India Economy Thread

[onlinpunit]

I think Delhi mumbai will be the most profitable. That route is completely choked and will people will jump if they get somewhat lesser prices in the Shinkasen.

I think Gujarat Mumbai stretch has helped us get process, manufacturing and operations well set up. Once we think we have figured out everything we will build the bigger corridoors.

Yes. Also chennai- bangalore-hyderabad will be immensely convenient.
For 45 min of air travel we need to spend multiple hours for security check in and traffic.

 

[Guynextdoor]

Yes. Also chennai- bangalore-hyderabad will be immensely convenient.
For 45 min of air travel we need to spend multiple hours for security check in and traffic.

yeah but.....Bangaloreans LOVE the Bangalore airport. I think we will use every excuse we get to go there. It's one of the VERY BEST airports in Asia.

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[Raj-Hindustani]

Chinese HSR projects are loss making and are under huge debt, such projects needs economic viability, they are costly.

Only few should be built in India , between major economic hubs.

Across DMIC & between Bangalore, Hyderabad, Chennai, only logical areas.

Yeah I meant the same - connecting to major cities

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Uh. You won't see this situation in your lifetime.

If India can master some high-speed rail manufacturing technology and independently manufacture some high-speed rail facilities and equipment within 10-20 years, then that is entirely possible.

But for high-speed rail to become a common mode of transportation for ordinary Indians within 10-20 years, there is absolutely no possibility of that happening. ------ Your country's political system would absolutely not allow something like this to happen.

China's high-speed rail projects are indeed operating at a loss. That's a fact. Many state-owned public service systems in China are operating at a loss.

For example:
China Post's express delivery and mail services have never been profitable; they are operating at a huge loss. China Post relies on its banking business to offset these losses.
Many lines in China's urban public transportation systems have been operating at a loss for a long time. However, laws prohibit them from shutting down these consistently unprofitable lines.

Many public service systems in China that serve ordinary citizens are subject to government regulations that force them to operate at extremely low prices and prohibit price increases. Furthermore, the law does not allow them to shut down; they must continue operating indefinitely. (The companies operating these projects are all state-owned enterprises.)

As for the underlying logic behind this, I don't think you can understand it.

=================================================

I just checked the relevant data, and the profitability of China's high-speed rail has changed.
Financial reports of China National Railway Group in recent years:
2020: Net loss of 55.5 billion RMB
2021: Net loss of 50.7 billion RMB
2022: Net loss of 69.6 billion RMB
2023: Net profit of 3.3 billion RMB
2024: Net profit of 3.9 billion RMB
First three quarters of 2025: Net profit of 11.72 billion RMB

I’m mainly hoping for better connectivity between major cities. Right now, if I need to travel from Bangalore to Delhi or Mumbai by Indian Railways, it takes almost 24 hours. As an alternative to flights, bullet trains would be a much better option for fast travel. Flights are inconvenient because you have to reach the airport at least two hours early, and airports are usually far outside major cities—meaning you end up spending extra time and money just to get to and from the airport.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Yes. Also chennai- bangalore-hyderabad will be immensely convenient.
For 45 min of air travel we need to spend multiple hours for security check in and traffic.

And further connecting from Hyderabad to to Mumbai via Nagpur

 

[Michael]

I’m mainly hoping for better connectivity between major cities. Right now, if I need to travel from Bangalore to Delhi or Mumbai by Indian Railways, it takes almost 24 hours. As an alternative to flights, bullet trains would be a much better option for fast travel. Flights are inconvenient because you have to reach the airport at least two hours early, and airports are usually far outside major cities—meaning you end up spending extra time and money just to get to and from the airport.

The core reason why high-speed rail projects are prone to losses is that not only are the initial investments extremely high, but the subsequent maintenance costs are also very high.

For India, if it's just about connecting a few major cities, then directly outsourcing the entire project to Japan or France, without investing more funds in research and development and manufacturing of high-speed rail, would be the most economically efficient option.

However, the Modi government has consistently advocated "Made in India." If India seeks complete self-reliance in high-speed rail technology, this plan will be completely beyond India's capacity and will inevitably fail.

If there are only a few lines, the operating costs will be so high that ordinary Indians will find them unaffordable. It's certain that the fares will far exceed those of air travel, possibly 2-5 times higher. To match airfare prices, India would have to use other economic means or funds to cover the enormous losses. Otherwise, even if these high-speed rail lines are opened, they will quickly shut down due to funding problems.

In the 2000s, China collaborated with Germany to build a maglev train demonstration line in Shanghai. Because the technology and related systems of this line are completely incompatible with China's existing high-speed rail system, it has remained in independent operation.
The system was originally intended as a mode of transportation for ordinary people. However, its high operating costs resulted in extremely high ticket prices. A 29km journey costs 50 RMB. This has turned it into a tourist attraction for visitors rather than a daily mode of transportation. Locals or those who frequently travel between the two locations rarely use it.

 

[kmc_chacko]

A bad project. Shouldn't have been done at all.

Regards

same thing said about Vande Bharath

 

[Baadil]

Chinese HSR projects are loss making and are under huge debt, such projects needs economic viability, they are costly.

Loss-making in what sense? Maybe losing on operating costs but perhaps gaining in economic productivity due to efficient transport and enhanced connectivity. At least, I would imagine that would be the most reasonable justification for operational losses.

 

[Sam6536]

If there are only a few lines, the operating costs will be so high that ordinary Indians will find them unaffordable.

I think you are discounting the affluent Indian middle class. I know it is popular in the media to show India's poverty but it is the middle class which is driving India's growth.

However, the Modi government has consistently advocated "Made in India." If India seeks complete self-reliance in high-speed rail technology, this plan will be completely beyond India's capacity and will inevitably fail.

For the few lines that will pop up in the near future it's better contract them to international vendors like Japan.

Make in India with localisation is something that will come further down the line.

Bullet train is still a novelty concept. Major Indian cities first need to develop large connected metro lines. The best metro route line in India by far is the Delhi metro as of now. Pune metro is small and a lot of work is ongoing right now.

 

[Sam6536]

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Monorail was another concept that was tried in Mumbai. It failed though and the plan was dropped. Metro is more practical.

 

[Sam6536]

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This is something I came upon recently. Didn't know we had such a thing called water metro in Kerala.

 

[Michael]

I think you are discounting the affluent Indian middle class. I know it is popular in the media to show India's poverty but it is the middle class which is driving India's growth.

I never underestimate India. At least, I've never had that thought in my mind.

I only provide feedback based on the knowledge I possess. If I'm wrong, I will apologize. Then, I will continue to learn and understand the relevant information. I don't completely trust official reports and media news. I have my own opinions on many things. That's one of the reasons I'm active here; I hope to gain some genuine insights.

In reality, I know some actual Indian people and some people of Indian descent from other countries.
For example, there are Indians who are active in the diamond business in Shenzhen. In the eyes of Chinese people, they belong to the middle class. Based on my interactions with them, they also consider themselves to be middle class. But I don't know what group you would consider them to belong to. According to them, in India, they already belong to the very wealthy class.
When choosing transportation, price is also a very important factor for them.

 

[Guynextdoor]

The core reason why high-speed rail projects are prone to losses is that not only are the initial investments extremely high, but the subsequent maintenance costs are also very high.

For India, if it's just about connecting a few major cities, then directly outsourcing the entire project to Japan or France, without investing more funds in research and development and manufacturing of high-speed rail, would be the most economically efficient option.

However, the Modi government has consistently advocated "Made in India." If India seeks complete self-reliance in high-speed rail technology, this plan will be completely beyond India's capacity and will inevitably fail.

If there are only a few lines, the operating costs will be so high that ordinary Indians will find them unaffordable. It's certain that the fares will far exceed those of air travel, possibly 2-5 times higher. To match airfare prices, India would have to use other economic means or funds to cover the enormous losses. Otherwise, even if these high-speed rail lines are opened, they will quickly shut down due to funding problems.

In the 2000s, China collaborated with Germany to build a maglev train demonstration line in Shanghai. Because the technology and related systems of this line are completely incompatible with China's existing high-speed rail system, it has remained in independent operation.
The system was originally intended as a mode of transportation for ordinary people. However, its high operating costs resulted in extremely high ticket prices. A 29km journey costs 50 RMB. This has turned it into a tourist attraction for visitors rather than a daily mode of transportation. Locals or those who frequently travel between the two locations rarely use it.

No they aren't . HSR is not supposed be 'everywhere' but on select locations where they are viable. India will build only on 12 corridoors between major cities with big volumes. Anything beyond is just a waste of money.

 

[Guynextdoor]

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This is something I came upon recently. Didn't know we had such a thing called water metro in Kerala.

Exactly the kind of transport we need. Viable, fulfills need and worth the money.

 

[onlinpunit]

yeah but.....Bangaloreans LOVE the Bangalore airport. I think we will use every excuse we get to go there. It's one of the VERY BEST airports in Asia.

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When I was in Bangalore, the airport was my favorite place to hang out !!