Iranian Air Defence Systems | News and Discussions

[vizier]

That is very interesting. I also suggested months ago something like MBDA Twinvis radar which is essentially passive. It works like this one. High angle off boresight missiles like IRIS-T can be locked after launch (LOAL) that makes them capable of working combined with passive radars. They would be just ejected when passive radar detects the incoming stealth fighter or cruise missile.

Yes the system can be combined with many other items like loal sams, iir sams like majid, interceptor drones and similar.

They can also be used with Khordad like radar based systems. The problem with these systems is they are mobile&long range but it is hard to do shoot-scoot with them. Once they start scanning they are visible to enemy elint. After a short while after detection they are jammed or destroyed by the enemy. It also takes 10min+ to deploy and activate the radars of these systems. Once the radar opens same vulnurability arises and the bulkier-longer range the system the harder it is to race with time before enemy detects the vehicle.

If khordad gets an aesa radar I think it can work in stand by mode waiting for data for immediately start tracking of the target. After it deploys it can make a narrow pencil beam directly upwards(or any direction that enemy cant intercept the beam) so it wont be detected by enemy elint. So it can stay open waiting for the scanning info of the passive radars. Then after data arrives track and shoot down the target within seconds, close the radar and move to next position. While it is moving there should be at least another vehicle in the stand by mode. You would need 2+ vehicles to cover the same area continiously while one vehicle is moving the other should be on stand-by or tracking mode.

All vehicles must be on continious rotation like a revolver to not to be detected by spy sats and targeted afterwards. Above solution would only work against elint.

 

[Immortals]

fine to take hits

but not hit to not fulfil their basic function which is to provide some form of warning that the enemy's jets are on airborne and seem to be approaching Iranian territory (even if still 500km+ away)

the strikes throughout West Iran and Tehran (simultaneously) caught IRI totally off guard. it's not like they destroyed every single OTH Radar system. so it suggests the OTH radars did not work as expected or Israel simply exposed their natural limitations

They simply could have been jammed or worse not even on that night.

I doubt before the war Iran kept their OTH on 24/7. I assume these cost a lot to keep on from power consumption and resources. Although they should have been every night from dusk to dawn (most likely period an enemy would ever attack iran).

The sad fact is outside of Majid, Iranian air defense systems and radars performed extremely poorly.

Iraq had way more fixed aircraft kills in PG War 1 &2. Iran didnt even have one fixed aircraft war the entire conflict. Very surprising and troubling.

 

[Garcia Sea]

Iran's vulnerabilities were straight up embarrassing. Meanwhile Yemen, despite being way poorer, managed to shoot down tons of UAV and even cornered an F35.
At the end of the day, what protects a country is national unity, and Iran's full of traitors from top military brass all the way to government officials, so no amount of fancy equipment is gonna help.

In a country where visiting dignitaries' hotel rooms are compromised enough for assassination attempts, how if do they expect to hide their SAM?

 

[Persian Gulf]

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good idea to proliferate missile 359 through Iraq to target Israeli/US fuel tankers

 

[Immortals]

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good idea to proliferate missile 359 through Iraq to target Israeli/US fuel tankers

Killing US airmen is great way to get the entire U.S. public to call for the overthrow of the current leadership in Iran. You would be handing the neocons exactly what they want — a blank check.

Also Iraqi’s are already divided on Iran and have no interest in being involved in an Israeli vs Iran war. Sure Iran could get the PMU aligned groups to do this, but it has to take into account the general public of Iraq isn’t viewing Iran too favorably. Overall, in the Middle East Iran has gotten the reputation of getting other groups to do its dirty work and then the people of those countries end up suffering when Israel or U.S. ends up bombing them. Only in Yemen (still in the throes of revolutionary fervor) does the public largely side with the the militia.

So targeting US tankers is just not going to happen. Not even Russia struck any NATO assets when it could have easily targeted the supply planes transporting weapons to Ukraine on a daily/weekly basis.

The last country to heavily attack Western military targets and airforce was Iraq. And we saw the carnage that came with the U.S. response (Highway of Death). Let’s also not forget Iraq during PG War I was ‘on paper’ a top 7 military power and it got bulldozed.

Iran’s got some Ballistic missiles and some drones. No true airforce. No true Navy. No lethal cruise missile threat (C-802/C-801 family is long obsolete). It simply cannot afford an air war where the U.S. joins in —it will end poorly 9 times out of 10 for Iran. Its current strategy is likely hoping that Republicans lose the MidTerms and buy enough time for a “traditional” politician to be elected next presidential cycle and go back to the old western strategy of “containment + sanctions”.

 

[hasssanali8998]

Killing US airmen is great way to get the entire U.S. public to call for the overthrow of the current leadership in Iran.

do u really don't want to kill enemies while you are at war with them .

Also Iraqi’s are already divided on Iran and have no interest in being involved in an Israeli vs Iran war.

you don't need the entire Iraqi populace to shoot down a massive aircraft like a tanker

 

[Immortals]

do u really don't want to kill enemies while you are at war with them .

You need to think of the 2nd and 3rd order of your actions. If you kill US airmen who are not in Iranian airspace nor directly killing Iranian civilians or personnel, US will be obligated to answer with a much stronger and direct response in order to show China and Russia they are still the #1 superpower.

This is proper climbing the escalation ladder. A ladder that Iran cannot hope to win
And has always been reluctant to climb (See Syrian war). That is why after Iran got their nuclear facilities leveled by B-2 bombers they did responded with a largely symbolic counter attack. Because the goal is self preservation and survival. Iran still vividly remembers Operation Pray Mantis.

Iran is not in a position to win an escalation battle with the U.S. nor does it have the weapons to do so.

you don't need the entire Iraqi populace to shoot down a massive aircraft like a tanker

Iran is already unpopular in Iraq by the largely young population (under 40) that sees its politicians as bending knee for Iran instead of addressing their own problems of the people.

Iran is also not very popular in Lebanon among the Christian’s and Arabs and even among Shiites due to the mass destruction Israel did and the fact that Lebanon has been a proxy battleground for Israel/US/Iran for decades that has kept Lebanon paralyzed, weak, and economically dysfunctional.

It is also why Iran didn’t call on what was left of HZ to aid it in the 12 day war, because it would only deepen Iranian resentment in the region.

Think about it, outside of Houthi’s and HZ no one in the Middle East actually likes Iran. Not the Arabs, Not the Syrians, Not the Turks, Not the Kurds, Not the Druze, Not the Taliban, Not the [northern] Azeris, Not the Jews, etc.

Iran has to walk a very delicate balance right now because it’s as alone as it’s ever been in the past 25 years.

 

[Piet]

Iran's vulnerabilities were straight up embarrassing. Meanwhile Yemen, despite being way poorer, managed to shoot down tons of UAV and even cornered an F35.
At the end of the day, what protects a country is national unity, and Iran's full of traitors from top military brass all the way to government officials, so no amount of fancy equipment is gonna help.

In a country where visiting dignitaries' hotel rooms are compromised enough for assassination attempts, how if do they expect to hide their SAM?

I advanced the theory some time back that S-300 type missiles could be based in vertical underground launch tubes. At the time this theory did not really find traction.

Lets consider what measures other countries have, or will have, to protect their SAM's.

- China: - Satellite imagery shows China has been building at least two facilities featuring hardened shelters with retractable roofs along its heavily disputed border with India. These look to be examples of a new pattern of air defense site, with the shelters allowing for surface-to-air missiles to be fired from transporter-erector-launchers situated within.

North Korea:- SAMS are deployed in hardened bunkers from where they can also be launched.

Sure, while the location of such launch tubes would be known by attackers, a 'race track' of underground tunnels & launch tubes would at least ensure that surviving SAM's would be able to be launched. This would also preclude drones, ATGM's and loitering drones from taking out an entire battery with one strike.

This would require multiple strikes by the enemy, and consequently expand the kill zones, and risk, around these SAM's. Like from Shorads etc.

Piet

 

[Piet]

If khordad gets an aesa radar I think it can work in stand by mode waiting for data for immediately start tracking of the target. After it deploys it can make a narrow pencil beam directly upwards(or any direction that enemy cant intercept the beam) so it wont be detected by enemy elint. So it can stay open waiting for the scanning info of the passive radars. Then after data arrives track and shoot down the target within seconds, close the radar and move to next position. While it is moving there should be at least another vehicle in the stand by mode. You would need 2+ vehicles to cover the same area continiously while one vehicle is moving the other should be on stand-by or tracking mode.

All vehicles must be on continious rotation like a revolver to not to be detected by spy sats and targeted afterwards. Above solution would only work against elint.

I agree. There is no such thing as 'absolute security'. But 2+ non-radiating initially, vehicles can be deployed, at least, in 'ambush mode', along probable enemy ingress and egress zones.

Piet

 

[Garcia Sea]

Iran needs to take notes from Venezuela's fate.
Venezuela had F16 and S-300,supposedly a way stronger air defense network than Iran.
yet their whole system folded overnight. Now you've got US helos casually cruising over the capital like they own the place.
This is what modern stealth and EW looks like.
It’s basically a live trailer for the world of exactly what's gonna happen when the US and Israel invade Iran next.

 

[Piet]

They can also be used with Khordad like radar based systems. The problem with these systems is they are mobile&long range but it is hard to do shoot-scoot with them. Once they start scanning they are visible to enemy elint. After a short while after detection they are jammed or destroyed by the enemy. It also takes 10min+ to deploy and activate the radars of these systems. Once the radar opens same vulnurability arises and the bulkier-longer range the system the harder it is to race with time before enemy detects the vehicle.

Indeed, long range (~600km) AEW radar are massive, and do not really posses the time or ability to be taken down and moved rapidly. Consider the Fath-14 for instance.

North Korea has much the same problem.

Legacy radar systems can be withdrawn into underground revetments and secured by a sliding ‘door’. Which of course will have no bearing to say a garage door.

The new large radar unveiled by North Korea at an arms exhibition, would exacerbate physical defensive measure.

This radar is so large that it was raised at an angle just to fit into the exhibition hall: -



Piet

 

[Persian Gulf]

Killing US airmen is great way to get the entire U.S. public to call for the overthrow of the current leadership in Iran. You would be handing the neocons exactly what they want — a blank check.

Israel has its own tankers that it uses to refuel its jets in Syria and Iraq

 

[OldTwilight]

without nukes , spending on air force and AD against usa is useless , their military budget is 1 trillion dollars while ours is less than 10 billion dollars .... we cannot hope to compete them in conventional fields ...

our only option is mutual destruction ....


we should have nukes ...

even china understand this at 1960s ...

 

[vizier]

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good idea to proliferate missile 359 through Iraq to target Israeli/US fuel tankers

359 missile is good but if pantsyrs missile(80kg 15km altititude) could have been copied till now it could have been as transportable under cover. Just like 358-359 you would need a passive iir ground scanner-tracker that can be transported separately. 359 has similar weight - more range than panstyrs missile but ceiling seems to be a little lower like 9km. It is perfect against drones but fighter aircraft can stay at 10-15km operating atltitude.

 

[Persian Gulf]

359 missile is good but if pantsyrs missile(80kg 15km altititude) could have been copied till now it could have been as transportable under cover. Just like 358-359 you would need a passive iir ground scanner-tracker that can be transported separately. 359 has similar weight - more range than panstyrs missile but ceiling seems to be a little lower like 9km. It is perfect against drones but fighter aircraft can stay at 10-15km operating atltitude.

359 can be transported on a normal civilian truck so it is easy to transport. Pantsir has poor performance in multiple arenas and is a more distinguishable military truck