India’s long submarine journey: What went wrong and the plan ahead

[Pakistan Space Agency]

"Will be"

Ah, that old statement that props up every batshit argument from Indians on here....

Indians are the original Shaikh Chillis.

 

[peacemaker99]

They always have plans but not the capability.

In 1999, they finalised plans to build 24 submarines by 2030 but they have built only 6.

The same story with their LCA Flying Rickshaw.

6 is an overkill for PN

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

You need to get out of this mindset that china will give you what you desire ...

What is it that we want from China and haven't got yet?

... It will NOT be free aid like USA gives Israel to fight Arabs or NATO gives Ukraine

China this ...china that .china will . ...

When has China ever given anything free to Pakistan or Pakistan ever requested any freebies from China?

How are the nuclear biscuits coming along from the US that India has been begging the US for nearly 2 decades?

What about begging the white man to isolate Pakistan since the 1990s?

How about the dream of influencing China to abandon Pakistan in favour of the bigger economy of India?

What's happening with all obsolete Russian rubbish that India has horded for the last few decades?

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

China has already rejected pak request for nuke submarines. Costs a billion dollars each and millions more to maintain. Pak doesnt have money or capabilityfor either,

When was that request made from China?

And, why has Pakistan already acquired nuclear submarine technology indigenously?

 

[hussain0216]

6 is an overkill for PN

So was Rafael and Su30s

Then you woke up

And then India got humiliated

 

[CallSignMaverick]

even though you can counter subs with subs, you have to factor in ASW assets of both sides. Pakistani subs are a good sea denial platform. it is just they would be sitting ducks if they went too far out of their coastal waters

IN will operate 18 P8i Poseidons, 9 C-295 MRMR and 15 MQ-9B SeaGuardians for anti-submarine warfare in medium term. Apart from that 24 MH-60R Romeos. So even if IN lags in submarine numbers, it does have a highly formidable anti-submarine warfare capability no one can match in the region.

Also, not all submarines operated by PN would be at sea. Many would be undergoing scheduled maintenance and repairs and will be sitting ducks due to their shear size and proximity to international borders. Last year 3 out of 5 PN subs were out of sea.

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Not to mention, PN aviation's ASW aircrafts like ATR-72 and Sea Sultans are fairly large aircrafts. Making them highly vulnerable to get hit on ground with supersonic cruise missiles once they get detected by Indian ISR assets. India obviously in case of an all out war will try to take out enemy assets on ground. Even Iran did it with USA. But that requires persistent ISR, most of which is being covered under 3rd phase of Space Based Surveillance (SBS Phase-3) with 52 new satellites for $3.2 billion.

 

[Jaeger]

Pakistan already has sub based second strike, but it based on the Babur 3 SLCM

Pakistan now wants a nuclear capable sub which can fire a nuclear capable SLMB

I will be honest with you, it's only a matter of time



4 of the hangor subs are being built in Pakistan, it's a large sub and the basis of a future programme

The jugaad of firing a tactical nuke through through a torpedo tube of a submarine might seem like a novel solution. This way you can convert even a world War 2 submarine into a fearsome Armageddon machine. But its not really a true second strike capability.

You are a really limited by range, yield and number of nuclear weapons that you can launch this way.

Assembling a Chinese submarine at Karachi shipyard is not real hurdle which you have to overcome here. The real hurdle in your path to SSBN is how to miniaturize a working nuclear reactor and then turn that into a propulsion system

Especially when you have you never designed and built even a regular nuclear reactor ? That is the key technology that countries do not share.

 

[hussain0216]

You have 15 airbases, we bombed 12.

Look inward,

Come on, man...

You know this is ego driven fanboy bullshit from yourself

In a world where India was defeated and humiliated in a conflict it CHOSE to start, your fanboy defence of your fragile Indian ego is that all Pakistani military bases were destroyed


It's ridiculous trying to have a actual conversation with Indians when you are in this much denial

 

[Jaeger]

indian_defence_times

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Origin source of this information has been mentioned twice by me.

Do you know what Dropsite is. Is Drop site Indian?

 

[hussain0216]

According to dropsite not only did china reject the nuke sub demand but actually laughed at munir for raising it.

Fron what i understand PN budget is zbout 1 billion and he wanted to induct systems that cost 1 billion each for status Talk about pretentions.

What kind of ridiculously stupid Indian narrative is this

Why????? Would china laugh????


Pakistan has very strong relations with a number of countries

China is out main partner
Turkey and the Turkic world is another
We have alliances with many GCC states and establishing close relations with many others


China is a seller,
Because of the close relationship with Pakistan, Pakistan has access to things others don't
China will and has helped us do things, that it won't do with anyone else

It's not just a seller-buyer relationship and their are other historical and future considerations

If Pakistan wanted something
The Chinese would give us the best price they possibly can, especially if their is mutual gain to keep mutual enemies at bay


Every weapon system has a price
The Chinese give us great "friend" deals.
Then it's up to Pakistan accept/deny/defer etc etc
And if we really really want something, the money will be found


Nuclear subs for Pakistan are INEVITABLE,it's just a matter of time

Money is always a consideration, but for national defence, the money will be found

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

6 is an overkill for PN

You guys thought 230+ "Raptors of the East" were an overkill for Pakistan until 27-02-2019.

2019: "Aaj agar Rafale hota, to India ki itni baseti na hoti." Surrender Modi.

2025: "Hum nay siraf Masjido par hamla kya tha, lekin un ki fauj nay pooray India ko phhenti laga di?" Surrender Modi

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Youre poor . So you dont have nuclear sub technology.

You have more poor people than all of Africa put together.

It would be very strange for a declared nuclear power not to have nuclear submarine technology, don't you think Sick Man of Asia?

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

You have 15 airbases, we bombed 12.

Look inward,

What did you "bomb" in those 12 air bases?

And, what did Pakistan bomb in India's 34 military bases?

Why did India's External Affairs Minister ran away after announcing cease-fire?

 

[CallSignMaverick]

You have more poor people than all of Africa put together.

Thats a really lame copium

 

[Mav3rick]

IN will operate 18 P8i Poseidons, 9 C-295 MRMR and 15 MQ-9B SeaGuardians for anti-submarine warfare in medium term. Apart from that 24 MH-60R Romeos. So even if IN lags in submarine numbers, it does have a highly formidable anti-submarine warfare capability no one can match in the region.

Also, not all submarines operated by PN would be at sea. Many would be undergoing scheduled maintenance and repairs and will be sitting ducks due to their shear size and proximity to international borders. Last year 3 out of 5 PN subs were out of sea.

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Not to mention, PN aviation's ASW aircrafts like ATR-72 and Sea Sultans are fairly large aircrafts. Making them highly vulnerable to get hit on ground with supersonic cruise missiles once they get detected by Indian ISR assets. India obviously in case of an all out war will try to take out enemy assets on ground. Even Iran did it with USA. But that requires persistent ISR, most of which is being covered under 3rd phase of Space Based Surveillance (SBS Phase-3) with 52 new satellites for $3.2 billion.

We will surprise you......whenever you transgress, whenever you trespass and whenever you overplay your hand, we will surprise you.....on Land, in the Air, on and under Waters.

The most prudent decision would be to stop picking on your much smaller neighbour thinking it weak just because of your inferiority complex and religious extremism. Extend decent relations and we will surprise you at that too; if in doubt, ask Indians how we treat them when they visit Pakistan.