Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[Persian Gulf]

From real political perspective everybody is under US sphere of influence and you can not disregard closer relations with your closest neighbors because of it, your approach of open confrontation is not for everybody, on the other hand you have more common denominators and share of mutual interests to broaden cooperation.
Principled but economically weak and regionally isolated Iran can not help itself not to speak about grander goals, in that sense this newly axis SA, Turkiye and Pakistan should be great opportunity to take some time out for recuperation and be side silent partner of them how to contain jewish hegemony and control in region.
I mean it is either that or prolonged agony and living under constant threat, Call me crazy but first step in that direction would be sending signals for normalisation of relationship with new syrian governement.

to be clear, I don't think the impediment to this plan of yours is Iran. it is intrinsic limits on the sovereignty of those other nations.

but other than that, I agree with a lot of what you say

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

My opinion is based on assumption that Iran survives current upcoming onslaught, this stalemate for them is not workable they need more space and goodwill in region for their own sake. Frankly jews made it easier more then ever opening lot of common ground for almost all regional countries.

Short of a large scale land invasion that is very painful for the invading army there isn't much except coercion that can prompt a collapse.
For a layman it should be abundantly clear that if they're leaving their home for a vague abstract cause... sat in assumptions and slogans...they're pawns! If they're not getting paid for their service than... free pawns!

The regional states must open land routes, movement of goods and services among themselves so they are not hostage to foreign financial meddling. And export is ideally something that is either found in abundance, value add is within reasonable cost of labor and energy, can be easily and swiftly shipped to closest markets.

That will again spur economic and cultural activities regionally and once and for all untie the gordian knot of cultural and economic export from the collective.

 

[PakAl]

PLO sold out and became the Palestinian Authority, the administrator of the Israeli occupation in the West Bank and Gaza. It's why groups like Hamas and PIJ rose in the first place. Your knowledge of history is poor and your worldview is impacted negatively by Wahhabi propaganda that has been poisoning you for decades.

Hamas is not supported by Iran, its all propaganda, only their interests align so they give political and moral support. Definitely wahhabi propaganda at its work, Saudis consider Hamas as a terrorist organisation, behind the scenes are encouraging Israel to finish the Job, meanwhile pouring crocodile tears in front of the media.

 

[PakAl]

View attachment 174302

sure

Some people cannot stop giving false information. The Saudis consider Hamas as a terrorist organisation, they are encouraging Israel to destroy Hamas but shedding crocodile tears on media. The helpers of the zionist point fingers at others, hilarious.

 

[VCheng]

Hamas is not supported by Iran, its all propaganda, only their interests align so they give political and moral support.

Even if we accept that at face value as you have stated, it does not help Iran in any geopolitical way to be seen as the provider of political and moral support to many such entitles that are seen as terrorists by Iran's neighbors.

Bud sey budnaam bura.

 

[PakAl]

one day all muslim would know that all these ISIS and al qaida was mossad and CIA planned organizations to show and use them as an excuse for attacking muslim countries and at the same time create a bad image for islam and muslims

Unfortunately Muslims are and I will use a good word rather than a bad word "gullible", they get tricked and deceived in to believing all the fake jihadi fatwas and revolutions. The propaganda and deception is great, almost dajjali type of deception. Muslims must establish basic principles in life in order to save themselves such as do not ever support war against Muslims and reject those who cause chaos and violence. Just one point, one propaganda against Assad was his followers call him god, today the same propaganda is being used against the Kurds that they call themselves as gods, the zionist agents with beards repeat their tactics and propaganda, it also works.

 

[Indos]

you (Indonesian rape regime and their supporter) are the one that carried out a genocidal occupation of East Timor for 25 years, which involved systematic torture and rape

and you are here lecturing Iranians?

beyond parody.

East Timor genocide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Timor-Leste: Victims of killings, rape and torture deserve justice

Perpetrators of killings and other human rights abuses during the Indonesian occupation of Timor-Leste must not be allowed to go unpunished, Amnesty International said as the UN Security Council was due to meet in New York to finalize withdrawal of the UN peacekeeping mission. Indonesian...

www.amnesty.org

But we do reform right. We allow East Timor to vote whether to be indepent or not in 1999 after we can press Soeharto to resign. Actually it is only university students that do the protest, but Soeharto and his backer (including Indonesian military) understand that the course should be changed and it is the time to embrace real democracy.

Now it is Iranian time, whether they wants to reform or stay its own course

Not me to decide, I only can give advice as I also hope Iran can be better economically and politically

 

[PakAl]

They already do, dont let them deceive you and never trust them. For them the greatest threat is Iran and not their sister Israel. I am talking about GCC, not others. Bashar al Assad was a secular arab nationalist but they still didnt spare him from kufaar fatwas, they did the same with Gaddafi and Saddam. Anyone who opposes them or is not their puppet faces their full wrath.

 

[PakAl]

Even if we accept that at face value as you have stated, it does not help Iran in any geopolitical way to be seen as the provider of political and moral support to many such entitles that are seen as terrorists by Iran's neighbors.

Bud sey budnaam bura.

Hamas was at first supported by all arabs and GCC, but with MB coming to power the relations broke down with Saudis since Saudis only want puppets. After this Hamas and MB were declared as terrorists. Turkey and Iran continue to give support to Hamas. It may not look good on Iran but that's their policy. Who funds and trains ISIS/AlQaida operatives? I am sure they dont fall from the skies.

 

[VCheng]

Hamas was at first supported by all arabs and GCC, but with MB coming to power the relations broke down with Saudis since Saudis only want puppets. After this Hamas and MB were declared as terrorists. Turkey and Iran continue to give support to Hamas. It may not look good on Iran but that's their policy. Who funds and trains ISIS/AlQaida operatives? I am sure they dont fall from the skies.

Well, Hamas is pretty much history, it seems, at this point. Where Iran goes from here onwards is the more important question relevant to this thread.

 

[Indos]

Hamas was at first supported by all arabs and GCC, but with MB coming to power the relations broke down with Saudis since Saudis only want puppets. After this Hamas and MB were declared as terrorists. Turkey and Iran continue to give support to Hamas. It may not look good on Iran but that's their policy. Who funds and trains ISIS/AlQaida operatives? I am sure they dont fall from the skies.

ISIS/ AQ are those who cannot really understand Quran. Mostly people with black and white thingking, lack of intelligent will get lured to this

This people are not few, you can see people like this in PDF but with different ideology

It is already happening since Caliph period right. Khawarij

Something that unavoidable, we can only limit their action

Just avoid this group to get to leadership position ( I dont talk only with those with Wahaby ideology....)

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

In order to attain power , across history small pockets of group are formed
which grow over time , and gather resources, it is a natural way how human clans /tribes have gathered power

Modern times names have been "invented" to single out certain group as illegal or not normal , but there is no difference between such group and any other "Power desiring group"

It is just means to attain power

Post Iraq war , group of People came out of Poverty picked up arms as means to change their life outcome , one can argue if no wars took place they would have gone to school and had jobs , and a different life

The group that holds on power , always calls these smaller pockets of power seeker as names as Terrorist , or Trouble makers

Historical Evidence

• Native American resistance was often called "Savages" or "None Human"
• Geronimo a famous Native American was called Terrorist and he remained out of reach of Americans for long periods
• French Colonizers called Algerian freedom fighters as Terrorist
• British Colonizers called 1857 Mutiny in Sub Continent (India-Pakistan-Bangladesh) as act of terrorism , people were shot with bullets
• India calls Burhan Wani a Kashmiri Sepretist as Terrorist

Colonizing forces often call the Natives as Terrorist, it is often means to allow moral authority for own Soldiers or Troops to kill the Natives


The natural flow of power is being controlled artificially in Middle east with Proxy States to prevent locals to attain power

• Any opposing movement is called Terrorist or Khawariji (One who left Islam)

Definition of Khawariji is one who is away from Islamic teaching and commits killing for sake of pleasure


But today we see many states actively beating up their own citizens and amassing wealth , and committing all sort of human right violation, so it makes it very difficult for anyone to know who is Khawarji or not


An Islamic State , is a Hypothetical Perfect world which has never existed in Human history after Passing of Prophet Mohammad

• However even in during prophet Mohammad's time there was war and conflict

In Muslim Faith : (This is normal)
It is illegal for you to not self defend your life and that of your family
There is no Law that forbids defending your own Nation
You are meant to stop Aggressors

This Universal aspect of Humanity are shared in general by all human tribes or clans , a right to exist (All Humans do this)


Genocide , is something that should trigger a Universal Response from Muslim world but we live in a time when Muslim Leaders prefer to attend Board of Peace meetings with Nations who supplied all the bombs to aggressor Israel

• Now this is 100% not allowed in Islamic faith
• Islamic faith asks you to go help the one suffering , not go celebrate in board of peace and clap and smile , while Palestinians are living in tents and under Rubble of buildings destroyed by bombs provided from invaders

Now the focus is Iran same , arguments and same illusions



The one who holds the weapon often decides , what is Khawariji or what is not, history is forged by people holding weapons

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

ISIS/ AQ are those who cannot really understand Quran. Mostly people with black and white thingking, lack of intelligent will get lured to this

This people are not few, you can see people like this in PDF but with different ideology

It is already happening since Caliph period right. Khawarij

Something that unavoidable, we can only limit their action

Just avoid this group to get to leadership position ( I dont talk only with those with Wahaby ideology....)

Im 42 years old, I still have not understand, what holy Quran and namaz has to do with:
(these were the values of our Prophet PBUH, even before he declared his faith!)
1. not telling lies
2. not exploiting those below you
3. giving chance to those who deserve (in other words, dont rig system!)
4. dont pollute any system
5. population control
6. remaining illiterate
7. helping orphans
8. propelling betting in every business deal


these are called civilities in any educated place

if you believe otherwise, then, you dont belong in a civilized society

 

[r3alist]

The answer to all your questions is YES. As for the leverage, I already said how.

Iran didn't even put a dent on Isreal? That's why the media blackout happened right?

I consider the 12 day war a defeat. Not because Israel didn't take losses but because of the strategic implications in the aftermath of the ceasefire. As for Iran did nothing to Israel, Now that sounds like sumfin a shite eating Indian would say. Are you one?

There might yet still be some intelligence to iran's approach, they clearly sent a message and you could argue that back then was the optimal time since Israel was facing global scrutiny for Gaza.

It is difficult to say

Right now the equation effectively has become a binary, Israel will not relent until regime change or collapse, Iran has been playing the nuclear game for a long time but even if trump did not actually slow down the nuclear program that was the terms of the temporary ceasefire.

So if you contradict this then trump has his reason to go hard, even as an embarrassment to him


That to me suggests using nuclear enrichment as a tool is not on the table for Iran

At this moment maximum pressure is on Iran, and everything becomes difficult to do as well as a worsening situation economically, therefore it looks difficult for Iran to even manage an internal regime change on Iranian terms, the major hope for current Iranian government is the big Chinese shipments coming through, which would change the equation for American intervention maybe maybe best case
It's changing the American calculus which is most important now

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Im 42 years old, I still have not understand, what holy Quran and namaz has to do with:
(these were the values of our Prophet PBUH, even before he declared his faith!)
1. not telling lies
2. not exploiting those below you
3. giving chance to those who deserve (in other words, dont rig system!)
4. dont pollute any system
5. population control
6. remaining illiterate
7. helping orphans
8. propelling betting in every business deal


these are called civilities in any educated place

if you believe otherwise, then, you dont belong in a civilized society

Unfortunately during war time one can't practice the basic things a person does that is why it becomes mandatory to protect your country

If a invader is continuing to be an aggressor you have to self defend your interest otherwise look at Palestine

Where are all the Human Rights Bodies? Powerless
Where is UN? Powerless
In end it is the people of Nation who stand up to stop an aggressor
Who is feeding the orphans? or Ensuring they have shelter? In Palestine
Do they have water or food? In Palestine


Under , peace yes of course you focus on Matter of Civil life, the points you mention , are all perfectly admirable qualities


When war is on your head , it is only "your will" to hold weapons and defend your ground is what ensures you and your family have future

• This desire to preserve your identity is universal aspect in all humans, this is normally why nations have Army (hopefully one that does not goes and sells you out )

There is a different code of conduct for War
> When war is imposed on you then you follow the rules defined in Muslim faith to protect your country , your family , your religion

I don't think Islamic value or teaching ask you to be passive
(Statement applicable to Muslim Nations facing war)

And almost 100% it does not say build casinos over dead bodies of Muslims and their cities