H-1B visas must end’: Wife of US citizen shares plight of landing IT jobs

[Watandar]

@Watandar

Europe has quietly become an outsourcing powerhouse. South America and Africa are also becoming challengers in the IT nearshoring landscape.

I don't see Pakistan in this list. Maybe if the GOP changes its priorities, this can change. No reason why it can't emerge as a player with its demographics and Anglophone education.

Regards

GOP missed the bus on offshore manufacturing, trade, tourism ,minerals and services offshoring and is determined to maintain its stellar record.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

@Mighty_Dragon_Strike

then for you sub saharan hunger common across Indian landscape, is it 'raw enough'?!!

I am sure that would be raw enough. Doesnt explain how IND is involved in US-VEN war.

Regards

dont act like a kid, I'm not ur dad, do some hard work yourself!

 

[Sam6536]

The crux of this topic is simple, Services is one of the areas where American MNCs have a surplus. It has been made possible due to comparatively cheap influx of Indian workers.

Americans presented the demand, the Indians supplied. Since the 2010s every Indian home has had an engineer, software engineers of late. There is no grand plan behind this, it's basic Keynesian market economics.

India and China have humongous populations, you can find India and Chinese expats working globally almost anywhere. India as a matter of policy targeted IT and dominates IT for that same reason.

I don't know what the whole discussion is about. If america wants to wean off Indian IT India will take its business elsewhere, domestic demand is growing and surplus commodity is always in demand in the market. It's not simple as Ctrl C and Ctrl V for America.

People say China cannot be replaced in manufacturing now that is true but a nation can choose to not import from China as a result the said nation will have to pay substantially more for the same substitute good.

Demand and supply people. I don't know how people bring race as a question here, it's all a matter of national policy.

 

[Sam6536]

One other example would be Merchant Navy, my cousin is a second engineer on a crude oil ship. His Chief Engineer is Russian, now the ship crew consisted of mix of Indian and Filipinos and some other ethnicities. The Russian CE considers Indians better to interact and work with due to language and the work ethics.

This is just a personal anecdote. The reason Indians dominate in blue collar and white collar jobs.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Sam6536

I don't know how people bring race as a question here, it's all a matter of national policy.

It appears here as the majority nationality of the forum is big neither in manufactures nor in services.

Regards

 

[Meengla]

Funny that you and your friends here think this is some sort of competition.

Is this some perpetual plan for hyphenation now? Because honestly, we are starting to think we should not be hyphenated with you.

Honestly, having spent some time in Pakistan in last some weeks and having spent hours with Indian travelers on flights to/from Pakistan, I have no hesitation in saying that Pakistanis are not only better looking ones but also don't stink as much and are more polite in social interactions. I know what some might say a 'small sample' but I think I am a very observant person--and a very curious one too: In just 3-4 hours on the transit at the Miami Airport last night, I had already struck several interesting conversations with total strangers at a bar near the departure gate. It is an insatiable curious nature.

But, yes, I do firmly believe Pakistanis are in general different from Indians which the larger world doesn't seem to realize except by avid travelers. Oh, while my 'immigration' last night at the Miami Airport lasted only about 30 seconds, the white dude, perhaps trying to trick me, asked the first question 'how was your trip to India?'. I said, 'No, I am coming from Pakistan via Qatar'. Haha!

 

[Watandar]

The crux of this topic is simple, Services is one of the areas where American MNCs have a surplus. It has been made possible due to comparatively cheap influx of Indian workers.

Americans presented the demand, the Indians supplied. Since the 2010s every Indian home has had an engineer, software engineers of late. There is no grand plan behind this, it's basic Keynesian market economics.

India and China have humongous populations, you can find India and Chinese expats working globally almost anywhere. India as a matter of policy targeted IT and dominates IT for that same reason.

I don't know what the whole discussion is about. If america wants to wean off Indian IT India will take its business elsewhere, domestic demand is growing and surplus commodity is always in demand in the market.

People say China cannot be replaced in manufacturing now that is true but a nation can choose to not import from China as a result the said nation will have to pay substantially more for the same substitute good.

Demand and supply people. I don't know how people bring race as a question here, it's all a matter of national policy.

The discussion is why Indians and Indians only formed 99% of the supply of IT professionals for last 30 years when there are many nationalities around the world able to do same job. The primary vehicle for this was the H1b visa and Indians grabbed the lions share of that as well since 1990s. The experience of majority who worked with these Indians is that about half of them were indeed qualified and did good work while the other half were useless and only had the job because they were Indians. There is also recognition and discussion how H1b has been abused for a long time to displace US workers, including green card holders and replace them with cheaper Indian.

This preference for Indians and unfair advantages they have enjoyed for IT jobs and H1b needs to end. Same with the downward pressure on IT wages by H1b holders.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Meengla sb

Very well written as usual, sir. Succeeding as a nation/ society comes as an outcome of some rather boring activities, no?

Investing in healthcare, education, sanitation and skill development of its people.
Investing in physical infrastructure
Establishing rule of law, continuity of policy

Regards

 

[Distant_Observer]

The plan to limit h1b visas to India to 25k a year is a good one. Also ban them from bringing their families and a put a 15 year limit on becoming a citizen. They should do the same in Britain.

They need to invite people from a number of countries instead of just a mass influx from India.

 

[Sam6536]

The discussion is why Indians and Indians only formed 99% of the supply of IT professionals for last 30 years when there are many nationalities around the world able to do same job. The primary vehicle for this was the H1b visa and Indians grabbed the lions share of that as well since 1990s. The experience of majority who worked with these Indians is that about half of them were indeed qualified and did good work while the other half were useless and only had the job because they were Indians. There is also recognition and discussion how H1b has been abused for a long time to displace US workers, including green card holders and replace them with cheaper Indian workers.

This preference for Indians and unfair advantages they have enjoyed for IT jobs and H1b needs to end.

Isn't that for the US to decide. Let them modify their Bilateral treaties with us then. Indians dominate the IT scene due to our focus on services as a national policy.

It's not about you have X number of nationalities to do Y job. You need to consider bilateral relations, integration of said community, work ethics etc.

It's not that Americans can't do the same job as a random Indian, it's just that an Indian can do the same job at the same quality for less money.

I'll give you an example from India, now there's a very populous but poor state called Bihar in India. It's people migrate to other states and dominate the blue and white collar jobs. The argument is if a Maharashtrian native will charge 100 for the same job but a Bihari will do the same for 50.

It's how capitalism works.

 

[Watandar]

Honestly, having spent some time in Pakistan in last some weeks and having spent hours with Indian travelers on flights to/from Pakistan, I have no hesitation in saying that Pakistanis are not only better looking ones but also don't stink as much and are more polite in social interactions. I know what some might say a 'small sample' but I think I am a very observant person--and a very curious one too: In just 3-4 hours on the transit at the Miami Airport last night, I had already struck several interesting conversations with total strangers at a bar near the departure gate. It is an insatiable curious nature.

But, yes, I do firmly believe Pakistanis are in general different from Indians which the larger world doesn't seem to realize except by avid travelers. Oh, while my 'immigration' last night at the Miami Airport lasted only about 30 seconds, the white dude, perhaps trying to trick me, asked the first question 'how was your trip to India?'. I said, 'No, I am coming from Pakistan via Qatar'. Haha!

Cmon bro, Pakistan has never made the type of investments India made in education or supporting an industry like IT services. Pakistani work ethnic also isnt something to write home about. I am hoping for H1b changes to remove the abusive practices like replacing domestic workers and downward pressure in wages, as well as fewer Indians and more nationalities, but those alternative nationalities are not going to be Pakistanis.

idiotic education policies in Pakistan means there is huge glut of doctors and engineers and shortages in other white collar professions like nursing or IT and blue collar professionals.

 

[Meengla]

I don't know what the whole discussion is about. If america wants to wean off Indian IT India will take its business elsewhere, domestic demand is growing and surplus commodity is always in demand in the market. It's not simple as Ctrl C and Ctrl V for America.

Your post was overall good except for the bravado about Indians taking their 'business' elsewhere: No, you won't because you can't. The global pot of $$ is big only in America and its Anglos/European/GCC allies to the point of big rewards. The rest, even the Chinese, are oversaturated with limited 'returns' and chances to make the big bucks.
You have no chance to take your 'business elsewhere' because the 'business' is in America and its allies. And perhaps that's why despite Trump's repeated insults to India in last several months, your leadership is (wisely) biding its time--they know about the bread and the butter situation quite well.

 

[Sam6536]

Ch

The discussion is why Indians and Indians only formed 99% of the supply of IT professionals for last 30 years when there are many nationalities around the world able to do same job. The primary vehicle for this was the H1b visa and Indians grabbed the lions share of that as well since 1990s. The experience of majority who worked with these Indians is that about half of them were indeed qualified and did good work while the other half were useless and only had the job because they were Indians. There is also recognition and discussion how H1b has been abused for a long time to displace US workers, including green card holders and replace them with cheaper Indian.

This preference for Indians and unfair advantages they have enjoyed for IT jobs and H1b needs to end. Same with the downward pressure on IT wages by H1b holders.

China is China due to the prevalent Geopolitics at the time. Now America wants to diversify but it's stuck. They would need to pay substantially more for the same good if they buy it from anywhere else.

China went for manufacturing we went for IT/Services.

 

[Watandar]

Isn't that for the US to decide. Let them modify their Bilateral treaties with us then. Indians dominate the IT scene due to our focus on services as a national policy.

It's not about you have X number of nationalities to do Y job. You need to consider bilateral relations, integration of said community, work ethics etc.

It's not that Americans can't do the same job as a random Indian, it's just that an Indian can do the same job at the same quality for less money.

I'll give you an example from India, now there's a very populous but poor state called Bihar in India. It's people migrate to other states and dominate the blue and white collar jobs. The argument is if a Maharashtrian native will charge 100 for the same job but a Bihari will do the same for 50.

It's how capitalism works.

The H1b was never meant to import cheaper workers, it was meant to address shortages in industries and the assumption was that genuine shortages would naturally mean higher wages in those industries for all.

Instead the H1B and similar visas were severely abused to bring in cheaper foreigners, mostly Indians on fake shortages while Americans like Black or Latinos or poorer whites were ignored. It's why IT, engineering and medicine in America is thoroughly comprised of educated whites and Asian people only. This importing of cheaper foreigners also had downward pressure on wages.

You are right its unrestrained capitalism but that's not something that benefits a country or its citizens, just the capitalists and select constituencies, in this case Indians. This is what people are seeking to change.

 

[Meengla]

Cmon bro, Pakistan has never made the type of investments India made in education or supporting an industry like IT services. Pakistani work ethnic also isnt something to write home about. I am hoping for H1b changes to remove the abusive practices like replacing domestic workers and downward pressure in wages, as well as fewer Indians and more nationalities, but those alternative nationalities are not going to be Pakistanis.

idiotic education policies in Pakistan means there is huge glut of doctors and engineers and shortages in other white collar professions like nursing or IT and blue collar professionals.

I don't think in my qouted post, I belittled India's right policies. I give credit where its due! Only by recogizing one's own weaknesses can one go to the next stage.