India Lucky Not To Lose More Than Four Rafales

[flyingorca]

Hurting is it? I never claimed it.

Let me also analyse your copious use of the word “SHAMELESS”. You have been quite emotive about it and trying to perch up on a very high tree without looking at your own past.

I agree that it is shameless display by India for not declaring the exact numbers lost. I AGREE.

BUT, similar or worst SHAMLESS lies have been told by your establishment time and again. But, you would never accept it since you appear to be a fanboy/bhaktora.

A little off topic (apologies @mods), but Kargil is not so far back that fanboys have completely forgotten about it. Musharraf and team never accepted the shahadat of your soldiers for a couple of years. They had claimed that only Mujahids were involved for quite some time. But that must be a masterstroke of strategy and SHAME wasn’t involved at all.

ISPR during the recent skirmish, shamelessly lied through it’s teeth, that India was launching ballistic missiles at its own cities. It must be a truth to you, a bhaktora aka fanboy.

So, don’t get excited, take it easy and come down from your perch. It may come to bite you back in no time.

Ah Indians doing Indian things living in past falsehood. You guys are lucky that media was not so transparent and Indians were able to make up lies and propaganda to save their humiliation. Since you brought up Kargil, do know that Pakistan used only troops to occupy Indian territory for 2 to 3 months against Indian military with full air support, unlimited reinforcement, and unlimited supplies. Pakistan merely used equipment that they managed to sneak up the mountain on foot. If Pakistan was not pressurized by US and had political support, things would have been different.
As for disowning the bodies, that was mere Indian propaganda and were posing as Pakistani soldiers for propaganda. In Pakistan we honor every soldier with proper Islamic burial and have evidence inform of graves. You guys can quickly dispose the bodies of your soldiers by burning them and dispose off the evidence.

 

[Vkdindian1]

Hahahaha.

You won't believe but it's actually true. Missiles were fired from indian side on 8th May and between 0000-0100 hrs on 10th may before the IAF's attack on Nur Khan. There are tons of "interception" videos on indian twitter handles claiming interceptions of Pakistani IRBMs / MRBMs.

Whereas until that - Pakistan had not fired any missile towards India. The ISPR also showed some radar tracks. Which ofcourse you will dismiss as propaganda - it's fine.

But it's true - i am 100% certain on this thing. So much crazy shit was going on BETWEEN 7th may and Indian attacks on our Bases on 10th - Which most of people have very little or absolutely no knowledge about

View attachment 144513

Just one such example:

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I find you one of the most level headed and forthcoming Think Tanks on PDF.
However, I would respectfully disagree with you in this.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

I find you one of the most level headed and forthcoming Think Tanks on PDF.
However, I would respectfully disagree with you in this.

I have never seen you saying anything 'remotely normal' and 'balanced'!


every soul less lecture you have written here, has hints of hatred and shows how stinge you are!

clever (but not so much!), rude, demeaning and supremacist!

 

[Hayabusa]

Hahahaha.

You won't believe but it's actually true. Missiles were fired from indian side on 8th May and between 0000-0100 hrs on 10th may before the IAF's attack on Nur Khan. There are tons of "interception" videos on indian twitter handles claiming interceptions of Pakistani IRBMs / MRBMs.

Whereas until that - Pakistan had not fired any missile towards India. The ISPR also showed some radar tracks. Which ofcourse you will dismiss as propaganda - it's fine.

But it's true - i am 100% certain on this thing. So much crazy shit was going on BETWEEN 7th may and Indian attacks on our Bases on 10th - Which most of people have very little or absolutely no knowledge about

View attachment 144513

Just one such example:

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Crazy.

The fact that they launch their own missiles and intercept it on their own. Even I find it hard to believe though coming from you seems credible enough.

Was Pakistan's operation Bunyan Un-Marsoos launched in the end in response to India's targeting of our bases between 8th to 10th? Or was it in response to the attack on India's initial strike?

It seems that our operation was what led to a ceasefire in the end. Do you think is what happened?

 

[side-winder]

I find you one of the most level headed and forthcoming Think Tanks on PDF.
However, I would respectfully disagree with you in this.

No problem - i never expect anyone from india to believe it and even some of Pakistanis, too - sounds very bizarre thing.

But i have seen the "additional" evidence myself. In addition to whatever is available on the internet.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

I find you one of the most level headed and forthcoming Think Tanks on PDF.
However, I would respectfully disagree with you in this.

We have advantage to develop tactics against S-400, turkey and China have S-400 and also Chinese HQ-9 series of SAMs is similar to S-400 so these friendly countries can share the information with us that how to defeat your out of this universe S-400

 

[MirageV3ff]

JF 17 / F-16 stories are not true. The damage to SAAB however is also underplayed.

I do have some information in regards to the aircraft in question but I believe it isn't best sharing it here

 

[NationalistPKDude132]

my dad is PAF and a Director

AWAC was damaged but its been repaired ever since lol
We dealt worse in kamra

 

[side-winder]

Crazy.

The fact that they launch their own missiles and intercept it on their own. Even I find it hard to believe though coming from you seems credible enough.

Was Pakistan's operation Bunyan Un-Marsoos launched in the end in response to India's targeting of our bases between 8th to 10th? Or was it in response to the attack on India's initial strike?

It seems that our operation was what led to a ceasefire in the end. Do you think is what happened?

The plan was always there to retaliate with counter strikes on ground on limited scale - that's something which even IAF chief also highlighted where he mentioned that India offered Pakistan to actually call off things on 7th. However per the IAF chief Pakistan refused and said "ab hum maren gy uskay bad dekhen gy". And that sent some serious panic into Indian side.

However, i think that actually turned out to be a blessing in disguise for India. They joined heads together. Quickly worked out on why their planes were shot out of sky. Decided to keep IAF away from PL-15s, fly lesser but better planned sorties, launch loitering munitions on PAF Air Defence assets and bring SSM BrahMos into plan to minimize the risk factor for IAF.

And it worked for India - atleast from the "optics" and public face saving point of view.

From Pakistan's point of view - not that Pakistan launched their strikes on any lesser scale. Atleast 26 locations in india were targeted. But unless they bring actual evidence for damage on ground - the optics favor the indian side.

What i think is - we shouldn't have waited for indian to begin assault on our bases. Like swift retort - the response should have come faster. The indians were already in the awe of what had just happened to their planes. They were shocked. Better to exploit it to your advantage right away than to wait for them to re-work their startegy.

Now what enforced ceasefire? It's because India, Pakistan and US all wanted it. Everybody could see things were heading to disaster. Pakistan because, we didn't have an immediate solution to the problem of "India has BrahMos in large numbers so even 50-60% interception rate was not helpful". India because, they knew what would happen if Pakistan decides to move to next tier of strike options and the kind of targets including economic hubs which Pakistani side threatened to hit - and ofcourse the trade threats by US also came into play.

 

[Hayabusa]

The plan was always there to retaliate with counter strikes on ground on limited scale - that's something which even IAF chief also highlighted where he mentioned that India offered Pakistan to actually call off things on 7th. However per the IAF chief Pakistan refused and said "ab hum maren gy uskay bad dekhen gy". And that sent some serious panic into Indian side.

However, i think that actually turned out to be a blessing in disguise for India. They joined heads together. Quickly worked out on why their planes were shot out of sky. Decided to keep IAF away from PL-15s, fly lesser but better planned sorties, launch loitering munitions on PAF Air Defence assets and bring SSM BrahMos into plan to minimize the risk factor for IAF.

And it worked for India - atleast from the "optics" and public face saving point of view.

Good points.

I just hope with the creation of the rocket armed forces, any attack on Pakistan will be immediately responded to, and directly on their military bases.

india has set the new normal of how future attacks are going to be like, and the next attacks are going to be progressively worse than the one before (2016, 2019).

 

[Olympus81]

From a strategic perspective, what we see is India positioning itself that it is allowed to conduct preemptive strikes without repurcussions.

Can the same be said if Pakistan does a pre emptive strike on India without blowback? I very much doubt so.

Pakistan has been lucky. In 2019, it was IAF’s incompetence and 2025 PAF showed spectral dominance over IAF.

Does one think every time India does a preemptive strike that Pakistan will come out on top?

Hence, the solution is to turn this status quo around. That Pakistan will not think before doing preemptive strikes if it sees an imminent threat and its upto the leaders to create an environment and a narrative of new normal.

 

[Olympus81]

Good points.

I just hope with the creation of the rocket armed forces, any attack on Pakistan will be immediately responded to, and directly on their military bases.

india has set the new normal of how future attacks are going to be like, and the next attacks are going to be progressively worse than the one before (2016, 2019).

Yes. That is very much a lesson learned.

After downing 4-6 IAF jets and targeting the S400s, Pakistan gave India 2 days to regroup. Imagine if PA were to send in drones, loitering munition, missile strikes the next morning.

The war drums were looming since a couple of weeks so there are no excuses.

In addition, on a tactical level, seems the army has learned its lesson. A rocket force will make sure the Indians beyond the Western, Central and the UP belt get a glimpse of Hatfs and UAVs very much early in the conflict.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I’ve found this guy irritating at best so avoid giving him any hits. Constantly and repeatedly stressing ‘allegedly’ when their is undeniable proof of at least 4 top IAF jets down and related reports in US’s own news outlets like WP and NYT quoting independent experts who have assessed the evidence, says all u need to know about how impartial his analysis is going to be. Not surprising as ex USAF, he’s hardly going to be receptive to the idea that top Western tech was smashed by equivalent Chinese tech.

while talking about Western commentators with Military aviation background there is an old US Navy Aviator who is serious and even appears pro Pakistani. he has interviewed some Pakistani former pilots as well.

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[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Yes. That is very much a lesson learned.

After downing 4-6 IAF jets and targeting the S400s, Pakistan gave India 2 days to regroup. Imagine if PA were to send in drones, loitering munition, missile strikes the next morning.

The war drums were looming since a couple of weeks so there are no excuses.

In addition, on a tactical level, seems the army has learned its lesson. A rocket force will make sure the Indians beyond the Western, Central and the UP belt get a glimpse of Hatfs and UAVs very much early in the conflict.

new national defense policy is needed!



imagine that, and, that mentality is lagging 10 years back!


build missiles, as many cruise missiles as bullets... and if even a single rocket is fired, throw them all!

 

[Taimoor]

What i think is - we shouldn't have waited for indian to begin assault on our bases. Like swift retort - the response should have come faster. The indians were already in the awe of what had just happened to their planes. They were shocked. Better to exploit it to your advantage right away than to wait for them to re-work their startegy.

Why do you think it happened that way?