HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

Then they can simply wait until the end of days since NO-ONE will provide full ToT, NO-ONE will build a manufacturing site to build this type „in India“ (and surely without holding control of the manufacturing process while at the same time still being responsible for the manufacturing quality like last time demanded!) … forget it!

To express it in a maybe a bit rude way: All Western fighter manufactures know, they have India on the balls, India has nothing to demand and barely any other options and even more so they can play the different parties perfectly against each other to archived their results.

No no, dont shatter the illusion, any Indian deal will bring FULL ToT, and full rights to all R&D that Dassault may develop for the next 50 years, as well as FULL French poltical backing for eternity. These 26 Rafales presents France's last ever hope of having an aviation industry.
 
Then they can simply wait until the end of days since NO-ONE will provide full ToT, NO-ONE will build a manufacturing site to build this type „in India“ (and surely without holding control of the manufacturing process while at the same time still being responsible for the manufacturing quality like last time demanded!) … forget it!

To express it in a maybe a bit rude way: All Western fighter manufactures know, they have India on the balls, India has nothing to demand and barely any other options and even more so they can play the different parties perfectly against each other to archived their results.

Seriously, you think no one will build an assembly line to build 114 MRFA in India?

Till not even a few years ago Lockheed Martin was proposing to transfer the entire Fort Worth assembly line to India to produce F-16s. Nothing came out of it and they shifted it to Greenville, SC.

In case you didn't know, it was done in the past as well. For e.g. with the Jaguar. Assembly line at HAL was building Jaguars from the 1980s till as late as 2008, when the last of an additional order for 37 Jaguars (20 single seat and 17 dual seat) was placed by the IAF.

2008 was the year when the last one rolled off the HAL assembly line. By then it was retired from the French AF and I believe even the RAF was about to retire it.

The reason I point this out is because the HAL built Jaguars were done with almost no support except for a few parts, from BAe. DARIN, DARIN 2 and DARIN 3 upgrades were all done by HAL on their own, with minimal to no BAe involvement. Only because ToT was done with the setting up of the Jaguar assembly line.

And no, no Western manufacturer has India by the proverbial balls. There is a very likely scenario that there will be simply no MRFA at all. HAL may be asked to build another 2-3 squadrons of Su-30MKI to the Super Sukhoi standard and that may well be it till the Tejas Mk2 enters service.

There is, simply put, no manufacturer who would be as arrogant or blithe as you're sounding, when it comes to what may well be a USD 20 billion contract, if it ever gets signed.

This time around the partner choice will be left to the OEM. So then it's going to be the OEM's responsibility to deliver, along with their chosen partner. There is not going to be any mandate to go with HAL, unlike during MRCA.
 
Seriously, you think no one will build an assembly line to build 114 MRFA in India?

Till not even a few years ago Lockheed Martin was proposing to transfer the entire Fort Worth assembly line to India to produce F-16s. Nothing came out of it and they shifted it to Greenville, SC.

In case you didn't know, it was done in the past as well. For e.g. with the Jaguar. Assembly line at HAL was building Jaguars from the 1980s till as late as 2008, when the last of an additional order for 37 Jaguars (20 single seat and 17 dual seat) was placed by the IAF.

2008 was the year when the last one rolled off the HAL assembly line. By then it was retired from the French AF and I believe even the RAF was about to retire it.

The reason I point this out is because the HAL built Jaguars were done with almost no support except for a few parts, from BAe. DARIN, DARIN 2 and DARIN 3 upgrades were all done by HAL on their own, with minimal to no BAe involvement. Only because ToT was done with the setting up of the Jaguar assembly line.

And no, no Western manufacturer has India by the proverbial balls. There is a very likely scenario that there will be simply no MRFA at all. HAL may be asked to build another 2-3 squadrons of Su-30MKI to the Super Sukhoi standard and that may well be it till the Tejas Mk2 enters service.

There is, simply put, no manufacturer who would be as arrogant or blithe as you're sounding, when it comes to what may well be a USD 20 billion contract, if it ever gets signed.

This time around the partner choice will be left to the OEM. So then it's going to be the OEM's responsibility to deliver, along with their chosen partner. There is not going to be any mandate to go with HAL, unlike during MRCA.

MRFA will be manufactured in India ,.we know that already

But it has been delayed for 2 reasons

1. Linkage to Engine deal ie Technology for 110 KN engine

2 Now we have this new situation of GAN.Radars

US planes ie F 18 and F 16 are sanction prone

We have only ONE Choice ie Rafale

Or else we.keep making Su 30 till AMCA gets ready
 
MRFA will be manufactured in India ,.we know that already

But it has been delayed for 2 reasons

1. Linkage to Engine deal ie Technology for 110 KN engine

2 Now we have this new situation of GAN.Radars

US planes ie F 18 and F 16 are sanction prone

We have only ONE Choice ie Rafale

Or else we.keep making Su 30 till AMCA gets ready

The truly sensible option was to go in for 48-54 more Rafales off the shelf in a G2G deal and after that just focus on Tejas Mk2 and AMCA.

But the IAF wants a model similar to the Jaguar or Su-30MKI license manufacturing, whereby a lot of the future upgrades can be done in India at our own costs, without necessarily being held hostage to exorbitant costs for OEM upgrades.
 
The truly sensible option was to go in for 48-54 more Rafales off the shelf in a G2G deal and after that just focus on Tejas Mk2 and AMCA.

But the IAF wants a model similar to the Jaguar or Su-30MKI license manufacturing, whereby a lot of the future upgrades can be done in India at our own costs, without necessarily being held hostage to exorbitant costs for OEM upgrades.

We cannot ignore the Costs of upgrades

However the Engine Technology issue is still an open ended question

Now in the short term all our hopes are on Su 30 upgrades and Tejas MK 1A
 
Seriously, you think no one will build an assembly line to build 114 MRFA in India?

Till not even a few years ago Lockheed Martin was proposing to transfer the entire Fort Worth assembly line to India to produce F-16s. Nothing came out of it and they shifted it to Greenville, SC.

In case you didn't know, it was done in the past as well. For e.g. with the Jaguar. Assembly line at HAL was building Jaguars from the 1980s till as late as 2008, when the last of an additional order for 37 Jaguars (20 single seat and 17 dual seat) was placed by the IAF.

2008 was the year when the last one rolled off the HAL assembly line. By then it was retired from the French AF and I believe even the RAF was about to retire it.

The reason I point this out is because the HAL built Jaguars were done with almost no support except for a few parts, from BAe. DARIN, DARIN 2 and DARIN 3 upgrades were all done by HAL on their own, with minimal to no BAe involvement. Only because ToT was done with the setting up of the Jaguar assembly line.

And no, no Western manufacturer has India by the proverbial balls. There is a very likely scenario that there will be simply no MRFA at all. HAL may be asked to build another 2-3 squadrons of Su-30MKI to the Super Sukhoi standard and that may well be it till the Tejas Mk2 enters service.

There is, simply put, no manufacturer who would be as arrogant or blithe as you're sounding, when it comes to what may well be a USD 20 billion contract, if it ever gets signed.

This time around the partner choice will be left to the OEM. So then it's going to be the OEM's responsibility to deliver, along with their chosen partner. There is not going to be any mandate to go with HAL, unlike during MRCA.


The point is, that all makes no sense! In Germany we have a saying: Ihr tanzt auf zu vielen Hochzeiten gleichzeitig! und macht damit im Sinne alles, aber nichts richtig!

roughly translated as: You are dancing on too many weddings aka you are trying to do too many things at once! And in doing so, you are doing everything but nothing right!

The point is just to again roughly summarise: The IAF has NOW a dramatic shortage in fighters, already NOW a downfall in Squadrons and this situation will even more dramatically increase in the upcoming years!

Therefore the IAF/India has the intention to order or already ordered and the following projects in the making:

- Tejas Mk.1A .... but issues with a too limited production capacity and the engine issue!
- Tejas Mk.2 ... again delayed until at best 2026 for roll-out ... so when will it be ready for service?
- Rafale / maybe 2nd Batch / for IN: ... negotiations on negotiations but again a discussion on wet-dreams about indigenous radar, indigenous weapons, maybe even indigenous engine in XX years and local production!?
- MRFA: still not decided on a type since again too much discussion on the same wet-dreams like the Rafale deal
- Su-30MKI-PLUS: ... now you are talking about engines and indigenous systems and no replacement in sight!
- AMCA: until today more a dream for in about a decade at best if ever!

- everything else is vaporware

So, even if you decide on a MRMF type today, when will it be ready? When will a proposed factory in India be ready ... in summary TOO LATE!
Even if you decide on additional Rafales today, when will it be ready? ... Dassault has an order backlog for years and IF, when will a proposed factory in India be ready ... in summary even more TOO LATE!

And then there are still stupid jokes, "but the PLAN will surely have its own J-35 not ready within the next three years!

In three years, you maybe haven't even still made a decision on a type ... in three years, surely no factory is ready ! So when do you think to get these then even older types??

That's what I mean with IT ALL MAKES NO SENSE!
 
The point is, that all makes no sense! In Germany we have a saying: Ihr tanzt auf zu vielen Hochzeiten gleichzeitig! und macht damit im Sinne alles, aber nichts richtig!

roughly translated as: You are dancing on too many weddings aka you are trying to do too many things at once! And in doing so, you are doing everything but nothing right!

The point is just to again roughly summarise: The IAF has NOW a dramatic shortage in fighters, already NOW a downfall in Squadrons and this situation will even more dramatically increase in the upcoming years!

Therefore the IAF/India has the intention to order or already ordered and the following projects in the making:

- Tejas Mk.1A .... but issues with a too limited production capacity and the engine issue!
- Tejas Mk.2 ... again delayed until at best 2026 for roll-out ... so when will it be ready for service?
- Rafale / maybe 2nd Batch / for IN: ... negotiations on negotiations but again a discussion on wet-dreams about indigenous radar, indigenous weapons, maybe even indigenous engine in XX years and local production!?
- MRFA: still not decided on a type since again too much discussion on the same wet-dreams like the Rafale deal
- Su-30MKI-PLUS: ... now you are talking about engines and indigenous systems and no replacement in sight!
- AMCA: until today more a dream for in about a decade at best if ever!

- everything else is vaporware

So, even if you decide on a MRMF type today, when will it be ready? When will a proposed factory in India be ready ... in summary TOO LATE!
Even if you decide on additional Rafales today, when will it be ready? ... Dassault has an order backlog for years and IF, when will a proposed factory in India be ready ... in summary even more TOO LATE!

And then there are still stupid jokes, "but the PLAN will surely have its own J-35 not ready within the next three years!

In three years, you maybe haven't even still made a decision on a type ... in three years, surely no factory is ready ! So when do you think to get these then even older types??

That's what I mean with IT ALL MAKES NO SENSE!
LOL......
Deino began his hysterical rant......
 
LOL......
Deino began his hysterical rant......


In fact's it's not hysterical. Rather it is the desperation of a logical and analytical person in response to all the day-dreams (some in fact are more wet-dreams) by fan-boys.

And when you then start the day with such crap from a surely in no way "VerySmartHindu" (more likely a typical troll), then my replies indeed may sound a bit like a "hysterical rant":

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In fact's it's not hysterical. Rather it is the desperation of a logical and analytical person in response to all the day-dreams (some in fact are more wet-dreams) by fan-boys.

And when you then start the day with such crap from a surely in no way "VerySmartHindu" (more likely a typical troll), then my replies indeed may sound a bit like a "hysterical rant":

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The Chinese often say: “You can never wake a man who pretends to sleep.”
So, that's it. Happy every day.
 
The Chinese often say: “You can never wake a man who pretends to sleep.”
So, that's it. Happy every day.


Yes, in Germany there is a similar saying:

"manche sind einfach zu dumm, um sogar aus dem Bus zu Winken" = "some people are just too stupid to even wave from the bus" or "diesen Jungs was zu erklären ist so sinnvoll, wie ein totes Pferd zu fütter" = "explaining something to these guys is as useful as feeding a dead horse" ... or "der IQ besagter Personen liegt noch unter der aktuellen Außentemperatur" = "the IQ of said people is even lower than the current outside temperature" (currently 14 °C here).
 
The point is, that all makes no sense! In Germany we have a saying: Ihr tanzt auf zu vielen Hochzeiten gleichzeitig! und macht damit im Sinne alles, aber nichts richtig!

roughly translated as: You are dancing on too many weddings aka you are trying to do too many things at once! And in doing so, you are doing everything but nothing right!

The point is just to again roughly summarise: The IAF has NOW a dramatic shortage in fighters, already NOW a downfall in Squadrons and this situation will even more dramatically increase in the upcoming years!

Therefore the IAF/India has the intention to order or already ordered and the following projects in the making:

- Tejas Mk.1A .... but issues with a too limited production capacity and the engine issue!
- Tejas Mk.2 ... again delayed until at best 2026 for roll-out ... so when will it be ready for service?
- Rafale / maybe 2nd Batch / for IN: ... negotiations on negotiations but again a discussion on wet-dreams about indigenous radar, indigenous weapons, maybe even indigenous engine in XX years and local production!?
- MRFA: still not decided on a type since again too much discussion on the same wet-dreams like the Rafale deal
- Su-30MKI-PLUS: ... now you are talking about engines and indigenous systems and no replacement in sight!
- AMCA: until today more a dream for in about a decade at best if ever!

- everything else is vaporware

So, even if you decide on a MRMF type today, when will it be ready? When will a proposed factory in India be ready ... in summary TOO LATE!
Even if you decide on additional Rafales today, when will it be ready? ... Dassault has an order backlog for years and IF, when will a proposed factory in India be ready ... in summary even more TOO LATE!

And then there are still stupid jokes, "but the PLAN will surely have its own J-35 not ready within the next three years!

In three years, you maybe haven't even still made a decision on a type ... in three years, surely no factory is ready ! So when do you think to get these then even older types??

That's what I mean with IT ALL MAKES NO SENSE!

It's real mess if I'm honest ..
The Indians as a collective have royally fucked up the air force modernisation programme

Can't argue with this ..
Imo the options are as follows

Firstly order govt to govt deal for more Rafale fighters whatever we can afford or 36/54 max we don't have funds to go beyond this imo IE 12 billion dollars between 2028/2030

,second Tejas mark1a order to be only the Intial batch of 83 fighters which due to delays for engines will take up to 2030 to complete and cost 6 billion dollars .

Upgrade the mark 1 to mark 1a or as close as possible 2026 2028/

Tejas mark 2 start Induction 2032/2038 only 120 fighters we have deal for GE 414 engines to be built in India already 10. Billion dollars

That gives India
80/90 Rafales
240Tejas 1/2
260 su30mki half upgraded by 2038

It's only 580 planes or only 29/30 squadrons but I can't see anything else happening

Imo Amca is the key everything has to go Into Amca to get mark 1 into service by 20380/2040 ,IE 40, planes by 2040

I would not do the 114 MRFA deal too much cost and time needed
And would curtail the Tejas deck d 97 batch orders ...its too late to induct more Tejas mark 1a
 
No no, dont shatter the illusion, any Indian deal will bring FULL ToT, and full rights to all R&D that Dassault may develop for the next 50 years, as well as FULL French poltical backing for eternity. These 26 Rafales presents France's last ever hope of having an aviation industry.

I think if a nation commits to a 20 billion dollar deal for 114 Rafales and more upto 180 fighters if you include marine rafales and existing air force versions asking for

Transfer of technology to overhaul maintain and upgrade these huge numbers of fighters at home is realistic request ...If India is ready to invest in 180 Rafales this deserves some kick back Into India aerospace
If India relies on France only to maintain upgrade overhaul this massive 180 fleet of fighters it's too big a risk for India

Look.at su30,Mki totally indengious service and overhaul in India

MRFA has To be the same or we stick to painful.slow step by step Tejas and Amca only
 
The point is, that all makes no sense! In Germany we have a saying: Ihr tanzt auf zu vielen Hochzeiten gleichzeitig! und macht damit im Sinne alles, aber nichts richtig!

roughly translated as: You are dancing on too many weddings aka you are trying to do too many things at once! And in doing so, you are doing everything but nothing right!

The point is just to again roughly summarise: The IAF has NOW a dramatic shortage in fighters, already NOW a downfall in Squadrons and this situation will even more dramatically increase in the upcoming years!

Therefore the IAF/India has the intention to order or already ordered and the following projects in the making:

- Tejas Mk.1A .... but issues with a too limited production capacity and the engine issue!
- Tejas Mk.2 ... again delayed until at best 2026 for roll-out ... so when will it be ready for service?
- Rafale / maybe 2nd Batch / for IN: ... negotiations on negotiations but again a discussion on wet-dreams about indigenous radar, indigenous weapons, maybe even indigenous engine in XX years and local production!?
- MRFA: still not decided on a type since again too much discussion on the same wet-dreams like the Rafale deal
- Su-30MKI-PLUS: ... now you are talking about engines and indigenous systems and no replacement in sight!
- AMCA: until today more a dream for in about a decade at best if ever!

- everything else is vaporware

So, even if you decide on a MRMF type today, when will it be ready? When will a proposed factory in India be ready ... in summary TOO LATE!
Even if you decide on additional Rafales today, when will it be ready? ... Dassault has an order backlog for years and IF, when will a proposed factory in India be ready ... in summary even more TOO LATE!

And then there are still stupid jokes, "but the PLAN will surely have its own J-35 not ready within the next three years!

In three years, you maybe haven't even still made a decision on a type ... in three years, surely no factory is ready ! So when do you think to get these then even older types??

That's what I mean with IT ALL MAKES NO SENSE!

If you are worried about Squadron Strength of IAF , then I will tell you what a Friend of Mine from the Defence Establishment said

Indian Military is like a ICEBERG

A lot of our Capabilities are hidden and not declared

Because if we were really so weak , then China and Pakistan would not be observing Reatraint , they would have easily defeated us
 
If you are worried about Squadron Strength of IAF , then I will tell you what a Friend of Mine from the Defence Establishment said

Indian Military is like a ICEBERG

A lot of our Capabilities are hidden and not declared

Because if we were really so weak , then China and Pakistan would not be observing Reatraint , they would have easily defeated us


Total BS ... no-one and especially not China is interested in conquering or to defeat India! There is no need and no interest. This is all a completely inflated self-image, as if India would be important or interesting to others (aka here China)!
Yes, China annoys, provokes and keeps you busy, but there is de facto no interest in Indian land ... and all the border skirmishes are just an accessory.

Or do you really think there are somewhere hidden at secret bases several much more advanced fighter squadrons already ready for action?
 
Total BS ... no-one and especially not China is interested in conquering or to defeat India! There is no need and no interest. This is all a completely inflated self-image, as if India would be important or interesting to others (aka here China)!
Yes, China annoys, provokes and keeps you busy, but there is de facto no interest in Indian land ... and all the border skirmishes are just an accessory.

Or do you really think there are somewhere hidden at secret bases several much more advanced fighter squadrons already ready for action?

That's not true at all ...
Both china and Pakistan have real genuine desire and interest in keeping India at bay .and desire to steal strategic land by claiming historic rights
Be it parts of ladakh or Kashmir

Your comments no one has interests is just rubbish
Did 800 Pak soldiers die in vain in kargil
No there is huge interest in both Pakistan and china to see India growth economicallu and strategically curtailed because china wants to dominate Asia in all areas and Pakistan does not want to be bullied by a India it sees as a hegomonic bully in south Asia

You challenge India in Kashmir
China challenges in Indian ocean and the himlayers borders

But India will.not be curtailed now
 

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