Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[BigMela2onin]

Well I'll start by saying that none of the examples you listed "switched sides" after the cold war.

1. All the GCC countries......UAE, SA, Qatar, Bahrain....etc.

These states were literally created by the west, other than an episode of defiance during the oil embargo, they have been firmly in the western camp during their entire existence.

2. The Baltic countries such as Estonia Lithuania, Latvia....etc

First off, these are white europeans so they cannot be compared directly to our situation. This is also more difficult to compare since GDP numbers don't exist prior to the 90s. What we do know is that their populations are declining and expected to continue to decline. Most GDP growth is concentrated in the capitals and outside the main cities they generally remain poor. If you want to recreate the urban-rural divide that factored into the Iranian revolution then it could be a model to follow. Also we will likely see them sacrificed against Russia in the future like Ukraine was.

Population of the Baltic states 1950-2025| Statista

This statistic shows the total population of the three Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania from 1950 to 2025.

www.statista.com

https://osp.stat.gov.lt/en_GB/lietuvos-regionai-2023/ekonomika/ukis-ir-finansai

Tallinn still contributes over half of Estonia's GDP

Estonia's gross domestic product (GDP) at current prices was €38 billion in 2023. Of this, €24 billion was contributed by Harju County, with €19 billion originating from Tallinn, according to data published by Statistics Estonia on Tuesday. GDP per capita was €27,868, an increase of €851...

news.err.ee

Official statistics portal

stat.gov.lv

3. Vietnam, Surinam....and a few others

Vietnam choose to become a manufacturing hub. When I suggested this for Iran, people said it was like being a slave camp, so I'm not sure which it is. Is Vietnam a slave camp or a success? I don't know much about Suriname but it's a nation of 600k people which never "switched sides," it was a Dutch colony and had a civil war but never was an enemy of the west.

Of course, I'm going to leave off the big, obvious ones, such as Ukraine, and Poland.

I'm not sure why you guys keep listing Ukraine? I don't hear that it's a paradise on earth now. Are you suggesting we wipe out a generation of Iranian men fighting Russia for the US? Poland is a success case that occurred in the context of the Cold war (also white and european), which cannot be replicated in Iran.

We don't need to become a vassal state....all we need to do is get the sanctions lifted....we don't need their investments or help. We just need to break the shackles Israel has fashioned for us through the US.

You guys keep talking about getting sanctions lifted, it's not going to happen. It will literally never happen, no rapprochement can occur with the west at all. There is no desire in the west for it at all as Iran has literally nothing to offer the west. Give up enrichment? Ok now we'll sanction you for proxies. Give up proxies? Ok now we'll sanction you for missiles. Give up missiles? Ok now we can bomb you safely. There is no benefit for the west in removing sanctions.
If Iran surrenders like they want, it will be destroyed as an example for resisting.

 

[ShapurII]

My point is Ukraine "surrendered" and was rewarded with racial annihilation as the generation of reproductive age and working age Ukrainian men were annihilated for nothing in return. Not exactly a model for Iran to try to follow.

And you think Russia is innocent in that? I don't get your comment at all. How did Ukraine surrender?
Ukraine made a choice to stop the Russian interference in their country. People wanted to approach the West for more opportunities. Russia had committed genocide in Ukraine during Stalin. Russia used ethnic Russians to create a civil war in Ukraine. If anything, Ukraine refused to surrender to Russia. It's funny how you're trying to twist facts.

They're not asking, PGCC lazy and degenerate sheiks don't want to lose their life of luxury and debauchery to some bearded headchopper. Groups like ISIS who only target the west's enemies almost certainly are getting direct western support.

The ISIS has targeted Europeans too. Al-Qaeda targeted Americans in 9/11. Radical Islam is a threat to the Western values. Much of the Western support for radical Islam in recent years has been as a counter-balance to Iran's growing power in the region.

I think people overestimate the amount of foreign investment Iran would see if sanctions were removed. There was minimal european investment after JCPOA and I don't think we would see much diaspora investment either.

That's your opinion. It goes against nearly every economic theory though. Sanctions on Iran have caused over 1 trillion USD of damage to our economy. That's 3 times our nominal GDP.

Iran followed "neither east nor west," lack of development of relations with China (who cares about zio Russia) is mostly Iran's fault.

Iran followed an anti-West/anti-Israel approach. Iran has been with the Eastern bloc since late 90s. The only exception is a short period of maybe 3-4 years after the JCPOA where Iran tried to be less dependent on the East. But other than that period, Iran has always been leaning towards Russia and China.

I don't understand what your point is here.

My point is that nearly every country that has tried to use the Eastern bloc as some sort of counter-balance against the West has turned into a failed state. The Eastern bloc will never help you or save you the way that the Westerners have supported their friends in the past.

Yes probably, but that would be the wrong move.

They may claim the same thing about your idea. It's wrong in your opinion, and they think you're wrong.

This is a historical fact, what is the alternative explanation you are providing?

Both Japan and Germany were great global powers before the war. The difference is quite clear. Eastern Germany was a miserable hell that people tried to escape from, while Western Germany was free and prosperous. This is a historical fact. The Eastern bloc weakened their part of Germany and turned it into a failed vassal state. The Western bloc helped Western Germany to prosper. Same thing goes for North Korea and South Korea.

Ask nearly every citizen in Iran and the world: North Kora or South Korea? Which one do you prefer to become? The answer is clear.

Since the Cold War ended, it's not really possible to name a country that turned west and benifitted from it. Armenia lost NK, Syria is still being bombed, South Sudan is the poorest country on Earth, Ukraine was used as cannon fodder. If there is an example I don't know about feel free to tell me about it.

Iraq, for example. People feel much happier under the US control compared to when Saddam ruled over there. So, stop spreading misinformation.

 

[BigMela2onin]

The ISIS has targeted Europeans too. Al-Qaeda targeted Americans in 9/11. Radical Islam is a threat to the Western values. Much of the Western support for radical Islam in recent years has been as a counter-balance to Iran's growing power in the region.

It's an October 7th situation, the US knew it was coming and let is happen as an excuse to push US into a surveillance state. No one in the US cares if they kill europeans, it benefits them to do so. Al-Qaeda played their role perfectly and the US got to invade Iraq and Afghanistan will pushing the government towards executive authoritarianism.

That's your opinion. It goes against nearly every economic theory though. Sanctions on Iran have caused over 1 trillion USD of damage to our economy. That's 3 times our nominal GDP.

Yes sanctions cause damage but removal will not spur investment, we saw it did not with the JCPOA. No one will risk investment when it could disappear any second the US decides to re-institute sanctions on a whim. Investment would require removal of IR and full puppetization of Iran, which is not the goal, the goal is destruction. There will be nothing to invest in when the destruction is finished, we will be poorer than Afghanistan and all the resources will be separated and occupied.

Both Japan and Germany were great global powers before the war. The difference is quite clear. Eastern Germany was a miserable hell that people tried to escape from, while Western Germany was free and prosperous. This is a historical fact. The Eastern bloc weakened their part of Germany and turned it into a failed vassal state. The Western bloc helped Western Germany to prosper. Same thing goes for North Korea and South Korea.

Ask nearly every citizen in Iran and the world: North Kora or South Korea? Which one do you prefer to become? The answer is clear.

The South Korea model isn't being offered, you guys keep saying that we just need sanctions to be removed and the west would help, but it's not even being offered. The argument that this is a choice between east vs. west isn't true, it's a choice between east vs. destruction.

Iraq, for example. People feel much happier under the US control compared to when Saddam ruled over there. So, stop spreading misinformation.

So decade+ insurgency, foreign CI campaign terrorizing your people, federalization (de facto dissolution of Iran), and subsequently foreign militants waging a civil war is what you want for Iran? Then sure Iraq is a model to follow.

 

[Persian Gulf]

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[BigMela2onin]

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You guys should consider, the US could get a pro-US Iran and completely dominate west Asia tomorrow if it allows low level enrichment and signs a deal with at least some benefit for Iran. The fact that it won't even allow that and would prefer to continue conflict and sanctions should show you their true goal for Iran.

 

[Persian Gulf]

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You guys should consider, the US could get a pro-US Iran and completely dominate west Asia tomorrow if it allows low level enrichment and signs a deal with at least some benefit for Iran. The fact that it won't even allow that and would prefer to continue conflict and sanctions should show you their true goal for Iran.

if they give sanctions relief and allow low level enrichment IRI will suddenly become aligned with the US? that didn't happen with JCPOA

US already dominates West Asia

 

[kobra]

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This means that someone from close circle or someone very trusted was spying for Illegitimate entity. Potrayal of Moosad in hollywood movies/series is not far fetched. They have been tracking everyone significant for months.

 

[BigMela2onin]

if they give sanctions relief and allow low level enrichment IRI will suddenly become aligned with the US? that didn't happen with JCPOA

If their goal was to flip Iran, they should be taking actions that build up the reformist bloc as much as possible, give them diplomatic victories, show the people that there is some future with the west. Instead, the withdrew from the JCPOA, instituted snapback, and bombed the country. There actions show that diplomacy doesn't work. If Trump hadn't withdrawn from the JCPOA, Raesi likely wouldn't have been elected, and the reformists could continue to push relations west. They used diplomacy as a ruse for an attack and proudly talk about how they did Pearl Harbor + 9/11 to Iran. They don't want good relations with Iran, it's as clear as day. They could have had an Iran knee-deep in IMF debt (we even applied for a loan during COVID which they denied) and open to western exploitation by now but that's not what they want.

US already dominates West Asia

All the missile defenses and equipment they have stationed here could be moved elsewhere if they flipped Iran.

 

[hyperman]

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This guy has a humiliation fetish or something. Why are they still talking to the IAEA?

 

[Shafagh]

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This guy has a humiliation fetish or something. Why are they still talking to the IAEA?

It's not his call. He is just following orders from Tehran.

 

[hyperman]

It's not his call. He is just following orders from Tehran.

well thats even worse. lol

 

[Persian Gulf]

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This guy has a humiliation fetish or something. Why are they still talking to the IAEA?

Iran signed the NPT and until it gets the courage (and a good reason) to withdraw from NPT it has no choice but to comply with IAEA

 

[Persian Gulf]

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why is it the IAEA's job to protect nuclear scientists? every country is responsible for the safety of their own people and key assets.

 

[hyperman]

Iran signed the NPT and until it gets the courage (and a good reason) to withdraw from NPT it has no choice but to comply with IAEA

this is the guy who ratted the scientists names and other stuff to the Israelis, NPT also protects that?

 

[Persian Gulf]

this is the guy who ratted the scientists names and other stuff to the Israelis, NPT also protects that?

they are a political organisation who spend 99% of their time only on Iran and are heavily influenced by Israel/US. but Iran engaged in nuclear weapons research in the past despite signing NPT. no one forced Iran to sign NPT. it was our mistake.