and weapon systems

F-16 is same platform for Block30/40/50/60/70

The difference between the blocks is the advanced technologies including AESA Radar

and only Block70 has AESA Radar
first one is American VIPER and other is Turkish OZGUR


OZGUR upgrade modernizes the block 40/50 standard F-16s with new technologies and increases it to block 70 level




Because USA doesnt allow Turkiye to modernize all F-16s for OZGUR upgrade

79 F-16 Block40/50+ for VIPER modernization

35 F-16 Block30 and other 115 F-16 Block 40/50 for OZGUR modernization

OZGUR and VIPER are same capabilities with AESA Radar and other advanced Systems for Block70 standard

Turkish OZGUR upgrade is not block30/40/50/52 standard which lack AESA Radar

I will say this again - there is only one F16 Block 70, it is the one that Lockheed Martin sells. You can all Ozgur what ever you want - regardless of its technical capabilities, it is not a Block 70. Block 70 means Lockheed Martin ....

@Deino - you want to take crack at this nut ?

 

[MMM-E]

I will say this again - there is only one F16 Block 70, it is the one that Lockheed Martin sells. You can all Ozgur what ever you want - regardless of its technical capabilities, it is not a Block 70. Block 70 means Lockheed Martin ....

You dont know even what about Block 70

Block70 standard = American VIPER and Turkish OZGUR with AESA Radar and other advanced Systems

OZGUR has nothing less than the block 70 standard .. even there is more

 

[UKBengali]

I will say this again - there is only one F16 Block 70, it is the one that Lockheed Martin sells. You can all Ozgur what ever you want - regardless of its technical capabilities, it is not a Block 70. Block 70 means Lockheed Martin ....

@Deino - you want to take crack at this nut ?

I think there is a misunderstanding between you two.

What @MMM-E is saying, is that Ozgur takes the F-16 to Block-70 standard, which is not the same as calling it Block 70.

Remember Block 70 is now 10 years old and so it is quite possible that Ozgur does offer similar capabilities to Block-70.

 

[MMM-E]

Remember Block 70 is now 10 years old and so it is quite possible that Ozgur does offer similar capabilities to Block-70.

even better than Block70

Turkish OZGUR upgrade has superior capabilities to Greek VIPER modernization

-- Instrument landing system
-- DB-110 POD
-- Night Vision Cueing and Display (NVCD)
-- TULGAR next gen HMDS similar to F-35
-- Havelsan EHSIM RF Decoy against RF guided Missiles
-- superior land attack capability with SOM , CAKIR , KUZGUN-TJ , TOLUN-IIR
-- superior air to air engagement with GOKHAN ramjet powered long range air to air missile


-- AESA Radar
-- Electronic Warfare Suite
-- Digital Cockpit
-- Advanced Mission Computer
-- Advanced friend or foe identification system.
-- Inertial Navigation System
-- Link-16 data link
-- 9681 V/UHF air radio
-- Multifunction Cockpit Center Display Active Matrix Liquid Crystal Display
-- Fuel Hydraulic Gauge
-- Inertial Navigation System
-- Engine Indicator Display
-- National Sound Safety Device
-- ASELPOD Targeting Pod
and many more


on the other hand what about Greek F-16V modernization ?

 

[UKBengali]

even better than Block70

Turkish OZGUR upgrade has superior capabilities to Greek VIPER modernization

-- Instrument landing system
-- DB-110 POD
-- Night Vision Cueing and Display (NVCD)
-- TULGAR next gen HMDS similar to F-35
-- Havelsan EHSIM RF Decoy against RF guided Missiles
-- superior land attack capability with SOM , CAKIR , KUZGUN-TJ , TOLUN-IIR
-- superior air to air engagement with GOKHAN ramjet powered long range air to air missile


-- AESA Radar
-- Electronic Warfare Suite
-- Digital Cockpit
-- Advanced Mission Computer
-- Advanced friend or foe identification system.
-- Inertial Navigation System
-- Link-16 data link
-- 9681 V/UHF air radio
-- Multifunction Cockpit Center Display Active Matrix Liquid Crystal Display
-- Fuel Hydraulic Gauge
-- Inertial Navigation System
-- Engine Indicator Display
-- National Sound Safety Device
-- ASELPOD Targeting Pod
and many more


on the other hand what about Greek F-16V modernization ?

Has Turkey ever developed a fighter radar before?

US is the leader in fighter radar and the APG-83 is the 3rd generation of AESA radars they have built for fighter aircraft.

Remember a radar is not just hardware but the all important software and you can only get good at this through experience

 

[MMM-E]

Has Turkey ever developed a fighter radar before?

US is the leader in fighter radar and the APG-83 is the 3rd generation of AESA radars they have built for fighter aircraft.

Turkiye has never developed UCAV before
but now Turkish AKINCI UCAV is superior to American MQ-9 UCAV

The USA is not the only country on earth with advanced technology



Turkiye has GaN based AESA Radar technology for land-naval-air platforms


Turkiye takes its place among the few countries in the global arena with this technology.

produced with 100% national resources, from chip level to final system integration.

Aselsan MURAD AESA Radar is coming for F-16 OZGUR modernization


The chips produced at the AB Micronano Laboratory, established in partnership with ASELSAN and Bilkent University, have taken MURAD AESA to a higher level than its American counterparts. It is stated that the national AESA radar has twice the sending and receiving capacity of the AN/APG-77 type radar used on F-22




Aselsan MURAD Gan based AESA Radar has 1.152 T/R Modules for long range detection

Aselsan BURFIS AESA Rdar will have 2.000+ GaN T/R modules for the KAAN Fighter Jet


AN/APG-77 AESA Radar detect 1m2 RCS target from 200+ km
AN/APG-81 AESA Radar detect 1m2 RCS target from 160+ km

RAFALE Fighter Jet old RBE2 AESA Radar detect 1m2 RCS target from 110-130 km away ( with 838 GaAs T/R modules )

 

[UKBengali]

Turkiye has never developed UCAV before
but now Turkish AKINCI UCAV is superior to American MQ-9 UCAV

The USA is not the only country on earth with advanced technology



Turkiye has GaN based AESA Radar technology for land-naval-air platforms


Turkiye takes its place among the few countries in the global arena with this technology.

produced with 100% national resources, from chip level to final system integration.

Aselsan MURAD AESA Radar is coming for F-16 OZGUR modernization
View attachment 73955

The chips produced at the AB Micronano Laboratory, established in partnership with ASELSAN and Bilkent University, have taken MURAD AESA to a higher level than its American counterparts. It is stated that the national AESA radar has twice the sending and receiving capacity of the AN/APG-77 type radar used on F-22

View attachment 73956
View attachment 73957

Aselsan MURAD Gan based AESA Radar has 1.152 T/R Modules for long range detection

AN/APG-77 AESA Radar detect 1m2 RCS target from 200+ km
AN/APG-81 AESA Radar detect 1m2 RCS target from 160+ km

RAFALE Fighter Jet old RBE2 AESA Radar detect 1m2 RCS target from 110-130 km away ( with 838 GaAs T/R modules )

I am sure that the AESA radar upgrade will be at least decent but sometimes things take time and it is not just about range and simultaneous tracks/engagements.

There is also false returns, clutter and also resistance to electronic countermeasures to think about. All these things take time and experience to perfect.

 

[MMM-E]

There is also false returns, clutter and also resistance to electronic countermeasures to think about. All these things take time and experience to perfect.

Turkish ASELSAN has great experience for all these technologies

Also next gen Electronic Warfare Suite and HAVASOJ stand off Jammer Aircarft

when GOKHAN ramjet powered long range air to air missile is ready then good luck to F-16V and RAFALE

 

[UKBengali]

Turkish ASELSAN has great experience for all these technologies

I am sure the radar will be decent but the US APG-83 has decades of AESA radar experience that it was built from.

ASELAN has never built a fighter radar and although they can use their knowledge of radars from land and shipbased platforms to start from, it is not the same type of radar and they would need many years of experience to optimise the software.

No problem being optimistic but sometimes we need to temper them till we see what the final product is like.

 

[MMM-E]

I am sure the radar will be decent but the US APG-83 has decades of AESA radar experience that it was built from.

ASELAN has never built a fighter radar and although they can use their knowledge of radars from land and shipbased platforms to start from, it is not the same type of radar and they would need many years of experience to optimise the software.

There is no such rule in technology

the best example is Turkish UCAV technology
Turkish AKINCI UCAV is superior to American MQ-9 UCAV

Türkiye is developing a system by adding the latest technologies
even there will be AI supported capabillity


Official Source from ASELSAN

THE EVOLUTION OF AIR SUPERIORITY - ASELSAN

www.aselsan.com

Advantages Over Mechanical Systems

ASELSAN’s AESA Radar System MURAD 110-A, which represents a leap forward from traditional radar systems, uses a grid of thousands of tiny transmit/receive modules, unlike mechanically scanned radars that rely on moving parts for antenna beam steering. This allows for rapid and simultaneous tracking of multiple targets, providing pilots with enhanced situational awareness. The result is not only improved detection capabilities, but also the ability to engage multiple threats with a high precision.

The implications of this technology are profound. In air-to-air combat, where split-second decisions can mean the difference between victory and defeat, the enhanced tracking and targeting capabilities of MURAD 110-A Radar offers a significant advantage. Pilots equipped with these systems can identify and engage enemy aircraft with remarkable accuracy, even in the presence of electronic countermeasures designed to obscure radar signatures. This edge is critical in modern warfare, where stealth and speed often dictate the outcome of engagements.

AESA Fire Control Radars: A New Era in Air-to-Air and Air-to-Ground Missions

In the air domain, AESA radar is the heart of 5th generation fighter aircrafts. AESA radars allow for comprehensive situational awareness, enabling pilots to detect and engage multiple targets at great distances. The ability to simultaneously track and target various threats makes MURAD 110-A Radar indispensable for air superiority and precision strike missions. The enhanced resolution and accuracy of MURAD 110-A Radar significantly improve interception capabilities, ensuring that defensive measures remain effective in the face of sophisticated threats.

The use of AESA radars allows for effective ground surveillance and target acquisition, making them invaluable in multi-role UAVs. This versatility means that aircrafts equipped with AESA technology can adapt to a range of mission profiles—from air superiority to ground support—without sacrificing effectiveness.

In conclusion, the integration of MURAD 110-A fire control radar into fighter jets and UAVs is a game changing development in military aviation. As military forces continue to adapt to the complexities of evolving threats, AESA radars stand out as a game-changer, reinforcing their position as a critical asset.

 

[.44 Magnum Lever Action]

Maybe it's just me who is confused here, and I am trying to understand but getting mixed signals from the Turkish Air Force.

So there exists a domestic upgrade program for the F-16 to bring it up to Block 70 equivalent standard called Ozgur and the program is in full swing. Several hundred F-16 in inventory. Then why 23 billion dollars for a handful of new Viper and 79 upgrade kits?

Then you have the Eurofighter Typhoon entering the equation. Last I was aware of, F-16 Block 70 isn't some MiG-21 in front of the Eurofighter. It can most definitely hold its own. Why go through humiliation by the Germans who have been in Turkey for more than a week now trying to get promises out of them not to use the weaponry against Greece? Not to mention each Typhoon will cost nearly $300 million dollars including spares, maintenance, training, etc.

All of this while major platforms like KAAN and Kizilelma are nearing completion within the next 5 years.

Does Turkiye plan to invade Mordor that it needs such a massive air force immediately? The deals being contemplated with the US and Euro Consortium aren't even going to be delivered quickly, sure a dozen Eurofighters might be ready by 2026 or 2027 but what will that really achieve?

Does Turkiye really expect someone like Germany, who has been ready to humiliate Turkiye politically at all opportunities for the past 15 years or more, to participate in the building of this massive cutting edge air force?

To me the logical way forward is to modernize the F-16 in house and bite your tongue till KAAN is operational.

Turkiye claims to produce 80% of all defence products indigeniously and aims for 100% within the next decade. Eurofighter Typhoon and Vipers and kits from the U.S. are steps that are going to take you backwards.

 

[MMM-E]

Does Turkiye plan to invade Mordor that it needs such a massive air force immediately? The deals being contemplated with the US and Euro Consortium aren't even going to be delivered quickly, sure a dozen Eurofighters might be ready by 2026 or 2027 but what will that really achieve?

Turkish Air Force lost 100 F-35A Fighter Jets which were planned to replace old F-4 fleet and 35 F-16 Block 30s between 2018 and 2030



if NO 100 F-35A
then 40 new F-16V and 40 new Eurofighter until 2030

 

[.44 Magnum Lever Action]

Turkish Air Force lost 100 F-35A Fighter Jets which will replace old F-4 fleet and 35 F-16 Block 30s between 2018 and 2030


if NO 100 F-35A
then 40 new F-16V and 40 new Eurofighter until 2030

My brother I understand the need to replace the Phantoms and certain F-16 frames might be too stressed to upgrade. I realize the F-35 debacle was a big setback. But everyone knows that Lockheed's production lines are backlogged for years. If Turkiye placed an order today, you would not receive the first Viper until 2030-2032. Again, I am confused not only by this self imposed "timeline" narrative, but also the desire to stall and drain resources from indigenous programs and solutions in favor of something that is ready off the shelf. A billion dollars for 3 Typhoon or Viper. When the capability exists to upgrade F-16 to their standard. Maybe I am not understanding something very basic.

 

[MMM-E]

But everyone knows that Lockheed's production lines are backlogged for years. If Turkiye placed an order today, you would not receive the first Viper until 2030-2032.

Turkiye wants to produce 40 F-16V under license as like Turkish Aerospace Industries produced 270 F-16 Fighter Jets under license for the Turkish and Egyptian Air Forces

if Turkiye and USA agreed on this agreement in 2025
Turkish Aerospace Industries can produce 40 F-16V in 2 years until the end of 2027