Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[BigMela2onin]

Most of our population, both in Iran or diaspora is either idolizing western invasion or cirklejerking IRI.

Yes this is part of what I mean by society being backwards. Everyone takes the path of least resistance, waiting for someone else to do the work.

So what’s the solution? Is there any realistic scenario where we avoid getting Balkanized?

No unfortunately.

The IR itself is part of the puzzle. If they weren't part of it, they wouldn't have wasted 3 decades over a useless nuclear program. Our nuclear was always useless. We should even thank Trump for helping us get rid of it.

No nuclear energy is what we need to survive the coming decades of climate change. When the world moves on to fusion, we'll be stuck burning fossil fuels.

At the peak of our enrichment program, our capacity never exceeded 19,000 SWU UF6 kg/year. One nuclear reactor at Bushehr (VVER-1000) requires 27 tones of 3.5% LEU. Our nuclear program was insufficient to produce enough fuel for a single nuclear reactor in 10 years! So, everybody assumed it was a cover up for something clandestine, but as it's been proven, it was not. It was just an excuse for the Ayatollahs to ruin and destroy Iran.


I am extremely proud to be Persian. The IR was established by the lefties who cherished the Islamic-Marxist ideologies. It had nothing to do with Persian values, but Islam and Marxism. This is where their ridiculous support of Palestine come from.
Iran was fast becoming one of the world's largest economies in late 70s, or 1980. We were ranked 11th by nominal GDP. If it weren't for the leftist ideology, and our stupid Islamic ideology, Iran would've been participating in G8 sessions.

The idea that without IR Iran is naturally going to turn its corrupt and nepotistic society into a G8 country is foolish. Without IR will partybazi, bribery, and corruption go away?
If you guys got what you wanted in 10 years you will be wondering what went wrong because you never properly identified the real problem. Iran is a very right wing and capitalist society. A large portion of its society hold conservative, socially backwards views and they aren't going to go away if IR goes. The path for reforming a backwards society into a modern industrial and scientific society is clear, it has done successfully repeatedly throughout history. Removing IR and expecting everything to fall into place is not that path.

 

[ShapurII]

No nuclear energy is what we need to survive the coming decades of climate change. When the world moves on to fusion, we'll be stuck burning fossil fuels.

That's irrelevant to what I said.
My comment was that the IR never had a real nuclear program.
VVER-1000 requires 27 tones of 3.5% LEU per year. It takes ~200,000 SWU UF6 Kg/year to enrich natural uranium to 3.5% fuel rods. And that's just for one reactor and just for one year!

Iran's peak enrichment capacity was 19K SWU UF6/year. Not even enough for producing our own fuel rods every 10 years for a single reactor at Bushehr. To operate 3 nuclear reactors + one research reactor for medical isotopes in Tehran University, our enrichment capacity had to be around 600,000 SWU UF6/year! We couldn't reach even 5% of this capacity in 30 years. So, it was all a scam from the beginning.

So, when nuclear experts looked at the situation, they reached the conclusion that nobody is stupid enough to lose tens of billions of dollars per year over such a useless nuclear program and they concluded that something clandestine had to be going on. As it turned out, the Ayatollahs were really that stupid!

The idea that without IR Iran is naturally going to turn its corrupt and nepotistic society into a G8 country is foolish. Without IR will partybazi, bribery, and corruption go away?

Iran was the world's 11th or 12th largest economy in 1980 (different sources use slightly different numbers) which very quickly recovered from the economic impacts of the revolution. It's a fact that can be verified independently. Nepotism, corruption or anything else did not prevent Iran from achieving that place. This is not something theoretical, this is a statistical fact.

If you guys got what you wanted in 10 years you will be wondering what went wrong because you never properly identified the real problem. Iran is a very right wing and capitalist society. A large portion of its society hold conservative, socially backwards views and they aren't going to go away if IR goes. The path for reforming a backwards society into a modern industrial and scientific society is clear, it has done successfully repeatedly throughout history. Removing IR and expecting everything to fall into place is not that path.

Iran is the exact opposite of a right-wing society. Sure, in small cities, they might be more right-leaning, but Iran as a whole has always been left leaning. The fact that the 1979 revolution made a global issue like Palestine (not an internal one), one of its key points is the undeniable proof of that. Only the lefties do that sort of thing. You can see this sort of nonsense in today's USA as well. You see how the American lefties are anti-establishment and pro-Palestine? Same phenomenon.

The only difference is that Iran at the time was a totalitarian system relying only on one person and the Shah was weak, terminally ill, and stupid and he didn't have the spine to fight back. He eventually gave up and took his family to the US. Hence, the lefties took over with Islam and Marxism.

 

[Persian Gulf]

this guy will be one of Israel's biggest targets in the next round. hope IR can protect him better than the last two guys

the fact that Israel leaked his identity before Iran revealed his name, does not bode well

 

[Eşbah]

But in my view, biggest and oldest problem Iran faces is that Israel/GCC, most Arabs actually, fear a strong and economically prosperous Iran

This is a topic that is barely discussed, yet it holds significant importance and validity. Some Iranian users here think that after the current regime is removed, the next leadership will be welcomed with open arms by everyone, including the West.

This perspective is misguided and quite naive if you ask me. Why would Russia, Saudi Arabia, and the US be eager to reintegrate Iran into the global energy markets? Why? To allow the Iranians to undermine their profit margins? To disrupt their dominance in global energy? To make the world less dependent on them?

Iran shifted from being pro-Western to anti-Western almost overnight. Why would Israel take the risk again and allow a strong, prosperous, wealthy, and influential Iran to rise once more? Does it make sense to you?

You are correct in noting that some individuals here are beginning to lose touch with reality. They confuse wishful thinking with the actual situation the country is currently facing.

I firmly believe that Israel wants to destroy Iran. I really do. However, I am not sure their goal is a regime change. I'm inclined to believe that Tel Aviv and Washington want to see an Iran that is internally fragmented almost drowning in a civil war, basically slow cooking itself for decades to come. If this plan doesn't work out only then they will try the 'balkanization option'.

 

[BigMela2onin]

Iran is the exact opposite of a right-wing society. Sure, in small cities, they might be more right-leaning, but Iran as a whole has always been left leaning. The fact that the 1979 revolution made a global issue like Palestine (not an internal one), one of its key points is the undeniable proof of that.

Qajar Iran was not a beacon of enlightenment and social liberalization during Pahlavi era did not extend much beyond the city.

Only the lefties do that sort of thing. You can see this sort of nonsense in today's USA as well. You see how the American lefties are anti-establishment and pro-Palestine? Same phenomenon.

Being against genocide is a pro-human position. It's also in your interest not the let the jews drag the world back into the dark ages. The same quadcopters shooting and dropping grenades on Palestinian children might do it to you in the coming years if palantir's AI decides your social credit score is too low.

The only difference is that Iran at the time was a totalitarian system relying only on one person and the Shah was weak, terminally ill, and stupid and he didn't have the spine to fight back. He eventually gave up and took his family to the US. Hence, the lefties took over with Islam and Marxism.

Marxism is not "thing I don't like," Iran is not a socialist or communist country. There is no point debating this.

 

[BigMela2onin]

I firmly believe that Israel wants to destroy Iran. I really do. However, I am not sure their goal is a regime change. I'm inclined to believe that Tel Aviv and Washington want to see an Iran that is internally fragmented almost drowning in a civil war, basically slow cooking itself for decades to come. If this plan doesn't work out only then they will try the 'balkanization option'.

This is not an opinion, this is a fact. Everything east and north of the Zagros and Alborz is as good as gone, it will be clear in the coming years.

 

[Persian Gulf]

not sure where the photo is from

 

[ShapurII]

Qajar Iran was not a beacon of enlightenment and social liberalization during Pahlavi era did not extend much beyond the city.

It wasn't a dark age either. Culturally, the Qajars did a lot for the Iranian culture. The Qajars had a poor record of winning wars, but culturally they were not behind the Ottomans (if not ahead) and they did promote Iranian cultural elements. They rewrote our music theory, had a keen interest in poetry, had so many enlightened people that promoted democracy and modern values like women's rights, etc. The Persian 1905 revolution was possibly one of the most modern cultural/political movements in the entire history of the region.
Both Iran and Turkey were modernized by Reza Shah and Ataturk around the same time, but the only difference is that Turkey did remain secular, sometimes enforced by the US military influence in the country, while the 1979 revolution ruined everything for Iran and sent Iran back in time.

Being against genocide is a pro-human position. It's also in your interest not the let the jews drag the world back into the dark ages. The same quadcopters shooting and dropping grenades on Palestinian children might do it to you in the coming years if palantir's AI decides your social credit score is too low.

China has a social credit system as well, does it bother me? Not really.
Israel wasn't our problem until the Mullahs made it so. Even in their dreams of grandiosity and Greater Israel, Iran is not part of their "promised" kingdom.
Hamas started October 7. Sure, Israel deserved every bit of it for decades of oppression, but Arabs have a saying that goes "People who live in glass houses should not throw stones". All of this does not concern us nevertheless.

If we want to talk about humanitarian positions, the situation in Palestine has not been the only one in the last 47 years. Our pro-human position started to mean nothing when we defended Russia's aggression against a sovereign nation: Ukraine.

Marxism is not "thing I don't like," Iran is not a socialist or communist country. There is no point debating this.

There is absolutely zero doubt that Marxism and leftist ideologies were a core part of the 1979 revolution. Most of the revolutionaries that started arm resistance against the Shah were Marxists and Leninists.

 

[BigMela2onin]

It wasn't a dark age either. Culturally, the Qajars did a lot for the Iranian culture. The Qajars had a poor record of winning wars, but culturally they were not behind the Ottomans (if not ahead) and they did promote Iranian cultural elements. They rewrote our music theory, had a keen interest in poetry, had so many enlightened people that promoted democracy and modern values like women's rights, etc. The Persian 1905 revolution was possibly one of the most modern cultural/political movements in the entire history of the region.

The constitutional revolution was against the Qajars. The backwardness of the Qajars and their continual defeats and concessions to Europe spurred the need for such an opposition. Tangentially, we should be seeing the same today as the IR has put is in the same situation yet there is no organized domestic opposition to IR.

China has a social credit system as well, does it bother me? Not really.

When the US says it's told Palantir to make an AI database of every american, if you think that will be used benevolently, that's on you. The jews openly brag about using Palestine as a testing ground for weapons, modern US policing techniques were developed in the West Bank and brought back to the US. AI targeting and drone assassinations will be used against americans soon enough. You are at higher risk for victimization due to the racial and religious hatred of the whites. Talk of denaturalizing citizens starts as talk and then becomes action and the talk is already happening. The groundwork is already being set to talk away any rights you may think you have.

Israel wasn't our problem until the Mullahs made it so. Even in their dreams of grandiosity and Greater Israel, Iran is not part of their "promised" kingdom.
Hamas started October 7. Sure, Israel deserved every bit of it for decades of oppression, but Arabs have a saying that goes "People who live in glass houses should not throw stones". All of this does not concern us nevertheless.

The jews are positioning themselves to be regional hegemon without any US help. They want to be surrounded by small, fractured, failed states/anarchy. That includes Iran. When they openly say causing high civilian casualties was a goal in the 12 day way, what do you think that means regarding how they view Iranians? Do you think they will change that view if IR disappears?

If we want to talk about humanitarian positions, the situation in Palestine has not been the only one in the last 47 years. Our pro-human position started to mean nothing when we defended Russia's aggression against a sovereign nation: Ukraine.

Who cares what happens to whites.

There is absolutely zero doubt that Marxism and leftist ideologies were a core part of the 1979 revolution. Most of the revolutionaries that started arm resistance against the Shah were Marxists and Leninists.

They were purged after the revolution and now 46 years have passed since then. Iran is in no way socialist or communist.

 

[ShapurII]

The constitutional revolution was against the Qajars. The backwardness of the Qajars and their continual defeats and concessions to Europe spurred the need for such an opposition. Tangentially, we should be seeing the same today as the IR has put is in the same situation yet there is no organized domestic opposition to IR.

It was the progress made in the late decades of the Qajars that made the constitutional revolution possible. All of the main figures of the constitutional revolution lived during the Qajar era. The Qajars sent Iranians abroad to European countries where modern elements were imported to Iran. The idea of constitutional monarchy and modern journalism were purely imports of Iranian students in Europe that had been sent there by the Qajars. The Qajars also imported a lot of new technologies from Europe.

When the US says it's told Palantir to make an AI database of every american, if you think that will be used benevolently, that's on you. The jews openly brag about using Palestine as a testing ground for weapons, modern US policing techniques were developed in the West Bank and brought back to the US. AI targeting and drone assassinations will be used against americans soon enough. You are at higher risk for victimization due to the racial and religious hatred of the whites. Talk of denaturalizing citizens starts as talk and then becomes action and the talk is already happening. The groundwork is already being set to talk away any rights you may think you have.

Do you think Israel is the only one doing that?
Do you think other countries will not bank on the opportunities that big data provide?
Do you think data on TikTok will never be processed for any such purposes?
Did you know that China is literally monitored by streets cameras meter by meter?

Welcome to the new era. We are living in Orwell's 1984 dystopian society already. We have been living under extreme surveillance and control for a decade already. The problem is rather the US than Israel, but can we fight back with the US and create our own internet from scratch? I don't think so. So, it's better to stop being one of the top US targets in this case.

The jews are positioning themselves to be regional hegemon without any US help. They want to be surrounded by small, fractured, failed states/anarchy. That includes Iran. When they openly say causing high civilian casualties was a goal in the 12 day way, what do you think that means regarding how they view Iranians? Do you think they will change that view if IR disappears?

What do you mean without any US help?
The US almost emptied its stock of ABMs during the 12-day battle to save Israel. Did the IAF use indigenous jet fighters that I don't know of? Wasn't it the US that bombed our nuclear facilities for Israel?
As I said, and I will reiterate it again, the animosity between Iran and Israel has been blown out of proportion by the Islamic regime in Iran. Israel is no immediate threat to Iran without the Ayatollah regime. Israelis feel cornered by Arabs in the region, and feel discontent by the growing power of Turkey right next to them. A secular Iran would come after Arabs and nearby Turkey for sure.
Will Iran get balkanized? Probably. But the more the Ayatollahs remain in power, the more this scenario becomes likely.

Who cares what happens to whites.

Billions of people do apparently.

They were purged after the revolution and now 46 years have passed since then. Iran is in no way socialist or communist.

They were purged through mass killings. That doesn't change the fact that the lefties were the core of the 1979 revolution, which was our main discussion.

 

[kastor ville]

So technically the only way this scenario works out is if the reformists and IRGC reach some form of deal that is also acceptable to the US. Do you think there is sentiment inside IRGC to do this and could that be why it was so easy for Israel to purge the IRGC chain of command?

Zero chance of this happening.....a civil war will happen first, which is what the enemy wants. Nope!
The path forward is to reform......
Reform the judiciary, reform the election depts get rid of the Expediency council, the Guardian council, the Supreme Leader can stay and be a symbolic guy, like the pope, tell the rest of the clerics to go back to the mosques.....they have no business in govt offices or courts....period. We need bureaucrats and professional civil workers leading institutions....people with actual degrees in such things.
pursue the nuclear ambition in secret....meanwhile negotiate and negotiate, but keep on course with nukes.

 

[kastor ville]

Yes this is part of what I mean by society being backwards. Everyone takes the path of least resistance, waiting for someone else to do the work.

No unfortunately.

No nuclear energy is what we need to survive the coming decades of climate change. When the world moves on to fusion, we'll be stuck burning fossil fuels.

The idea that without IR Iran is naturally going to turn its corrupt and nepotistic society into a G8 country is foolish. Without IR will partybazi, bribery, and corruption go away?
If you guys got what you wanted in 10 years you will be wondering what went wrong because you never properly identified the real problem. Iran is a very right wing and capitalist society. A large portion of its society hold conservative, socially backwards views and they aren't going to go away if IR goes. The path for reforming a backwards society into a modern industrial and scientific society is clear, it has done successfully repeatedly throughout history. Removing IR and expecting everything to fall into place is not that path.

Corruption and partybazi has been part of our govt even before the Shah....all the old countries are or were corrupt. We are no different, the way you change it is by having strong civil institutions....good judges, courts, and laws. If convicted, you lock them up and forfeit their wealth....all of it. This will send a strong message, that we will not tolerate corruption, the issue with this govt is that the people in majlis are all corrupt so no laws like this will ever pass. Heck, read about Ghalibaf, he's the most corrupt SOB in the whole outfit, and he almost became president.

 

[Khorasan Black Flags]

Sorry

But why don’t you flies keep quiet and stay on the topic?!!!!

 

[kastor ville]

f*ck off. It's none of your business how Iranians decide for the future of their country. We do not consider your lot to be our friends, if not our enemies.

And we are proud to be Persians. Iran is the successor of Persia. Anyone who claims otherwise or use a derogatory tone against the proud history of Iran as Persia should be hanged from their balls.

The Ayatollahs must go and they have already come to the last stage of their mess. They're now begging Trump on their knees for a few more years in power, but it's game over for them. Even if Trump allows these fools to stay in power, people will no longer let these b*tches stay in power. With the US dollar hitting 105K IRT, electricity and water cuts, it is only a matter of time before another round of unrest hits the country, harder than ever.

You know who this guy is....right? I can tell by his writing. Anyways, he doesn't get the point, they had over 40 yrs to get this right, but they brought us to the brink of destruction and breakup.
They won't get any sympathy from me.......also the BS the west is falling, how much Koolaid do you have to drink to believe that? I don't think these guys have ever been outside of Iran....lol.
It's no wonder we got to this point....we have people like these in charge.

 

[Khorasan Black Flags]

You know who this guy is....right? I can tell by his writing. Anyways, he doesn't get the point, they had over 40 yrs to get this right, but they brought us to the brink of destruction and breakup.
They won't get any sympathy from me.......also the BS the west is falling, how much Koolaid do you have to drink to believe that? I don't think these guys have ever been outside of Iran....lol.
It's no wonder we got to this point....we have people like these in charge.

Reported for spamming