India Lucky Not To Lose More Than Four Rafales

[Windjammer]

I love how he keeps repeating the fourth Rafale, and how what "PAF" is showing him correlates with "what he has been shown", implying that he has had access to information in the UK of what actually happened, and India's actual losses.

I think you missed out on that he was at one of the bases today.... meaning he's in Pakistan where he personally met the PAF boss and has seen all the evidence.

 

[PakistanLVR]

What a PHAG0T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus Christ, this is exactly what I wrote in my post on this thread. I'm starting to believe the 6 shot down planes is an outright lie to provide the Pakistani people with some sort of fait accompli that all is well but really I'm starting to believe that number is inflated. They let the Indians come in and murder innocent Pakistanis sleeping in their homes and mosques and this son of a Hera Mandi Wh*re on the date it occurred is say all is well.
If gaslighting was a person.

These types of "Muslims" deserve to be bombed at will for they are the worst of the all the beings Allah SWT created. Even the May 10th "massive attack" was a big can of nothing. Some soldiers launching missiles during Hi-Tea and then claiming of a massive attack. Such unprofessional soldering I have ever seen.
I want to smash the Indians faces. This is why @MastanKhan is right. Because of Pakistani cowardice, you've basically embolden the subhumans Paj33ts and now they know they can use as many missiles and drones as possible and Pakistan won't do much while hiding behind "but but but IMF loans and International Community."

I watched an American Podcast that had a Chinese guest on (Chinese American) and he basically called out Pakistan's failures during this time - not taking the imitative to finally smash the Indians psyche of superiority.

The War Nerd was right to call them out 23 years and I see nothing has changed.

War Nerd: Fag vs. Fag: the India-Pakistan Phoney War - By Gary Brecher - The eXiled

exiledonline.com

"As a former elementary-school bully (turned high school punching bag), I’ll tell you a little secret: there is no “almost” in a fight. When you’re fighting somebody who “almost” hits people, you can relax. He won’t do shit.

I wish I had better news. I wish I could tell you there was a chance of a war worth watching down in that hellhole subcontinent. But there isn’t. They’ll probably wipe each other out someday, but till then it’s just going to be dead cows and villagers, and dumb generals in secondhand British uniforms talking big for the camera with their little moustaches going up and down, up and down."

War Nerd: Fag vs. Fag: the India-Pakistan Phoney War - By Gary Brecher - The eXiled

exiledonline.com

 

[Ali_Baba]

I think you missed out on that he was at one of the bases today.... meaning he's in Pakistan where he personally met the PAF boss and has seen all the evidence.

I know he is in Pakistan right now. I agree he has seen evidence now which most likely has confirmed what he saw and was told by his contacts in the uk before he went to Pakistan.

 

[Alex]

Feel free to elaborate on exactly how stand-off missile strikes can be stopped. Most observers would agree that India firing across the IB was an unexpected event and whatever locks PAF had or didn't have would not have stopped that attack. PAF - and no air force on earth - can fire their air to air missiles quickly enough after stand off missiles are fired to thwart those specific attacks. It is sheer lunacy to suggest otherwise. PAF's job was to retaliate after those attacks, which they did, and despite Sanaullah's whimpering, that retaliation went on beyond the downing of jets.


Lastly, I remain certain that you, my dear friend, are an Indian or of Indian origin, (since you seem to understand Urdu quite well).

Mixing Indian narratives with genuine, well-intended critique of Pakistan's actions in May (i.e. a b.s. sandwich) should definitely result in a stern warning from moderators, but that is not for me to decide, so carry on and post whatever you wish to. I am happy to respond.

Let me deal with your end paragraphs. I don't have to keep repeating myself; I am not an Indian, not by any stretch of the imagination. In my circles I am known as a straight-talking honest man. Therefore, I am proud of myself for my habits of being thoughtful and honest.

despite Sanaullah's whimpering, that retaliation went on beyond the downing of jets.

Not strictly correct. As he said, Pakistan didn't respond for 4 days after India's initial strikes to attack alleged suspected sites and kill 40+ innocent Pakistani people.
Pakistan only responded after India's strikes on 11 May, hitting Pakistani air bases.
Therefore, what he said became true. They in fact didn't attack India until India struck again.

Feel free to elaborate on exactly how stand-off missile strikes can be stopped. Most observers would agree that India firing across the IB was an unexpected event and whatever locks PAF had or didn't have would not have stopped that attack.

We are on a defence forum here. I am repeating this umpteen times.
1. Air Vice Marshal Aurangzeb, in his presentation, showed Pakistan was aware and was tracking all the Indian jets taking part in the attacks. He said first there were 60 jets which later increased to 72.
I could show evidence from Pakistan warning of retaliation if India attacks days before the actual attack. It is clear Pakistan was expecting an attack from India.
2. If your enemy who fought 3 wars and other smaller skirmishes against you comes to your borders with 72 loaded jets, is he there to have a picnic?
3. Evidence has emerged that Pakistan had Indian assets jammed, locked and ready to be taken shots at.


4. Alan wrote, ACM Sindhu told him IAF's entire kill chain was brought down. Explain to me what is included in the entire kill chain.
5- When you have the enemies radars jammed, GPS killed, and satellite downlinks scuttled. Your enemy is practically blinded and unable to do anything.
6- Why and how were they allowed to attack Pakistan when their entire kill chain was brought down?

I hope you will answer me without repeating your early answer about strikes. Remember, at the end of the day, two really bad outcomes for Pakistan resulted from these strikes.
1- India's claim that they have busted Pakistan's nuclear deterrence by striking deep inside Pakistan.
2- 40+ innocent Pakistanis died.

 

[Yasser76]

Let me deal with your end paragraphs. I don't have to keep repeating myself; I am not an Indian, not by any stretch of the imagination. In my circles I am known as a straight-talking honest man. Therefore, I am proud of myself for my habits of being thoughtful and honest.


Not strictly correct. As he said, Pakistan didn't respond for 4 days after India's initial strikes to attack alleged suspected sites and kill 40+ innocent Pakistani people.
Pakistan only responded after India's strikes on 11 May, hitting Pakistani air bases.
Therefore, what he said became true. They in fact didn't attack India until India struck again.

We are on a defence forum here. I am repeating this umpteen times.
1. Air Vice Marshal Aurangzeb, in his presentation, showed Pakistan was aware and was tracking all the Indian jets taking part in the attacks. He said first there were 60 jets which later increased to 72.
I could show evidence from Pakistan warning of retaliation if India attacks days before the actual attack. It is clear Pakistan was expecting an attack from India.
2. If your enemy who fought 3 wars and other smaller skirmishes against you comes to your borders with 72 loaded jets, is he there to have a picnic?
3. Evidence has emerged that Pakistan had Indian assets jammed, locked and ready to be taken shots at.

View attachment 134325
4. Alan wrote, ACM Sindhu told him IAF's entire kill chain was brought down. Explain to me what is included in the entire kill chain.
5- When you have the enemies radars jammed, GPS killed, and satellite downlinks scuttled. Your enemy is practically blinded and unable to do anything.
6- Why and how were they allowed to attack Pakistan when their entire kill chain was brought down?

I hope you will answer me without repeating your early answer about strikes. Remember, at the end of the day, two really bad outcomes for Pakistan resulted from these strikes.
1- India's claim that they have busted Pakistan's nuclear deterrence by striking deep inside Pakistan.
2- 40+ innocent Pakistanis died.

Not sure how retarded you have to be to understand if PAF went all out it would have lef to an all out war. Policy was Quid pro quo plus (you may need to Google what that means), policy was carried out.

Am i happy we did not wipe out more of your countrymen Alex/Rakesh? Course not, we should have hit you so hard that you would not even have the balls to create a fake American profile and log on to here, but just go and cry to your Bakht mates about how Modi lied to you.

Am i happy we avoided an all out war that could have killed members of my family? 100% yes.

Naturally being the keyboard warrior you are I would not expect you to understand these things Rakesh....

 

[Yasser76]

I think you missed out on that he was at one of the bases today.... meaning he's in Pakistan where he personally met the PAF boss and has seen all the evidence.

Dont want to be "that guy" but said this on the forum 2 weeks ago....

 

[Alex]

Not sure how retarded you have to be to understand if PAF went all out it would have lef to an all out war. Policy was Quid pro quo plus (you may need to Google what that means), policy was carried out.

Am i happy we did not wipe out more of your countrymen Alex/Rakesh? Course not, we should have hit you so hard that you would not even have the balls to create a fake American profile and log on to here, but just go and cry to your Bakht mates about how Modi lied to you.

Am i happy we avoided an all out war that could have killed members of my family? 100% yes.

Naturally being the keyboard warrior you are I would not expect you to understand these things Rakesh....

Oh, I would have been more than happy if you had struck first and shot down all 72 jets attacking Pakistan. After all, you had their entire kill chain under your control. So why did you hesitate?
Remember, deterrence stops all-out wars, not dithering.

 

[Yasser76]

Oh, I would have been more than happy if you had struck first and shot down all 72 jets attacking Pakistan. After all, you had their entire kill chain under your control. So why did you hesitate?
Remember, deterrence stops all-out wars, not dithering.

I explained why Rakesh. If you cannot understand my posts blame Moid's education system....

 

[Master Chief]

Let me deal with your end paragraphs. I don't have to keep repeating myself; I am not an Indian, not by any stretch of the imagination. In my circles I am known as a straight-talking honest man. Therefore, I am proud of myself for my habits of being thoughtful and honest.


Not strictly correct. As he said, Pakistan didn't respond for 4 days after India's initial strikes to attack alleged suspected sites and kill 40+ innocent Pakistani people.
Pakistan only responded after India's strikes on 11 May, hitting Pakistani air bases.
Therefore, what he said became true. They in fact didn't attack India until India struck again.

We are on a defence forum here. I am repeating this umpteen times.
1. Air Vice Marshal Aurangzeb, in his presentation, showed Pakistan was aware and was tracking all the Indian jets taking part in the attacks. He said first there were 60 jets which later increased to 72.
I could show evidence from Pakistan warning of retaliation if India attacks days before the actual attack. It is clear Pakistan was expecting an attack from India.
2. If your enemy who fought 3 wars and other smaller skirmishes against you comes to your borders with 72 loaded jets, is he there to have a picnic?
3. Evidence has emerged that Pakistan had Indian assets jammed, locked and ready to be taken shots at.

View attachment 134325
4. Alan wrote, ACM Sindhu told him IAF's entire kill chain was brought down. Explain to me what is included in the entire kill chain.
5- When you have the enemies radars jammed, GPS killed, and satellite downlinks scuttled. Your enemy is practically blinded and unable to do anything.
6- Why and how were they allowed to attack Pakistan when their entire kill chain was brought down?

I hope you will answer me without repeating your early answer about strikes. Remember, at the end of the day, two really bad outcomes for Pakistan resulted from these strikes.
1- India's claim that they have busted Pakistan's nuclear deterrence by striking deep inside Pakistan.
2- 40+ innocent Pakistanis died.

I dispute your 2 outcomes. The first is false. No nuclear site was struck (which I will remind you was one of your earlier claims). You have watered this down now to our nuclear deterrence being "busted". You yourself backtracked on your previous claim. Nothing more to add from me. Y

Your second outcome I wholly agree with. As said before, our response was insufficient.

So far, you have presented the single rant of a known coward and fraud politician caught by a journo's question - which I have accepted as evidence of this man's incompetence in front of camera. You have no evidence that Pakistan either believed operations had ceased or had planned as such.

It is perfectly rational to wait at times during a conflict to gauge the nature and level of an enemy's next move. The criticism that you have levelled at Pakistan's military implies that as an organisation, they were wholly satisfied with the outcome of the air skirmish and there is no evidence for this assertion. I am happy to accept your narrative if you can prove it.

Otherwise, we find ourselves after the 7th May in a situation where Pakistan was entirely actively engaged but waiting for India's movements. Did you know India's plan? Did you know what assets Pakistan should move and where to in order to enable full spectrum defence? The PAF is evidently our strongest proven asset from the May conflict but where should they be deployed to counter multiple threats - missile launchers, Indian navy and ground troops?

Granted, we may criticise Pakistan for waiting for the correct moment to deploy assets, but what can a military do when it is outnumbered and outflanked by default?

Your assertions that Pakistan's military believed the conflict was over after 7th May are incorrect. All military statements suggested the contrary. Nobody in India had said the conflict was over either, so why do you even pursue this narrative?

Your earlier arguments that Pakistan's ability to track and hack the audio of Indian jets automatically equates to an ability to strike at will is precisely why the IAF was grounded and a 300km air superiority corridor was established after 7th May.

You are talking about PAF somehow "failing" on the basis of not being able to stop Brahmos attacks and saturation drone attacks. Clearly PAF succeeded in their role of establishing air superiority. Again, I agree with you ONLY on the point that more should have been done to their air force while it was in the sky on 7th May. I don't know why you are blaming PAF for the Brahmos and drone attacks. You wanted to risk the air force to take out every air rifle and catapult pointed at Pakistan that week?

Honestly, you have made some decent points, but they are so hard to extract from amidst the hubris that questions will persist regarding their underlying motive.

 

[Musings]

I explained why Rakesh. If you cannot understand my posts blame Moid's education system....

Why you attempting to debate with someone embarrassed to put his real flags up? Doesnt that speak volumes?

 

[MastanKhan]

"As a former elementary-school bully (turned high school punching bag), I’ll tell you a little secret: there is no “almost” in a fight. When you’re fighting somebody who “almost” hits people, you can relax. He won’t do shit.

I wish I had better news. I wish I could tell you there was a chance of a war worth watching down in that hellhole subcontinent. But there isn’t. They’ll probably wipe each other out someday, but till then it’s just going to be dead cows and villagers, and dumb generals in secondhand British uniforms talking big for the camera with their little moustaches going up and down, up and down."

War Nerd: Fag vs. Fag: the India-Pakistan Phoney War - By Gary Brecher - The eXiled

exiledonline.com

Hi,

When you plan to "almost hit"---that becomes your habit---.

You react in that manner by reflex---waiting for approval from the top to shoot or not to shoot.

The first reaction would---"if I can let him go---then I will let him go---".

PAF is firstly " in the fear of escalation mode---" and secondly---" showing off as a teenager how they did what they did---without any consideration that extremely secret and sensitive information is being leaked out---".

 

[MastanKhan]

Let me deal with your end paragraphs. I don't have to keep repeating myself; I am not an Indian, not by any stretch of the imagination. In my circles I am known as a straight-talking honest man. Therefore, I am proud of myself for my habits of being thoughtful and honest.


Not strictly correct. As he said, Pakistan didn't respond for 4 days after India's initial strikes to attack alleged suspected sites and kill 40+ innocent Pakistani people.
Pakistan only responded after India's strikes on 11 May, hitting Pakistani air bases.
Therefore, what he said became true. They in fact didn't attack India until India struck again.

We are on a defence forum here. I am repeating this umpteen times.
1. Air Vice Marshal Aurangzeb, in his presentation, showed Pakistan was aware and was tracking all the Indian jets taking part in the attacks. He said first there were 60 jets which later increased to 72.
I could show evidence from Pakistan warning of retaliation if India attacks days before the actual attack. It is clear Pakistan was expecting an attack from India.
2. If your enemy who fought 3 wars and other smaller skirmishes against you comes to your borders with 72 loaded jets, is he there to have a picnic?
3. Evidence has emerged that Pakistan had Indian assets jammed, locked and ready to be taken shots at.

View attachment 134325
4. Alan wrote, ACM Sindhu told him IAF's entire kill chain was brought down. Explain to me what is included in the entire kill chain.
5- When you have the enemies radars jammed, GPS killed, and satellite downlinks scuttled. Your enemy is practically blinded and unable to do anything.
6- Why and how were they allowed to attack Pakistan when their entire kill chain was brought down?

I hope you will answer me without repeating your early answer about strikes. Remember, at the end of the day, two really bad outcomes for Pakistan resulted from these strikes.
1- India's claim that they have busted Pakistan's nuclear deterrence by striking deep inside Pakistan.
2- 40+ innocent Pakistanis died.

Hi,

By kill chain I think he meant that those aircraft that launched missiles on pakistan---they were taken out and the rest were let go---.

I wished these fools had not not bragged about letting the enemy escape---. They should not have strutted around that " we could have " and stayed with what they shot down disclaimer---.

 

[baqai]

Let me deal with your end paragraphs. I don't have to keep repeating myself; I am not an Indian, not by any stretch of the imagination. In my circles I am known as a straight-talking honest man. Therefore, I am proud of myself for my habits of being thoughtful and honest.


Not strictly correct. As he said, Pakistan didn't respond for 4 days after India's initial strikes to attack alleged suspected sites and kill 40+ innocent Pakistani people.
Pakistan only responded after India's strikes on 11 May, hitting Pakistani air bases.
Therefore, what he said became true. They in fact didn't attack India until India struck again.

We are on a defence forum here. I am repeating this umpteen times.
1. Air Vice Marshal Aurangzeb, in his presentation, showed Pakistan was aware and was tracking all the Indian jets taking part in the attacks. He said first there were 60 jets which later increased to 72.
I could show evidence from Pakistan warning of retaliation if India attacks days before the actual attack. It is clear Pakistan was expecting an attack from India.
2. If your enemy who fought 3 wars and other smaller skirmishes against you comes to your borders with 72 loaded jets, is he there to have a picnic?
3. Evidence has emerged that Pakistan had Indian assets jammed, locked and ready to be taken shots at.

View attachment 134325
4. Alan wrote, ACM Sindhu told him IAF's entire kill chain was brought down. Explain to me what is included in the entire kill chain.
5- When you have the enemies radars jammed, GPS killed, and satellite downlinks scuttled. Your enemy is practically blinded and unable to do anything.
6- Why and how were they allowed to attack Pakistan when their entire kill chain was brought down?

I hope you will answer me without repeating your early answer about strikes. Remember, at the end of the day, two really bad outcomes for Pakistan resulted from these strikes.
1- India's claim that they have busted Pakistan's nuclear deterrence by striking deep inside Pakistan.
2- 40+ innocent Pakistanis died.

i think most of your answers should come with ROE (Rules of Engagement), for us it was most probably DO NOT FIRE UNTIL FIRED UPON, the jamming can confuse comms and radars but it cannot bring down an aircraft, all the aircrafts launched their ammunition from their own territory

When someone says "brought down the kill chain" it does not mean literally, he was most probably referring to F2T2EA (Find, Fix, Track, Target, Engage, Assess), since comms and radars were jammed the kill chain was brought down and their air assets were not able to do any damage to our air assets (i will highly appreciate if someone knowledgeable correct my Falcon 4.0ish knowledge )

I think a lot more happened during this engagement that we don't know, things will gradually come out

 

[MastanKhan]

i think most of your answers should come with ROE (Rules of Engagement), for us it was most probably DO NOT FIRE UNTIL FIRED UPON, the jamming can confuse comms and radars but it cannot bring down an aircraft, all the aircrafts launched their ammunition from their own territory

When someone says "brought down the kill chain" it does not mean literally, he was most probably referring to F2T2EA (Find, Fix, Track, Target, Engage, Assess), since comms and radars were jammed the kill chain was brought down and their air assets were not able to do any damage to our air assets (i will highly appreciate if someone knowledgeable correct my Falcon 4.0ish knowledge )

I think a lot more happened during this engagement that we don't know, things will gradually come out

Hi,

Old / current ROE are a thing of the PAST---total BS---& obsolete.

Modern strike aircraft are carrying missiles that can hit from 300-500 miles distance---.

And when there are 70 - 80 of them coming in your direction after the enemy has made the threat to attack anytime any place---it should have been " FREE FOR ALL---NO HOLDS BARRED " order passed along---.

Paf had lied---& Paf is still lying---.

What time frame is the Paf living in---one wonders---.

 

[side-winder]

Hi,

Old / current ROE are a thing of the PAST---total BS---& obsolete.

Modern strike aircraft are carrying missiles that can hit from 300-500 miles distance---.

And when there are 70 - 80 of them coming in your direction after the enemy has made the threat to attack anytime any place---it should have been " FREE FOR ALL---NO HOLDS BARRED " order passed along---.

Paf had lied---& Paf is still lying---.

What time frame is the Paf living in---one wonders---.

Sir, while my heart does agree with you that we should have done the bloodbath that we were cabable of on that night -- And furthermore, we should have struck them on ground -- hard -- the very same morning -- would have sent one hell of a message while they would be trying to recover from the shock --- Even though that could have driven the Indians completely mad and who knows what could follow next.

However, do you really believe PAF on its own could just decide to take out everything they could across the border in the skies? Does the PAF Chief really enjoy that much power?