India - China History and Relations

[Michael]

Imagine if China and India had better relations? Imagine the power block and complete shift of Geo strategy and politics. The economic growth and cooperation would send tsunami waves through the world......

That's what I'm really about!
In reality, I am a commercial designer. I mainly work for some Chinese private investors on their commercial investment projects. They mainly do some medium-sized (RMB 10 million~1 billion) investment projects around the world.

As we know, the time to build a star hotel, the time to finish it in China and the time to finish it in Africa are not an order of magnitude at all. For investors, this time difference means a lot of money loss. And my task is to help them to reduce this time difference.

This is just one example. All of this must be based on a lot of local research and analysis.

Safe areas mean very stiff competition. Risky areas mean better opportunities. India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, these are the regions I've been studying lately ..............

 

[r3alist]

Imagine if China and India had better relations? Imagine the power block and complete shift of Geo strategy and politics. The economic growth and cooperation would send tsunami waves through the world......

In memory of an esteemed member...blood, soil, religion

India is a swing state right now, arguably the most important one, that means it has to make a choice

Would you imagine bold or brave moves?

 

[Beijingwalker]

The question is simple:
Which countries are considered as China's friends ?

I will answer the question for you
Pakistan
North Korea
Myanmar

You seem to be ashamed of the company you keep

LOL, Can you define what is a friend? China is a trading country , not a warlike maniac, cares more about good trading partners.

 

[Paitoo]

That's what I'm really about!
In reality, I am a commercial designer. I mainly work for some Chinese private investors on their commercial investment projects. They mainly do some medium-sized (RMB 10 million~1 billion) investment projects around the world.

As we know, the time to build a star hotel, the time to finish it in China and the time to finish it in Africa are not an order of magnitude at all. For investors, this time difference means a lot of money loss. And my task is to help them to reduce this time difference.

This is just one example. All of this must be based on a lot of local research and analysis.

Safe areas mean very stiff competition. Risky areas mean better opportunities. India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, these are the regions I've been studying lately ..............

India can actually benefit a lot from Chinese expertise in construction. But India is a combination of a crony capitalist economy at core reporting to a populist administration. When this happens, projects either become too expensive to execute and maintain, or are shoddily completed to meet a cost target. There are companies, both Indian and foreign, that have found a middle path after great toil, and are loathe to concede ground to new players. The Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese, Europeans and Americans are too well entrenched with their local partners and fellow Indian competitors. The Chinese, as late entrants will find it very difficult to break this nexus. In the automobile sector things looked promising with the entry of MG Motors, but they had to eventually sell controlling stake to an Indian company. BYD seems to be on the right track. Let's see how it goes.

There is also the thorny issue of CPEC which passes through what India claims as its own territory. Notwithstanding the fact that no sensible Indian has hopes of acquiring that piece of land, it is politically an incendiary subject, and no Indian govt, of any flavour can be seen as accepting Chinese activity in that area. Thus, on paper a hostile approach is inevitable from the Indian side.

 

[Michael]

India can actually benefit a lot from Chinese expertise in construction. But India is a combination of a crony capitalist economy at core reporting to a populist administration. When this happens, projects either become too expensive to execute and maintain, or are shoddily completed to meet a cost target. There are companies, both Indian and foreign, that have found a middle path after great toil, and are loathe to concede ground to new players. The Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese, Europeans and Americans are too well entrenched with their local partners and fellow Indian competitors. The Chinese, as late entrants will find it very difficult to break this nexus. In the automobile sector things looked promising with the entry of MG Motors, but they had to eventually sell controlling stake to an Indian company. BYD seems to be on the right track. Let's see how it goes.

There is also the thorny issue of CPEC which passes through what India claims as its own territory. Notwithstanding the fact that no sensible Indian has hopes of acquiring that piece of land, it is politically an incendiary subject, and no Indian govt, of any flavour can be seen as accepting Chinese activity in that area. Thus, on paper a hostile approach is inevitable from the Indian side.

China is now releasing some of its labour-intensive industries (including the traditional construction sector) and transferring them to other friendly countries. Some industries have already shifted to South East Asian countries. Some of the recent co-operation between China and African countries is also for this purpose.

But the business environment in India ............... is particularly targeted at Chinese companies.

Many Chinese investors prefer other countries to India. Although India has a larger market and investing in India may have greater returns, the Indian market is too politically risky for Chinese companies.

 

[nahtanbob]

You seem to be selective with your self appointed answer. You neglect to mention Iran Russia Thailand, Serbia, Belarus, Mexico, Nepal, Chile, and most of Africa . Why cherry pick? Why attempt to portray a negative picture? This is without doubt the standard "i hate everything China" view certain indian members have on here.
On the other hand - why does India have crap relations with literally every single neighbour?

How many of these countries do Pakistanis emigrate to ?
North Korea, Myanmar
Iran Russia Thailand, Serbia, Belarus, Mexico, Nepal, Chile, and most of Africa

On the other hand the list of desirable destinations for Pakistanis is a list of American allies and friends

 

[nahtanbob]

I don't know how else to say it but this isn't a playground

China is developing it's sphere of influence, USA and the west is blocking it

Let's revisit the notion in a decade

Let me put it this way - you are the world's 2nd largest economy and you have no friends worth mentioning

Pakistanis keep blowing the horn about their "higher than mountains and deeper than ocean" friend. Yet you have to run to the IMF for a measly $3 billion or $7 billion when iron brother has $3 trillion in the bank

These are the size of largest IMF loans

$50 billion for Argentina

IMF Executive Board Approves US$50 Billion Stand-By Arrangement for Argentina

The Board’s decision allows the authorities to make an immediate purchase of US$15 billion (equivalent to SDR 10,614 billion, or 333 percent of Argentina’s quota). One half of this amount (US$7.5 billion) will be used for budget support. The remaining amount of IMF financial support (US$35...

www.imf.org

$67.5 billion euros to Ireland

IMF Lending Case Study: Ireland

www.imf.org

Enough said on this topic

 

[Beijingwalker]

Let me put it this way - you are the world's 2nd largest economy and you have no friends worth mentioning

Can you term "friends", and who are India's friends?

 

[nahtanbob]

Can you term "friends", and who are India's friends?

I would not know for sure

Friends or allies - look up the definition. Assuming books are not censored in China

But I would list
USA, Russia, Bangladesh (before Hasina), UAE, Saudis (maybe), Israel, France, Japan

I am sure a lot of less significant countries call India friends

 

[Musings]

How many of these countries do Pakistanis emigrate to ?
North Korea, Myanmar
Iran Russia Thailand, Serbia, Belarus, Mexico, Nepal, Chile, and most of Africa

On the other hand the list of desirable destinations for Pakistanis is a list of American allies and friends

Look at the title and look at what you are posting. Park the obsession for once and stop circling round Pakistan.

 

[Beijingwalker]

But I would list
USA, Russia, Bangladesh (before Hasina), UAE, Saudis (maybe), Israel, France, Japan

lOl, they are not your friends, you are just a tool for them to be used, when China was weak, China was also being used by them as a "friend" against USSR, only you can't see it.

 

[nahtanbob]

lOl, they are not your friends, you are just a tool for them to be used, when China was weak, China was also being used by them as a "friend" against USSR, only you can't see it.

who said friends were permanent

 

[r3alist]

Let me put it this way - you are the world's 2nd largest economy and you have no friends worth mentioning

Pakistanis keep blowing the horn about their "higher than mountains and deeper than ocean" friend. Yet you have to run to the IMF for a measly $3 billion or $7 billion when iron brother has $3 trillion in the bank

These are the size of largest IMF loans

$50 billion for Argentina

IMF Executive Board Approves US$50 Billion Stand-By Arrangement for Argentina

The Board’s decision allows the authorities to make an immediate purchase of US$15 billion (equivalent to SDR 10,614 billion, or 333 percent of Argentina’s quota). One half of this amount (US$7.5 billion) will be used for budget support. The remaining amount of IMF financial support (US$35...

www.imf.org

$67.5 billion euros to Ireland

IMF Lending Case Study: Ireland

www.imf.org

Enough said on this topic

If this is an elaborate way to say Pakistan is not worth counting as a useful friend that's fine, I won't argue, though a friend is not your blank cheque, so silly expectations

A friend does help with big bumbzzz lol and military tech

The point I am trying to make is friends are a point in time sort of thing, today's friends are maybe not tomorrows, but then if you are a great power you simply do not care.

You just move to where your interests are

 

[nahtanbob]

If this is an elaborate way to say Pakistan is not worth counting as a useful friend that's fine, I won't argue, though a friend is not your blank cheque, so silly expectations

A friend does help with big bumbzzz lol and military tech

The point I am trying to make is friends are a point in time sort of thing, today's friends are maybe not tomorrows, but then if you are a great power you simply do not care.

You just move to where your interests are

friendships have limits. I am pointing out the limit

 

[nahtanbob]

It only shows how weak you are, being used as a pathetic pawn.

you are accusing India of playing the same game China plays

in any case countries decide what they want to do