Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[Khorasan Black Flags]

old but gold:

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[KingQamaR]

Good logic detected. Many on PDF will still be confused hy this easy but solid logic.
US will enter a big inextricable mess if it strikes iran- it can't get itself out of its losing Ukraine war and takes for granted that it was able to run away from Afghanistan after losing there for 20 years. Neo colonialism will easily end the empire if it goes back to it now in a militaristic way.

US tried fought for 20 years in Afghanistan, spent ; trillion dollars , lost, Do they want to try another 20 Years against Houthis ? When will Us learn lessons?

 

[lightning f57]

US tried fought for 20 years in Afghanistan, spent ; trillion dollars , lost, Do they want to try another 20 Years against Houthis ? When will Us learn lessons?

Im reality its a small group of rich folk who benefit from this not the US as a whole, hence why we see the irationality but that becomes rationale when you follow the money trail.

 

[KingQamaR]

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GPS is easy to jam, it won’t work with military grade navigation as they have alternatives systems. But it will make it dangerous for commercial shipping and flights.

 

[KingQamaR]

Im reality its a small group of rich folk who benefit from this not the US as a whole, hence why we see the irationality but that becomes rationale when you follow the money trail.

Yup! Their politicians & weapon industries make money from this. And it’s about American Elites obeying Zionist master.

 

[lightning f57]

Yup! Their politicians & weapon industries make money from this. And it’s about American Elites obeying Zionist master.

Two reasons why they obey the zionists, money and the religious nut jobs waiting for the rapture.

 

[KingQamaR]

Two reasons why they obey the zionists, money and the religious nut jobs waiting for the rapture.

America has been a prostitute to AIPAC.

 

[Hack-Hook]

The parliament passed a bill to restart the program in 2018, by designing a new reactor which produces less amount of plutonium as a biproduct, but the system is corrupt to the bone at this point. IR-40 was one of the key cards of Iran in JCPOA and it was given in return for nothing.

Enriching 13 tones of uranium to 3.5% wont' take that much time with Iran's 10,000 SWU/kg? lol Again, either you are absolutely misinformed about nuclear technology or you're lying through your teeth as usual (speaking like a true reformist in Ahvaz).

Isn't Ahvaz the same city where they chanted "اگر هوا نداریم اما هوات رو داریم"? Pathetic. Ahvaz is like the California of Iran. Full of liberals who don't understand they're being played by the system.

wrong enriching 3.5% uranium to higher percentage wont take that much time

 

[Hack-Hook]

Unfortunately true but still doesn't relieve Zarif and the Rouhani administration from their responsibilities in negotiating a bad deal. The JCPOA is a horrible agreement because it placed all implementation responsibilities on Iran alone without assigning a mechanism to hold the rest of signatories to account if and when they absconded on their obligations.

funny everyone and every-side says it was a bad deal

 

[Tijani]

funny everyone and every-side says it was a bad deal

It IS a bad deal for Iran. At on that there's a consensus.

 

[Hack-Hook]

It IS a bad deal for Iran. At on that there's a consensus.

Trump and BiBi also think its a bad deal.
its a bad deal only if Iran want to make nukes but as Iran times and times stated it has to plan to make any nuke I'd like to knew why you think its a bad deal?

 

[Urvan]

Trump and BiBi also think its a bad deal.
its a bad deal only if Iran want to make nukes but as Iran times and times stated it has to plan to make any nuke I'd like to knew why you think its a bad deal?

It is a bad deal, and Iran's leadership has a bad strategy, perhaps isn't even fully invested in the well-being of the nation. If it was, it would not compromise on deterrence, especially nuclear deterrence.

The reason Iran went down this path of indecision and half-hearted effort vis-a-vis the nuclear issues is manifold. Foremost, there is a large contingent of Iranian politicians, tied to neoliberal oligarchs in Iran that have ties to the West, to banking elites, and have many family members and moreover property in the West, and these priorities matter more to them than the wealth and well-being of Iran. This is what people mean when they say Iran's system is corrupt. Much like the Shah's family pilfered the nation, The Islamic Republic's liberal wing is exactly like this as well.

Secondly, these receptive elements are compromised by Western intelligence agencies. There are willing avenues for compromise in Iran because of the nature of the system- the infighting, the corruption, the lack of opportunity, the lack of economic power- all of these make it lucrative for Iranians up and down the ladder of power to make deals with enemies of Iran for their own gain. Why do you think so many Iranian people who get a doctorate or engineering degree go to Canada or the USA?

Thirdly, Khamenei is a balancer. He's not an ideologue. He has to keep up appearances while playing a game of chess to ensure his power and that of his clan/cronies are intact, and this means playing off the various centers of power within the system against each other. He knows the liberals have their ties to Western intelligence, and they have their contingency plans should the hardliners take over, or worse, should Khamenei decide to threaten their interests. Likewise, he knows the hardliners have ways to assert themselves, too. He has to balance his power and the sustainability of the system as a whole in this context, while also ensuring society is ordered and stable enough for it all not to go to hell in a handbasket. This creates a situation of deadlock, inertia, malaise and decay.

Fourthly, masses in general are unthinking, self-interested, and suggestible. There are many Iranians in Iran right now, most of which do not know a think about regional or international politics, or how to govern a country or manage an economy. There are Iranian politicians in survival mode, thinking of the next ten or twenty years. Iran's enemies think of the next 100 or 200 years. In the case of Israel, its messianic ruling elite thinks in terms of 1,000 years. Your average Iranian citizen is thinking of bread right now, a little hal-kardan, and maybe a nicer house or apartment. The Islamic Republic should have thrown them the bone of the non-mandatory hijab and other unimportant amenities to keep them satisfied, but it couldn't- hardliners saw that as a dangerous precedent, liberals saw it as an opportunity to demand more concessions, uproot the existing order and place themselves at the top. The key here is: no one in the system is thinking about Iran. They are thinking about their goals, their power, their assets, and their foreign backers. And the Iranian people themselves- the majority- are not thinking about the future of the country. If they were, they'd make common cause with the many in the armed forces and other government institutions that are seeing the country flinging at high speed toward oblivion and are frustrated. This is because sanctions, foreign influence, and the immiseration of daily life under mismanagement of the Islamic Republic has rendered people apathetic, helpless, and hopeless. They'd rather abandon the sinking ship that try to plug the holes.

I do not digress, I make a central point here. Neither the leaders nor the people of Iran are invested enough in a real way into the nation. This nuclear issue would have been a no-brainer, a done deal by now. Leadership decided to use it as a bargaining chip and not gone for it. This is because they aren't serious about the nation, caught up in the squabbles of their own purposes and intra-system conflict. "How much can we gain from the West?" At some point, you realize there's no point to this, enough damage has been done and you cannot crawl out of the hole- at some point, you decide the best and only choice is to go full-speed toward the nuclear weapon and at least attain the deterrence your people have suffered for decades for.

Accepting the deal was bad for Iran by all counts. Maybe not "bad" if you think in the short-term, or are divorced from the reality of Iran's enemies and geopolitical position, it's history even. But in the long stretch and at the root, accepting any deal that puts Iran's deterrence and survival on hold for any stretch of time is a bad deal, and it's a testament to the failures of Iran's system.

 

[Khorasan Black Flags]

It is a bad deal, and Iran's leadership has a bad strategy, perhaps isn't even fully invested in the well-being of the nation. If it was, it would not compromise on deterrence, especially nuclear deterrence.

The reason Iran went down this path of indecision and half-hearted effort vis-a-vis the nuclear issues is manifold. Foremost, there is a large contingent of Iranian politicians, tied to neoliberal oligarchs in Iran that have ties to the West, to banking elites, and have many family members and moreover property in the West, and these priorities matter more to them than the wealth and well-being of Iran. This is what people mean when they say Iran's system is corrupt. Much like the Shah's family pilfered the nation, The Islamic Republic's liberal wing is exactly like this as well.

Secondly, these receptive elements are compromised by Western intelligence agencies. There are willing avenues for compromise in Iran because of the nature of the system- the infighting, the corruption, the lack of opportunity, the lack of economic power- all of these make it lucrative for Iranians up and down the ladder of power to make deals with enemies of Iran for their own gain. Why do you think so many Iranian people who get a doctorate or engineering degree go to Canada or the USA?

Thirdly, Khamenei is a balancer. He's not an ideologue. He has to keep up appearances while playing a game of chess to ensure his power and that of his clan/cronies are intact, and this means playing off the various centers of power within the system against each other. He knows the liberals have their ties to Western intelligence, and they have their contingency plans should the hardliners take over, or worse, should Khamenei decide to threaten their interests. Likewise, he knows the hardliners have ways to assert themselves, too. He has to balance his power and the sustainability of the system as a whole in this context, while also ensuring society is ordered and stable enough for it all not to go to hell in a handbasket. This creates a situation of deadlock, inertia, malaise and decay.

Fourthly, masses in general are unthinking, self-interested, and suggestible. There are many Iranians in Iran right now, most of which do not know a think about regional or international politics, or how to govern a country or manage an economy. There are Iranian politicians in survival mode, thinking of the next ten or twenty years. Iran's enemies think of the next 100 or 200 years. In the case of Israel, its messianic ruling elite thinks in terms of 1,000 years. Your average Iranian citizen is thinking of bread right now, a little hal-kardan, and maybe a nicer house or apartment. The Islamic Republic should have thrown them the bone of the non-mandatory hijab and other unimportant amenities to keep them satisfied, but it couldn't- hardliners saw that as a dangerous precedent, liberals saw it as an opportunity to demand more concessions, uproot the existing order and place themselves at the top. The key here is: no one in the system is thinking about Iran. They are thinking about their goals, their power, their assets, and their foreign backers. And the Iranian people themselves- the majority- are not thinking about the future of the country. If they were, they'd make common cause with the many in the armed forces and other government institutions that are seeing the country flinging at high speed toward oblivion and are frustrated. This is because sanctions, foreign influence, and the immiseration of daily life under mismanagement of the Islamic Republic has rendered people apathetic, helpless, and hopeless. They'd rather abandon the sinking ship that try to plug the holes.

I do not digress, I make a central point here. Neither the leaders nor the people of Iran are invested enough in a real way into the nation. This nuclear issue would have been a no-brainer, a done deal by now. Leadership decided to use it as a bargaining chip and not gone for it. This is because they aren't serious about the nation, caught up in the squabbles of their own purposes and intra-system conflict. "How much can we gain from the West?" At some point, you realize there's no point to this, enough damage has been done and you cannot crawl out of the hole- at some point, you decide the best and only choice is to go full-speed toward the nuclear weapon and at least attain the deterrence your people have suffered for decades for.

Accepting the deal was bad for Iran by all counts. Maybe not "bad" if you think in the short-term, or are divorced from the reality of Iran's enemies and geopolitical position, it's history even. But in the long stretch and at the root, accepting any deal that puts Iran's deterrence and survival on hold for any stretch of time is a bad deal, and it's a testament to the failures of Iran's system.

@Musings @Waz this guy is permanently banned @KHORSHIDSIYAH1488

 

[Urvan]

@Musings @Waz this guy is permanently banned @KHORSHIDSIYAH1488

Is this how you are in life/work?

You disagree with someone and you have to figuratively kill them? What happened to being mature? What happened to accepting that life doesn't always go by your terms?

I'm not here to argue with you, and you should be better than to try to delete someone for not getting along with you. You're not entitled the agreement or appreciation of others. I don't have to like you, and you don't have to like me. The difference between us is that I don't care about that. I accept that. You care, you care a lot. So much so that the sight of someone who you don't like and who doesn't like you threatens you to the point that you have to force everyone else to tend to your emotions.

@Persian Gulf please set this guy straight, he's a detriment to this community as a whole- not because of his ideology, but because of his inability to be mature. @Musings and @Waz I implore you to apply an even hand and stick to the spirit of moderation.

 

[Persian Gulf]

Yes, but that isn't leaving the NPT. It's violating the NPT. As soon as Iran does that, they will understand that Iran wants to build the bomb and Iran's case will be immediately referred to the UN Security Council.

this is in response to full snapback of all UNSC resolutions and sanctions

so that in case it is a response to Iran's case returning to the UNSC already