HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[Archie]

If Kaveri comes up to the task of producing the required power than that would be just a start. Rated thrust is just the starting point. There are many other aspects that come in after that.

Some of these are robustness, efficiency, survivability, lifespan etc and host of other technologies that come into a proven engine and unlikely to be available in a first generation engine that Kaveri would be when it produces the rated thrust.

India shouldn’t give it up and continue to work since there is no shortcut to success. Probably, the Indian effort to negotiate with Safran and GE for tech transfer, is to lay hands on these very aspects to hasten the process and get into the big league.

Yup
Engine reliability and ease of Maintenence is top priority

Specially incase of single engine aircraft

If India hopes to field between 324-400 Tejas ie 16-20 sqds , then it needs a reliable engine which it can maintain using domestic industry.

GE is already blackmailing us by saying they can only provide 20 engines a year to HAL For Tejas program .
This will indirectly impact the export prospect of Tejas MK1A
With IAFs 180 jet order taking 9 years to fulfill at current rate of production

 

[vkdindian]

Even if Kaveri comes up with the rated thrust, it wouldn’t be that easy a task to put it in Tejas.

Replacing an engine is likely to be the most complex of the changes possible on a fighter.
Especially when the makers are different and the replacement is not a purpose built engine for the job. Biggest difficulty is likely to be the size and various engine controls. An airframe designed around an engine just can’t take a new engine. The task may be achievable but prohibitely expensive and time consuming to make it untenable.

Kaveri development would work for all future fighter developments but unlikely for Tejas MK IA.

 

[Justin TruDont]

Even if Kaveri comes up with the rated thrust, it wouldn’t be that easy a task to put it in Tejas.

Replacing an engine is likely to be the most complex of the changes possible on a fighter.
Especially when the makers are different and the replacement is not a purpose built engine for the job. Biggest difficulty is likely to be the size and various engine controls. An airframe designed around an engine just can’t take a new engine. The task may be achievable but prohibitely expensive and time consuming to make it untenable.

Kaveri development would work for all future fighter developments but unlikely for Tejas MK IA.

What happens, if in sometime in 2030s we have an American President who is not Pro India
What happens if someone like Ilhan Omar becomes the President .

If US refuses to provide spares for F404 / F414 engines

Then that could ground 50% of Indian Fighter force.

That's where Kaveri comes in.
we need to hedge our bets.

We only operate 28 Apaches, 15 Chinooks , 12 C130J and 11 C17s
But we will be operating anywhere from 324 to 400 Tejas fighters

If these jets grounded in late 2030s due to sanctions , then we loose half our fighter fleet

Today we have Tejas in 2 Sqds,
When we have them in 20 sqds , we will find it difficult to go against American interests
Like buying Cheap oil from Russia and Iran.

 

[vkdindian]

What happens, if in sometime in 2030s we have an American President who is not Pro India
What happens if someone like Ilhan Omar becomes the President .

These situations aside it wouldn’t be simple or even moderately difficult task. But insanely difficult one and national fervour may not be able to help in that.

The Kaveri program definitely has huge requirements and should be treated like a national programme on a mission mode.

 

[DDG-80]

HAL, NAL sign tech transfer pact for Tejas engine day door production

With the signing of the technology transfer for Bismaleimide (BMI) Engine Bay Door (EBD), HAL can directly produce these high-temperature resistant composite parts for the series production of LCA Mk1A aircraft meeting the initial requirement of IAF squadrons, a joint statement said.

www.moneycontrol.com

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

What happens, if in sometime in 2030s we have an American President who is not Pro India
What happens if someone like Ilhan Omar becomes the President .

If US refuses to provide spares for F404 / F414 engines

Then that could ground 50% of Indian Fighter force.

That's where Kaveri comes in.
we need to hedge our bets.

We only operate 28 Apaches, 15 Chinooks , 12 C130J and 11 C17s
But we will be operating anywhere from 324 to 400 Tejas fighters

If these jets grounded in late 2030s due to sanctions , then we loose half our fighter fleet

Today we have Tejas in 2 Sqds,
When we have them in 20 sqds , we will find it difficult to go against American interests
Like buying Cheap oil from Russia and Iran.

Add P-8I also to your list

 

[MirageBlue]

That was essentially the underlying reason for creating HOTAS, you are correct, sir. I don't think there is any manufacturer that's not building their jets without it. Just seeing if you fellas are paying attention. (Kidding) And I don't think there is any need to reach for the displays during high G maneuvers, just the essential controls.

The true benefit is comfort, especially at high-G maneuvers where the pilot is already struggling -- to a certain degree -- to keep all the blood from rushing to his head. If his arm is across his body it seems that would be even more straining to deal with Gs than if it was comfortably to his side, like his left hand on the throttle.

It really surprises me the Russians haven't adopted that on a single one of their relatively newer aircraft, at least the ones post F-16/Su-27. Not the Su-57 or even the recent Su75 prototype. Actually, I take that back. I believe they did it on the early Su-33 or 37 I believe. When Victor Pugachev first performed the Cobra maneuver I think it was in an Su-37. I distinctly remember the in-cockpit video showing him super relaxed & comfy, both arms on the sides while he's doing loops, barrel rolls, minimum radius turns and the Cobra.

I believe this is him doing the promotion flight video for the Su-37. From minute 1:04 to the end is exactly what I'm talking about. He's piloting that thing from his living room recliner. You can clearly see both arms to the side and how comfortable that is compared to a pilot doing the same maneuvers with a center stick. Not sure why they didn't 'stick' with it (no pun intended).

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I believe all fighter seats are reclined a bit, somewhere around 13-15 degrees IIRC. The difference is the F-16 is at 30 degrees if I'm not mistaken.



Good to know. Are Indian pilots using the TopSight helmet? This is something I believe the EAF is interested in.

View attachment 35686

Ergonomics has never been the Russians' strong point. I am indeed surprised that after having used the sidestick on the Su-37 Terminator prototype (as the video you attached showed), why they went back to center stick on even the Su-57.

As for HMDS, TopSight is used by some pilots (MiG-29UPG, MiG-29K, etc.) whereas Elbit DASH is used by Tejas Mk1 and Mk1A pilots.

 

[vkdindian]

Americans imposing a ban is a scenario and any smart person would always be prepared for the worst. Doesn’t mean that it is going to happen. The reason is China factor.

Any sanctions against India would help China directly gaining an edge in the region and that is something that US wouldn’t like to happen.

India has been smart in not putting all the eggs in one basket like Paksiatn.

India has ensured that all our weapon systems are procured from multiple sources and with the latest push on indigenisation, that would be further taken care of.

Engine tech remains the last bastion of tech capability and India should use all means to master it. Buy, borrow, develop to come up to speed.

Government knows this very well and that’s why negotiations with multiple nations are on, to do the same.

 

[JaneBhiDoYaaron]

Even if Kaveri comes up with the rated thrust, it wouldn’t be that easy a task to put it in Tejas.

Replacing an engine is likely to be the most complex of the changes possible on a fighter.
Especially when the makers are different and the replacement is not a purpose built engine for the job. Biggest difficulty is likely to be the size and various engine controls. An airframe designed around an engine just can’t take a new engine. The task may be achievable but prohibitely expensive and time consuming to make it untenable.

Kaveri development would work for all future fighter developments but unlikely for Tejas MK IA.

Correct, Uuless this is something they have been trying as a side project in background.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

To counter a single F16 Block 70 in the air, two Tejas MK1A would be required, as F16 Viper can carry 6 BVR missiles, whereas Tejas can only carry 4.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

@suryakiran why did you laugh is it not true ?

 

[suryakiran]

@suryakiran why did you laugh is it not true ?

going by your logic, one would need 2 F-16 to counter 1 Su-30 MKI. There are 270 MKI, so you need 540 F-16 70s to counter just the Su-30.

Not my logic of course. Enjoy. I am only obersver on this forum. Feel free to ignore me.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

going by your logic, one would need 2 F-16 to counter 1 Su-30 MKI. There are 270 MKI, so you need 540 F-16 70s to counter just the Su-30.

Not my logic of course. Enjoy. I am only obersver on this forum. Feel free to ignore me.

But, Su30MKIs don't have AESA Radar and modern avionics. Among the IAF's current fleet, Tejas is the only fighter jet equipped with AESA radar and advanced avionics, aside from Rafales. While the Su-30MKI will be upgraded to include AESA radar, a jet originally outfitted with modern avionics differs significantly in capabilities from one that has been retrofitted.

 

[DDG-80]

But, Su30MKIs don't have AESA Radar and modern avionics. Among the IAF's current fleet, Tejas is the only fighter jet equipped with AESA radar and advanced avionics, aside from Rafales. While the Su-30MKI will be upgraded to include AESA radar, a jet originally outfitted with modern avionics differs significantly in capabilities from one that has been retrofitted.

Post in thread 'HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions' https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/hal-lca-tejas-updates-news-discussions.164/post-168119
Post in thread 'HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions' https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/hal-lca-tejas-updates-news-discussions.164/post-168123

 

[kaku]

going by your logic, one would need 2 F-16 to counter 1 Su-30 MKI. There are 270 MKI, so you need 540 F-16 70s to counter just the Su-30.

Not my logic of course. Enjoy. I am only obersver on this forum. Feel free to ignore me.

Looks like you are just a lurker here.

Good to know, you are here too.