Indian Air Force News and Discussions ll

[CallSignMaverick]

So after four decades you are saying you have a handful of planes


And that's not bad.

Yes, at least helping us go forward instead of going back to loop of imports.

And therefore what makes you think you can do it sooner? By the time you get to where the rest of the world is they will stand still for you, right?

Where did i say we will get it done sooner? Maybe read your own posts and whatever is posted earlier before putting words in others' mouths. Nobody cares about rest of the world, we getting what we need matters to us. That's it. Except a few nobody has ever made turbofan engines, the "rest of the world" is a small club, even within them only 2-3 left to build future engines. Reason why Indo-French NAE mission got mutual approval and push from both sides.

I'm not trying to make the standard remark that look how far behind you are from China, but still it is just one way to understand the astronomical difference.

Again, good for them. We still have multiple jet engines we make under license in India with high levels of indigenisation anyways, thats another option which remains open to us.

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You don't need anything more than room temperature IQ to guess it is AI generated

 

[CallSignMaverick]

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[Ak01]

Development Speed: Turkey's aerospace sector (TEI) has made rapid, recent strides, leaping from smaller engines to designing 160 kN thrust engines for the KAAN fighter within a decade. India’s Kaveri project has faced severe, multi-decade delays since the 1980s.
Current Status & Strategy: Turkey is developing its own engines (TF35000) for the KAAN while using GE F110s for prototypes. India has pivoted to co-developing/producing engines with foreign partners (e.g., France's Safran for 120 kN engines) after failures to indigenize the Kaveri.
Dependency: Turkey is actively seeking to break its reliance on foreign, specifically U.S., engines. India remains "critically dependent" on U.S. General Electric engines for its entire fighter fleet, including the LCA Tejas and upcoming AMCA.
Future Goals: Turkey aims to field its own engines for its 5th-gen KAAN by 2032. India is pushing to produce a 120 kN engine with Safran for its AMCA Mk2.
While Turkey has successfully developed and tested smaller engines and is moving fast, India has a long history of design, but has struggled with manufacturing and, until recently, lacked a focused, collaborative approach to engine production, notes Swarajya.

having to use chatgpt kinda summed it up.

Can you just tell me how many engines turkey has made and how many india has?

 

[r3alist]

Yes, at least helping us go forward instead of going back to loop of imports.

This is real high IQ stuff.

At least we didn't go backwards.....we think

Where did i say we will get it done sooner?

Where do you think anyone thinks you will get it done at all?

Nobody cares about rest of the world,

Yes so I'm pretty sure India could come up with an indigenous version of the spitfire..... Why don't you go for that huh that would be a fully indigenous product.... Just about


So you are saying you are aiming for what other countries have now but in 25 years and who cares what they have by then....
This explains so much

 

[r3alist]

having to use chatgpt kinda summed it up.

Can you just tell me how many engines turkey has made and how many india has?

Yeah I make no secrets this was copied from Google


The point is who is more advanced in the trajectory and who is making more rapid progress

Clearly it is the turks, Indian colleagues themselves say they are no strangers to jet engines presumably they started a while ago, of course could not finish but that's a separate question

 

[Ak01]

Yeah I make no secrets this was copied from Google


The point is who is more advanced in the trajectory and who is making more rapid progress

Clearly it is the turks, Indian colleagues themselves say they are no strangers to jet engines presumably they started a while ago, of course could not finish but that's a separate question

it doesnt matter whether they finished or not- learning comes from things like these. I dont see how the turks are ahead... The Indians are still ahead, until the Turks have built something that is produced en masse and entered into service, i will hold this opinion

 

[harpy1]

Why do people bring in china and Turkey into this thread please

The thread is Indian air force

India needs replacement of jaguar and Mirage so is buying with license production the Latest versions of Rafales

India is developing a fifth generation fighter it needs help with engine's both france and UK want the deal to help jointly develope one

India wants to enter race for sixth generation fighters soon after Amca arrives and is exploring weighing it's powerful strategic relationships with Europe and looking at Fcas or Gcap..

India has signed a 8.6 billion deal for Israelis missiles like lora rampage and drones ...again part of plans for long range strike capacity build up

Why is china or turkey to do with this road map

Finally India has announced 87 billion dollar defense budget IE 2% of gdp

To facilitate it's future defense modernization plans
I dua

 

[r3alist]

it doesnt matter whether they finished or not- learning comes from things like these. I dont see how the turks are ahead... The Indians are still ahead, until the Turks have built something that is produced en masse and entered into service, i will hold this opinion

Those are very dull and blunt parameters


Turkey is meant to have less resources less manpower and less know-how given the Indians rate their engineering so much


Yet Turkey has certainly made bigger strides, with less resources. You cannot dispute the rate of development Turkey has, therefore man for man Turkey is just producing better quality engineering and scientific competence


Are we suddenly now going to pretend in our large country with lots of resources, make up your mind

 

[Ak01]

Those are very dull and blunt parameters


Turkey is meant to have less resources less manpower and less know-how given the Indians rate their engineering so much


Yet Turkey has certainly made bigger strides, with less resources. You cannot dispute the rate of development Turkey has, therefore man for man Turkey is just producing better quality engineering and scientific competence


Are we suddenly now going to pretend in our large country with lots of resources, make up your mind

you're moving goalposts nonstop.

can you just simply tell me in what ways is turkey ahead of india in engine tech?

if not, thats the answer, theyre not.

Heck, theres nothing to say that kaan will succeed yet, the SU57 was developed but for all intents and purposes was a failure.

 

[r3alist]

Why do people bring in china and Turkey into this thread please

You are right, let's be fair to India, fragile egos.

I promise I will do my best not to make unfair comparisons

 

[r3alist]

you're moving goalposts nonstop.

can you just simply tell me in what ways is turkey ahead of india in engine tech?

if not, thats the answer, theyre not.

Heck, theres nothing to say that kaan will succeed yet, the SU57 was developed but for all intents and purposes was a failure.

So what date do you have Turkey beginning it's jet engine development? Around 2010?


India is meant to have been having a go since 1960 or something probably earlier.


They have a whole half century start.


Now you tell me who has made more meaningful progress.

Like what reality do you want to live in, you can half-start partially start a program, claim your learning valuable insights for 50 years and then another 20 years later it becomes a national project.

This whole lack of delivery itself is indicative of a ceiling to capability, other countries just shut up and get on with it and then deliver

 

[Ak01]

So what date do you have Turkey beginning it's jet engine development? Around 2010?


India is meant to have been having a go since 1960 or something probably earlier.


They have a whole half century start.


Now you tell me who has made more meaningful progress.

Like what reality do you want to live in, you can half-start partially start a program, claim your learning valuable insights for 50 years and then another 20 years later it becomes a national project.

This whole lack of delivery itself is indicative of a ceiling to capability, other countries just shut up and get on with it and then deliver

This is honestly useless because you're not interested in fact, but rather, supporting your bias.

Just some details on GTRE:

Gas Turbine Research Establishment

Gas Turbine Research Establishment, Laboratory of the Defence Research & Development Organisation

www.nti.org

Then you've got HAL Turbine
PTAE-7

with a few others in development.

Its a very silly game you're trying to play. The WS-10 took China about 45 years to get to the stage where its able to be mass produced.

Kaveri was initated at a similar time, though, with a pathetically tiny budget. 1/6th of what it typically costs to design an engine.

Where is the Turkish engine? Lets stop being silly. Indian engine expertise is far greater than Turkish, with a proper budget i do believe GTRE could probably build something competitive enough.

 

[harpy1]

Those are very dull and blunt parameters


Turkey is meant to have less resources less manpower and less know-how given the Indians rate their engineering so much


Yet Turkey has certainly made bigger strides, with less resources. You cannot dispute the rate of development Turkey has, therefore man for man Turkey is just producing better quality engineering and scientific competence


Are we suddenly now going to pretend in our large country with lots of resources, make up your mind

Turkey has zero engines relies on USA

Turkey has ten F110 engines for Kaan fighter, as it continues talks for more

Ten GE Aerospace F110 engines have been delivered for Turkey's developmental Kaan fighter, but negotiations for 80 additional powerplants face potential obstacles linked to Ankara's acquisition of Russian S-400 missiles.

www.flightglobal.com

And like India is looking at alternatives to USA engines and discussing help from United Kingdom rolls Royce

Kaan is needing a new engine right now compromised by USA engines

 

[r3alist]

This is honestly useless because you're not interested in fact, but rather, supporting your bias.

Just some details on GTRE:

Gas Turbine Research Establishment

Gas Turbine Research Establishment, Laboratory of the Defence Research & Development Organisation

www.nti.org

Then you've got HAL Turbine
PTAE-7

with a few others in development.

Its a very silly game you're trying to play. The WS-10 took China about 45 years to get to the stage where its able to be mass produced.

Kaveri was initated at a similar time, though, with a pathetically tiny budget. 1/6th of what it typically costs to design an engine.

Where is the Turkish engine? Lets stop being silly. Indian engine expertise is far greater than Turkish, with a proper budget i do believe GTRE could probably build something competitive enough.

You have not contradicted my facts, we agree that the Indians have half a century head start on the Turks?
And then even after that India is seeking co-production.

In 10 years time Turkey will have something more substantive than India. It is the trajectory.

 

[Ak01]

You have not contradicted my facts, we agree that the Indians have half a century head start on the Turks?
And then even after that India is seeking co-production.

In 10 years time Turkey will have something more substantive than India. It is the trajectory.

unfortunately you're blinded by your bias. We can have this conversation again when the turk engine is undergoing tests.