India’s long submarine journey: What went wrong and the plan ahead

[ChineseTiger1986]

You need to get out of this mindset that china will give you what you desire
China thankfully does not see India as a rival any.more
Only USA is it's genuine rival

Your on your own versis India
Saudi Turkey islamic NATO
Or china are not going to equip or arm you to fight India

Everything you get will.be business only transactions

It will NOT be free aid like USA gives Israel to fight Arabs or NATO gives Ukraine

China this ...china that .china will .

Nothing .
You will be sold subs or missles and planes as business not to keep india in check as china sees India as no threat anymore

And the kicker on my point your
ability to buy... acquire ..absorb chinease weapons is limited to your ability to finance or maintain loan payments

This is why you have only
20 J10 not 100 that you desire
Frigates only rather than the type 52d destroyers which china builds in dozens each year
No nuke subs despite your claim they build them like hot cakes

You get the export stuff on soft loans only

These are the 10,000+ tons SSN hulls that China has launched within the first 5 months of 2026.



If the smaller more obsolete Type 093B production line gonna be discontinued, then it can be re-directed to Pakistan.

Since the Hangor class is already equivalent to the Type 039B, and China has not strived to improve its conventional subs since it decides to go full nuclear sub fleet.

The Type 039C is not going to be much upgraded compared to the the current Hangor class.

There is nothing more suitable as the 7000-8000 tons class SSN like Type 093B for the Pakistan navy in the 2030s.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

China has already rejected pak request for nuke submarines. Costs a billion dollars each and millions more to maintain. Pak doesnt have money or capabilityfor either,

Saudi and other Gulf nations will also provide the fund to Pakistan.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

They always have plans but not the capability.

In 1999, they finalised plans to build 24 submarines by 2030 but they have built only 6.

The same story with their LCA Flying Rickshaw.

They have still obtained the nuclear subs with the help from Russia and western countries.

The balance should not be completely tilted.

China and Pakistan will discuss for the post-Hangor project.

 

[nahtanbob]

Saudi and other Gulf nations will also provide the fund to Pakistan.

why do they need to? China has trillion plus reserves

 

[nahtanbob]

IN will operate 18 P8i Poseidons, 9 C-295 MRMR and 15 MQ-9B SeaGuardians for anti-submarine warfare in medium term. Apart from that 24 MH-60R Romeos. So even if IN lags in submarine numbers, it does have a highly formidable anti-submarine warfare capability no one can match in the region.

Also, not all submarines operated by PN would be at sea. Many would be undergoing scheduled maintenance and repairs and will be sitting ducks due to their shear size and proximity to international borders. Last year 3 out of 5 PN subs were out of sea.

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Doesn't India have 12 P-8s? Not sure if there was a follow up order

Not to mention, PN aviation's ASW aircrafts like ATR-72 and Sea Sultans are fairly large aircrafts. Making them highly vulnerable to get hit on ground with supersonic cruise missiles once they get detected by Indian ISR assets. India obviously in case of an all out war will try to take out enemy assets on ground. Even Iran did it with USA. But that requires persistent ISR, most of which is being covered under 3rd phase of Space Based Surveillance (SBS Phase-3) with 52 new satellites for $3.2 billion.

Are the ATR-72 and Sea Sultans larger than P-8s

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

why do they need to? China has trillion plus reserves

Because KSA is always the party that getting involved in China-Pakistan arm deal.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

What kind of ridiculously stupid Indian narrative is this

Why????? Would china laugh????


Pakistan has very strong relations with a number of countries

China is out main partner
Turkey and the Turkic world is another
We have alliances with many GCC states and establishing close relations with many others


China is a seller,
Because of the close relationship with Pakistan, Pakistan has access to things others don't
China will and has helped us do things, that it won't do with anyone else

It's not just a seller-buyer relationship and their are other historical and future considerations

If Pakistan wanted something
The Chinese would give us the best price they possibly can, especially if their is mutual gain to keep mutual enemies at bay


Every weapon system has a price
The Chinese give us great "friend" deals.
Then it's up to Pakistan accept/deny/defer etc etc
And if we really really want something, the money will be found


Nuclear subs for Pakistan are INEVITABLE,it's just a matter of time

Money is always a consideration, but for national defence, the money will be found

India hopes that China can 100% focus to confront the US and its allies, then it can backstab China from the back.

If the Virginia-equivalent Type 093B can be provided to Pakistan, then it can be used to hunt down the Indian SSBN from its bastion zone which is the Bay of Bengal.

It should be a win-win for China and Pakistan to neutralize the Indian underwater threat.

 

[harpy1]

Pakistan in the last two decades
Has received one new Hangor submarine...

The Agosta they have came 20 years ago

In contrast in last decade

India has inducted six Scorpene submarines predecessor to the Agosta

And inducted three nuclear armed Arihant class submarines with fourth one imminent

I think we are inducting far quicker than Pakistan and better ships

Lets not compare to China they have five times our resources

 

[harpy1]

If we repeat this trend of decade

We will.induct

6/9 German 212 submarines SSK

And

Start production of the next giant nuclear attack submarines induction starting 2035 with 4 new 13k tonnes super submarines as follow on from Arihant

 

[Big_Strong_Brother_India]

Pakistan in the last two decades
Has received one new Hangor submarine...

The Agosta they have came 20 years ago

In contrast in last decade

India has inducted six Scorpene submarines predecessor to the Agosta

And inducted three nuclear armed submarine with fourth one imminent

I think we are inducting far quicker than Pakistan and better ships

Lets not compare to China they have five times our resources

& the latest induction after 2 decades is just an old kilo design with a noisy AIP. The structural & performance limit still persist. Sensor suit are a generation behind, noise levels worse than an improved kilo.

 

[TAC]

Cope what? That we only have nuclear submaribes and not cheap chinese subs?

Let me help explain, after your ‘mighty’ IAF getting its butt kicked so publicly and repeatedly, 2019 & 2025, reducing your officials including shameless AC to spout blatant and comical lies to hide their blushes, you guys have no choice but to now tout your equally ‘mighty’ navy. Since it didn’t dare come out play in ill conceived Sindoor therefore escaped same humiliation as your sad excuse of an AF - it gives you badly needed ‘cope’. Hope that helps.