Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[vizier]

There is a video circulating everywhere where Ukranian FPV drone took down a Russian Ka-52 and doube tapped the crew.

They didnt focus on manpads but their 358/359 are beast. I hope they have provided them to axis in numbers.

358 is very good against drones and to an extent medium altitude flying aircraft but it is hard to conceal and transfer so they are limited in numbers in Iraq. They have sufficient numbers in Iran and a10s wont be an issue there.
Manpads are good against low flying targets like a10s and helicopters and very easy to transfer and hide in buildings cars etc just like atgms.
fpv is good against land vehicles, infantry and to a limited degree slow flying helicopters. All must be produced in high quantities which is not very difficult for Iran.

Anti cruise missile needs a quicker reaction time than human control to guide the missiles so 358 wont cut it. Cheapest way I can think of is use the iir ground vehicle sensor of 358 to detect cruise missiles and an operator with EO guidance can paint the target with laser. A laser guided manpad can hit it. Infrared guided manpads can also hit cruise missiles if they get a lock on them but missile sensors would be more sophisticated. New igla variants can do it but Iran does not have them in numbers.

 

[MS Sandhu]

It will look even worse when Houthies reactivate the attacks over them.

Houthis are somewhat reluctant to close strait of bab al mandeb.

Do not why.

 

[Optical216]

This is what happened in Vietnam where the Americans wont virtually every battle, but strategically lost the war and had to retreat.

I would even argue Iran is giving alot of losses to US in the battle

First the whole IADS in middle east is dusted(radars and air defence of centcom)
Next AFM is reporting there are Atleast 20 us aircraft losses
Next they destroyed the prestige of f35
Next they are destroying every us base in the region
Next reportedly downed 15-20% of MQ9 Fleet


Next exposed US Navy's well incomeptence regarding the maintainence of the carriers(ford will take 14 months to recover)


They're punching way above their weight honestly

 

[PakFactor]

You may wish to double check this. Look I am no fan of Israel but if we are going to have discussions it has be based on factual information not hearsay or dismissing research with one liners without any factual source.
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Many forget that during last year's engagement between Israel and Hezbollah, the IDF focused intense bombardment on the Baalbek-Hermel Governorate (Beeka Valley), considered the storage location of the group's arsenal. This also led to the Hezbollah group being cut off from any resupply attempts from Syria. This further eroded their fighting capability.

Lastly, many in this PDF joked that the IDF didn't penetrate deeply into Southern Lebanon, previously. Still, they failed to see Israeli strategy, in taking high points, hills, and mountains, and calling in strikes to level Hezbollah, and preserving their troops. It took the Gaza strategy and applied it to Lebanon. [My post regarding this should still be in the Lebanon War Thread, or it was in my conversations with @LeGenD ]

As said before, the current Israel is a far different Israel from the old; it's shed its skin and isn't restrained. It has cemented its role as the dominant regional power.

 

[MS Sandhu]

This is what happened in Vietnam where the Americans wont virtually every battle, but strategically lost the war and had to retreat.

Israel has been bombing Lebanon for decades now and has not been able to deter HZ

Yes Mojtaba carries much bigger responsibility for nation at home than HZ, and can't afford HZ like rocket approach but still Israel/US bombing compaign can't deter Iran if they wish to pursue their policies at whatever the cost.

 

[MH.Yang]

I see some Iranians still believing in what Trump said about 'negotiations'. That's really childish and foolish.

During the Korean War, negotiations between China and the United States began on July 10, 1951 and ended on July 27, 1953. During the two-year negotiation period, the two sides still engaged in over two thousand regimental level and above scale wars. China has killed 1.09 million United Nations troops, including those from the United States and South Korea. Only when the United States bears a huge blow and sees soberly that they cannot bear the continuation of the war, will they willingly sign the ceasefire agreement.

Those naive Iranians, if you think that negotiations with the United States can achieve a ceasefire now, you will definitely be disappointed. It must be another scam.

The world will see you fall into the same trap again and again. If you really want peace, then you should first use war to prove that you have the ability to protect your own interests. What cannot be obtained on the battlefield can never be obtained at the negotiation table.

 

[MS Sandhu]

Iran should have built more manpads(10000+) but it seems just like anti cruise missile shorad defense they did produce some prototypes and in limited numbers and then feel good and content about it and didnt think more about the possibilities and situations like enemy gaining total air superiority over Iran. But these manpads can be produced underground easily just like fpv drones that can be the good part about the evolving situation.

If we go by the latest videos released by Iran, they have significantly mass produced SAMs
In my opinion, the problem is tracking.
US/Isr pick up the electronic signals of radars and destroy them instantly given the fire power they bring to the battlefield.

Only survivable and effective items so far are passive sensors i.e EO/IR stuff.

 

[Musings]

I see some Iranians still believing in what Trump said about 'negotiations'. That's really childish and foolish.

During the Korean War, negotiations between China and the United States began on July 10, 1951 and ended on July 27, 1953. During the two-year negotiation period, the two sides still engaged in over two thousand regimental level and above scale wars. China has killed 1.09 million United Nations troops, including those from the United States and South Korea. Only when the United States bears a huge blow and sees soberly that they cannot bear the continuation of the war, will they willingly sign the ceasefire agreement.

Those naive Iranians, if you think that negotiations with the United States can achieve a ceasefire now, you will definitely be disappointed. It must be another scam.

The world will see you fall into the same trap again and again. If you really want peace, then you should first use war to prove that you have the ability to protect your own interests. What cannot be obtained on the battlefield can never be obtained at the negotiation table.

Clearly when one side says we are having fruitful negotiations and will stop the bombing - and the other side says we dont know what the fukc he is on about - we have an issue. Maybe its to replenish and re energize the troops - maybe its to manipulate the markets. One thing is for certain Trump is a lying bastard.

 

[ety]

I see some Iranians still believing in what Trump said about 'negotiations'. That's really childish and foolish.

During the Korean War, negotiations between China and the United States began on July 10, 1951 and ended on July 27, 1953. During the two-year negotiation period, the two sides still engaged in over two thousand regimental level and above scale wars. China has killed 1.09 million United Nations troops, including those from the United States and South Korea. Only when the United States bears a huge blow and sees soberly that they cannot bear the continuation of the war, will they willingly sign the ceasefire agreement.

Those naive Iranians, if you think that negotiations with the United States can achieve a ceasefire now, you will definitely be disappointed. It must be another scam.

The world will see you fall into the same trap again and again. If you really want peace, then you should first use war to prove that you have the ability to protect your own interests. What cannot be obtained on the battlefield can never be obtained at the negotiation table.

The US instinct is always to use force to solve international conflict, they only resort to negotiations if they can't get away with force. Chinese approach is the opposite, only use force as the last resort.

 

[Gryzor]

I would even argue Iran is giving alot of losses to US in the battle

First the whole IADS in middle east is dusted(radars and air defence of centcom)
Next AFM is reporting there are Atleast 20 us aircraft losses
Next they destroyed the prestige of f35
Next they are destroying every us base in the region
Next reportedly downed 15-20% of MQ9 Fleet


Next exposed US Navy's well incomeptence regarding the maintainence of the carriers(ford will take 14 months to recover)


They're punching way above their weight honestly

Imagine a world where the former IRGC brass didn"t scuttle its own airforce by massively defunding it and killing its every promising podernization project (F-14AM + Fakour to name the most obvious and painful).

Imagine a world where there the IADS drive was initiated a few years before,or better understandings where reached with either China and Russia in parallel to DIO's own work. Like Pakistan or India do. In this field I get that they wanted to rigidly stay the homegrown source and there is a vast array of items that have been produced (from Shorads like Majid to Bavars, + PESA/AESAs etc) but at a way too low production rate. Iran needs anywhere between 50-70 to sufficiently cover its most important sectors efficiently with redundancy in a layered system offering self-protection to batteries and ECCM. Iran has only relatively more recently started to work in this field since the Ballistic force was a priority and with reason.

But considering the urgency of conflict,they should have approached joint development or interim acquisitions from Moscow or Beijing. Maybe these two wars can be an impetus for Tehran to truly act as a BRICS + SCO member asking for its rights. There is massive politicial complexity but dor degensive equipment and apparatus it is possible.

Fighters are another complicated topic.jut not the top priority after we get out of this mess.

What is sad is that iran soes not even need to be at strategic parity in any particular field,noast 250+ jets or 25% of the world's THAADS considering its asymetric infrastructure and strategic depth. A core air defense squadron of 60--80 elite assets doubled with a decent to good ,solid and redundant IADS concentrated in a few important areas of operations can exponentially add to its overall fighting capability. We can do this. Missiles are a given and its downhill from now on. The air-defence wil follow in the coming years.

Btw DDD just dropped a new video. I know his productions have to betaken with a grain os salt,still,there are always informative to a degree .

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[MH.Yang]

The US instinct is always to use force to solve international conflict, they only resort to negotiations if they can't get away with force. Chinese approach is the opposite, only use force as the last resort.

The word 'crisis' in Chinese characters is' 危机', which is composed of two characters. The meaning of "危" is danger, and "机" means opportunity. According to Chinese thinking, in danger there must be opportunities, and in opportunities there must also be hidden dangers.

The United States and Israel launch a war against Iran, the situation is inevitably dangerous. But it also holds the opportunity for Iran to reshape its own country and civilization. Only Iranians who can defeat their external and internal enemies can nurture the rebirth of their country and civilization in iron and blood.

 

[Aggregate]

Israel defacto captured 30% of your country this morning ?

Drum Rolls ... What will Lebanon do ... ?

Expel Iranian Envoy !!

 

[vizier]

If we go by the latest videos released by Iran, they have significantly mass produced SAMs
In my opinion, the problem is tracking.
US/Isr pick up the electronic signals of radars and destroy them instantly given the fire power they bring to the battlefield.

Only survivable and effective items so far are passive sensors i.e EO/IR stuff.

For manpads and 358 systems that has EO/IIR that disadvantage does not exist as you said. For cruise missile defense a low altitude radar might be necessary.A monopulse low power low altitude scanning radar on a small vehicle would be harder to detect and locate than a larger long range radar. Jamming would be an issue though but coupled with EO tracking loss of data can be tolerated in scanning.

IIR scanning can still do it against cruise missles to an extent they still have jet engines and no cooling option of their exhaust. Even if they cool it down from shorter ranges IIR can detect them in point defense.

 

[VCheng]

This is what happened in Vietnam where the Americans wont virtually every battle, but strategically lost the war and had to retreat.

Lack of clear leadership and goals are a disaster for any war, never mind military superiority. Any war can be fought only as well as the purpose for which it is being fought, and that is not entirely clear for USA at this point in time.

This lack of clarity is the real danger for USA. On the other hand, Iran is very clear, consistent and determined in its goals. That alone gives it a huge advantage.

 

[MS Sandhu]

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