ICJ ruling on SA's case against Israel

[Mobius]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Hassan Al-Somal]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Antonius123]

Obviously ICJ doesn't want to release verdict that Israel has been doing genocide, they just want to prevent Israel from doing so.

 

[r3alist]

Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, in relation to Palestinians in Gaza, take all
measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of this
Convention, in particular:
(a) killing members of the group;(b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;(c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physicaldestruction in whole or in part; and(d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

Read the second one, that is saying cease fire without saying it

 

[VCheng]

Read the second one, that is saying cease fire without saying it

I have read and linked the entire PDF. You are interpreting what was not said as saying something.

 

[Musings]

Obviously ICJ doesn't want to release verdict that Israel has been doing genocide, they just want to prevent Israel from doing so.

In the last 48 hours - western sources, that you probably find reliable - have been citing video footage of innocent Palestinians waving white flags being shot dead - people waiting for bread at a refugee camp murdered and a line of Israeli not allowing water and food to Palestinians. Would you define any of these as war crimes and genocide? Is Israel being prevented from doing such crimes? Do South Africa have some merit bringing this case or do you believe it’s not applicable?

 

[r3alist]

I have read and linked the entire PDF. You are interpreting what was not said as saying something.

Please do better, as below. It equates to a ceasefire in reality, or vastly reduced operations.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[VCheng]

Please do better, as below. It equates to a ceasefire in reality, or vastly reduced operations.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

In reality? That remains to be seen.

 

[r3alist]

In reality? That remains to be seen.

Seperate question, seperate issue.

The icj wording is unambiguous with respect to no further harm caused to Gazans. This is the broader purpose of the initial case.

Again vheng, it's important to take in all of the data and facts, not to jump to conclusions.

 

[r3alist]

The most important part in all of this, I might suggest, is the initial submission and it's documentation.


Who has read it?

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

 

[VCheng]

Seperate question, seperate issue.

The icj wording is unambiguous with respect to no further harm caused to Gazans. This is the broader purpose of the initial case.

Again vheng, it's important to take in all of the data and facts, not to jump to conclusions.

Exactly. What the ICJ said is what it said. Jumping to any conclusions as to how it is to be interpreted is not correct.

 

[r3alist]

Exactly. What the ICJ said is what it said. Jumping to any conclusions as to how it is to be interpreted is not correct.

The interpretation is also clear, it comes from the words, obviously.

What you mean to allude to is the execution and enforcement, that is something no one has realistic hopes for no point dwelling on that.


The importance of this case is the pressure it adds, cumulative awareness as well as the documentation of Israeli acts and the symbolism of Israel being on the dock.

In that respect South Africa can claim an important INITIAL victory given the power dynamics of the world.

 

[VCheng]

The interpretation is also clear, it comes from the words, obviously.

What you mean to allude to is the execution and enforcement, that is something no one has realistic hopes for no point dwelling on that.


The importance of this case is the pressure it adds, cumulative awareness as well as the documentation of Israeli acts and the symbolism of Israel being on the dock.

In that respect South Africa can claim an important INITIAL victory given the power dynamics of the world.

You can interpret it as you wish.

So will I. Real developments will be what they will be. I can’t make such premature statements.

 

[Developereo]

The important factor here is who has the responsibility to enforce the ICJ verdict. If enforcement can be vetoed by the UNSC then the ICJ would be mindful of that reality and issue a verdict that would have a reasonable chance of being enforced.

 

[r3alist]

You can interpret it as you wish.

So will I. Real developments will be what they will be. I can’t make such premature statements.

There is a whole other thread about on the ground reality, the actual topic is this case.