Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

jauk said:
In a terribly sad way there is a silver lining about all this: Iran is putting in skin in developing this system.
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It is NOT time to give up. These pilots sacrificed their lives for "Iranzamin" - make the plane even better, perfect it, become independent and strong! And in so doing, honor the pilots even more!
 
Persian Gulf said:
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A joke of a plane and a joke of a project. 2 prototypes for years for propaganda and now one of them got pilots killed. Likely due to a crappy plane with crappy safety standards during R&D. Now you know why we bought Yak-130.

These half assed “test bed projects” (Kowsar, Yasin, IR-140). Have gone nowhere in last 2 decades. But don’t worry we are stone’s throw away from pilotless highly advanced 6th Gen fighter jets according to some on here.
 
Immortals said:
A joke of a plane and a joke of a project. 2 prototypes for years for propaganda and now one of them got pilots killed. Likely due to a crappy plane with crappy safety standards during R&D. Now you know why we bought Yak-130.

These half assed “test bed projects” (Kowsar, Yasin, IR-140). Have gone nowhere in last 2 decades. But don’t worry we are stone’s throw away from pilotless highly advanced 6th Gen fighter jets according to some on here.
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it is in any case a prototype and prototypes are made almost by hand to test the characteristics of the project made on "paper" allowing then to make changes.
As in the Yassin, the second one made differs significantly from the first, but it always remains a prototype that is not yet the definitively tested version that will then go into mass production.
As always and not only the Iranian ones, prototypes can have malfunctions that have also led to the partial or total loss of the aircraft and in the most serious cases to the death of the test pilots.
I write test pilots, that is pilots with a great deal of flight experience, and it is these "test pilots" who test in flight the prototypes of aircraft or aircraft subjected to extensive updates or repairs and not normal combat pilots, precisely because the prototypes during the tests can highlight anomalies that only with enormous experience can one attempt to correct in flight to bring the aircraft itself back to the ground in one piece, indeed it has often happened that the test pilot has chosen not to eject and to try to bring the aircraft to the ground precisely to save it aware of the enormous work that the others had done to create it, perhaps also because for him it is a challenge man vs machine that he wants to win at all costs, the majority of the time he wins, but it has also happened that he loses the challenge and sacrifices himself.
I personally think that the Yassin project must go ahead, the aircraft is elegant, it serves the IRIAF both as a trainer and could also be developed in combat versions, furthermore since it is made in Iran the monetary value remains in Iran.
PS
YAK-130 excellent trainer and with good combat capabilities and certainly it is essential to have it if you want to train pilots for the SU-35, but it has a cost that must be paid abroad or with money or with barter which in any case even in this last case is a value that does not remain in Iran.
So the YAK-130 is welcome, but the Yassin should be produced in any case and who knows, the collaboration with important Russian aircraft manufacturers could also bring benefits to the Yassin project in general and the engines in particular the turbofans are more modern and consume less than the turbojets and could be made under license, furthermore it would obtain standardization with the Yak-130 engines
 
sahureka2 said:
I personally think that the Yassin project must go ahead, the aircraft is elegant, it serves the IRIAF both as a trainer and could also be developed in combat versions, furthermore since it is made in Iran the monetary value remains in Iran.
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its correct that prototypes are prone to accident
but show me a single scenario that Yasin can outshine Kowsar
 
Hack-Hook said:
its correct that prototypes are prone to accident
but show me a single scenario that Yasin can outshine Kowsar
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Kowsar and Yasin outshines all 4th and 5th gen fighters in the world in terms of killing Iranian pilots
 
Hack-Hook said:
its correct that prototypes are prone to accident
but show me a single scenario that Yasin can outshine Kowsar
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Two different classes of aircraft difficult to compare.
One is the complete reverse engineering of an aircraft made by others (certainly it was a huge and difficult work to realize) both as a combat aircraft and as an advanced trainer .
The other is a completely Iranian project that should cover the training phase of pilots in the transition from propeller aircraft to jet aircraft.
Furthermore, being still in the experimental phase, as written above, this project could receive significant improvements thanks to good relations with the Russians, including modern turbofans (preferably in co-production or with a high level of local production of engine components)
 
sahureka2 said:
Two different classes of aircraft difficult to compare.
One is the complete reverse engineering of an aircraft made by others (certainly it was a huge and difficult work to realize) both as a combat aircraft and as an advanced trainer .
The other is a completely Iranian project that should cover the training phase of pilots in the transition from propeller aircraft to jet aircraft.
Furthermore, being still in the experimental phase, as written above, this project could receive significant improvements thanks to good relations with the Russians, including modern turbofans (preferably in co-production or with a high level of local production of engine components)
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Agreed.

Yassin it is a subsonic trainer, capable of light attack missions, while Kowsar it is a supersonic light fighter.

His lower speed would also make It better for training purposses than Kowsar.

But another reason would be industrial origin. Seems necessary to be independent at some points to russians, chinese or western technology. If IRIAF just purchase Yak130 or even L16 advanced trainers, IRIAF would loose their autonomy for developing new weapons, avionics and sensors.
 
sahureka2 said:
Two different classes of aircraft difficult to compare.
One is the complete reverse engineering of an aircraft made by others (certainly it was a huge and difficult work to realize) both as a combat aircraft and as an advanced trainer .
The other is a completely Iranian project that should cover the training phase of pilots in the transition from propeller aircraft to jet aircraft.
Furthermore, being still in the experimental phase, as written above, this project could receive significant improvements thanks to good relations with the Russians, including modern turbofans (preferably in co-production or with a high level of local production of engine components)
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if you say complete reverse engineering then ok, I don't have anything to add here
 
Flotilla said:
Agreed.

Yassin it is a subsonic trainer, capable of light attack missions, while Kowsar it is a supersonic light fighter.

His lower speed would also make It better for training purposses than Kowsar.

But another reason would be industrial origin. Seems necessary to be independent at some points to russians, chinese or western technology. If IRIAF just purchase Yak130 or even L16 advanced trainers, IRIAF would loose their autonomy for developing new weapons, avionics and sensors.
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the pilots just need to train for supersonic fighters and you can't go supersonic with kowsar if you don't use afterburner , they can just use owj without afterburner for trainer version

and by that they can save money for more research and development by not having two parallel project, and focus on developing a project that is lighter , can carry more weapon , is more maneuverable and inherently have lower rcs.

kowsar is only inferior in one aspect and that is if you want add engine three time more powerful to yasin and increase its armor and then use it for CAS . in that case it's design is less suitable for the role, but i assure you they never do that
 
Yasin was a failure from the beginning. The aerodynamics of the plane were troubling to the point when it first flew the plane suffered from vibrations mid-flight and the test pilot barely landed it safely (The green toy-like appearance). They had to re-design it and brand it as a production prototype but the problems persisted because:

- Aerodynamics changes were done without a wind tunnel. This same problem of designing aerodynamics without proper wind tunnels resulted in the crash/ending of the Tazarve program. As a matter of fact troubling aerodynamics have been a long problem for HESA. If people remember, the first Saeghe-I protoype had resdesigned squared intakes which were returned to typical F-5 like inverted C shapes after plane was vibrating badly if loaded with sidewinders rails. Square air-intakes and V shaped twin stablizers were such a bad idea that they abandoned the Saeghe program altogether in 2015 and went with F-5F rebuilding/scratch production program.

- They used a non-afterburning version of OWJ turbojet which is an Iranian modernized/rebuilt J-85-GE-17C, not tested as a nonafterburning engine, it was built to power kowsar. This nonafterburning version was so problematic that according to BT iran officially asked for LP of Saljut (Russian) AL-222-25.

- They tried stuffing Kowsar's heavy avionics suite and cockpit panels inside this little fuselage which aerodynamically already was troublesome.

- The Sarir ejection seats are so dangerous that security teams of HESA had to delay Kowsar program because of accidental launches within the hangers. Some including me believe that experienced test pilots (F-14A and Mig-29 experience) could not eject properly from this plane even seeing a mountain in front.

Program is bundled IMO after "mass production" and "exports".
 
Emirzad said:
Yasin was a failure from the beginning. The aerodynamics of the plane were troubling to the point when it first flew the plane suffered from vibrations mid-flight and the test pilot barely landed it safely (The green toy-like appearance). They had to re-design it and brand it as a production prototype but the problems persisted because:

- Aerodynamics changes were done without a wind tunnel. This same problem of designing aerodynamics without proper wind tunnels resulted in the crash/ending of the Tazarve program. As a matter of fact troubling aerodynamics have been a long problem for HESA. If people remember, the first Saeghe-I protoype had resdesigned squared intakes which were returned to typical F-5 like inverted C shapes after plane was vibrating badly if loaded with sidewinders rails. Square air-intakes and V shaped twin stablizers were such a bad idea that they abandoned the Saeghe program altogether in 2015 and went with F-5F rebuilding/scratch production program.

- They used a non-afterburning version of OWJ turbojet which is an Iranian modernized/rebuilt J-85-GE-17C, not tested as a nonafterburning engine, it was built to power kowsar. This nonafterburning version was so problematic that according to BT iran officially asked for LP of Saljut (Russian) AL-222-25.

- They tried stuffing Kowsar's heavy avionics suite and cockpit panels inside this little fuselage which aerodynamically already was troublesome.

- The Sarir ejection seats are so dangerous that security teams of HESA had to delay Kowsar program because of accidental launches within the hangers. Some including me believe that experienced test pilots (F-14A and Mig-29 experience) could not eject properly from this plane even seeing a mountain in front.

Program is bundled IMO after "mass production" and "exports".
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Are they personal suppositions based on what little has transpired about the project?
Or are they news that can be defined as official and therefore verifiable?
 
Immortals said:
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@Emirzad
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In late 80s, Mansour Sattari, then IRIAF Chief, laid this plan of rebuilding F-5E fleet to "Azarakhsh" standards, an extensively rebuilt/MLU'ed airframe with J-7G/E like avionics. For its time, Azaraksh was a good light CAP platform which should have served and retired in early 2010s. It had everything for a 80s/90s fighter. Three were built only before IRIAF refused to purchase it. They were equipped with following:

- Chinese SY-80 Pulse-Doppler radar (35 KM track range for a fighter)
2 x Iranian MFDs + HUD
- 930-4 RWR (J-7N) and two side on 941-4AC chaff/flare dispensers used in J-8
- GPS + JD-3 TACAN again in J-8
- Type III IFF
- Air data + Mission Computer, configuration of J-7E.
- PL-5C, AIM-9J(Fattar), I am not sure if AIM-7E2 could have been slaved to Chinese radar.

What we have known as Kowsar since 2018 was supposed to be Azarkhsh-II, entirely from scratch airframe powered by RD-33 which was never built. Sattaris also planned YF-17 like F-5 variant local production. Remember Shahi IIAF planned F-17 or FA/18 TOT production in Iran so blue prints were shared. This resulted in botched attempt of Saeghe-I/II under a project named "Thunderbolt-80" as supposedly 1980 was the year the ground was supposed to be broken in Iran for this production line.

Sattari started this for two apparent reasons. Russia gave a big FU to Iran after Yeltsin failed to provide MIG-31 and Mig-29 (24+72) under american pressure. Also Sattari came from Air defence unit and F-5E/F family is known for their small RCS and has never been shot at even borderline BVR ranges during conflicts where same missiles brought down F-4E in bulk. He may have fallen in love with this plane like others had their own favorite platforms. Commander Behrooz Naghdi bek's obsession with Mirage-F1 kept this cashgrab-monster alive in IRIAF for decades without any weapon.

Good stories, now irrelevant.
 
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