Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[ToddE]

Kuwaiti F18 fighter jet crashes during training mission, pilot killed​

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I didn't know that Kuwait had F-18 in their inventory. The threat of Growler version of this fighter jet is one of the most dangerous and serious threats to our AD and fighter jets that always concerns me, esp given its outstanding EW capabilities.

Glad to see that its already present in our neghbouring country as small as Kuwait which is easy to study its radar features.

Even if its old version of F-18 family, what matters is, we have already studied its aerodynamic features beside its weapon systems and their appearance on radar scope.

RIP to the pilot.

They have FA-18 and F-18EF, not F-18G Growler version which US would not give to anyone outside Anglo alliance. F-18EF has a RCS of 1 m2 so it will probably be tracked by NAJM-802/4 AESA at 300 KM.

They only have one FAB so if it comes to blows, South western IRGC command from Dezful and Shiraz will rubble this base with all the hornets inside it. 10 x Kheybar-4 from deep territory with their 80 x submunitions clustered PBVs and some 30 x Fattah HGVs will be enough to make sure that no one lands back there again.

 

[StormOfTruth]

Any truth here or just fanboys being fanboys?

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[Ali_Baba]

Any truth here or just fanboys being fanboys?

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At this stage - fanboys, but i would imagine Iran is looking hard and fast on how to complement its existing programmes with new jets to beef up its airforce. A J10CE would serve Iran better due to their range requirements of needing to be able to conduct offensive missions alongside defensive roles with high-persistence CAP missions. The JF17 is rather too short legged in comparison if they want to(or can) go down the Chinese route. Iran needs a high end fighter, and JF17 only makes sense once you have a high even fighter it can operate under.

I am not aware of any delivery of Su-35s, with most articles suggesting "24" on order. Does anyone have anything to indicate possible delivery? A S300/400 combo with Su35/30s makes sense for an integrated solution. Same with China based on J10CEs/JF17s and HQ19BE's. Iran needs to decide which route it wants to go down (it may have done so already) and put in place a procurement plan for that.

Unlike some others on this thread - I do think that Iran will aggresively recapitalise its airforce soon alongside maintaining local experiments. Iran needs military capability now, alongside of course building strategic skills for home grown solutions. The Iranian airforce has been neglected for sure, but what we saw with Israel taking out a deep underground bunker with over 80 bunker buster bombs will not be lost of the leadership for sure, regardless of "the local theatrical politics".

There is only so far you can take old tired airframes. Additionally, there is only so far you can take designs based on Phantoms, F5s for modern warfare. If you have seen the recent videos of Su30s trying to dodge Patriot missiles, you realise that while kinetic performance may not be required for 1 v 1 type engagements anymore in the era of BVR, kinetic performance is still important to be able to fire modern BVRs and then be able to get out of the combat area through agressive manoveuring, while also needing kinetic performance to be able dodge modern sophisticated SAMs alongside interactive electronic jamming.

 

[muhammed45]

They have FA-18 and F-18EF, not F-18G Growler version which US would not give to anyone outside Anglo alliance. F-18EF has a RCS of 1 m2 so it will probably be tracked by NAJM-802/4 AESA at 300 KM.

They only have one FAB so if it comes to blows, South western IRGC command from Dezful and Shiraz will rubble this base with all the hornets inside it. 10 x Kheybar-4 from deep territory with their 80 x submunitions clustered PBVs and some 30 x Fattah HGVs will be enough to make sure that no one lands back there again.

True. Kuwaiti version is hornet not even super hornet. But at least F-18 hornet is already present in this region even if its inferior version to Growler.

 

[Immortals]

Any truth here or just fanboys being fanboys?

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Pakistan cannot export JF-17 to any state without Chinese approval. And China will not give that approval for export to Iran due to Western pressures.

If Pakistan were to somehow get approval for this then the West would sanction Pakistan into oblivion.

Pakistan cannot even complete their end of the gas pipeline due to western pressure for desperately needed energy imports and you think they will do it for a fighter jet deal?

 

[Ali_Baba]

Pakistan cannot export JF-17 to any state without Chinese approval. And China will not give that approval for export to Iran due to Western pressures.

If Pakistan were to somehow get approval for this then the West would sanction Pakistan into oblivion.

Pakistan cannot even complete their end of the gas pipeline due to western pressure for desperately needed energy imports and you think they will do it for a fighter jet deal?

Su35/30s or J10CEs are Irans only choice logically to compliment what they have now and what their local projects may yield.

 

[Immortals]

Su35/30s or J10CEs are Irans only choice logically to compliment what they have now and what their local project may yield.

Again China is not giving Iran any planes or allowing those that use their tech to export to Iran.

As for Russia, we been waiting for 10 years+ for the day that they approve a major arms deal for offensive arms.

 

[ToddE]

True. Kuwaiti version is hornet not even super hornet. But at least F-18 hornet is already present in this region even if its inferior version to Growler.

They do have EF version which is super hornet and its probably the most capable 4+ gen fighter on earth but then again in the bigger picture Kuwaitis can even park F-22 on their only FAB they will still be useless because of missile factor.

 

[muhammed45]

They do have EF version which is super hornet and its probably the most capable 4+ gen fighter on earth but then again in the bigger picture Kuwaitis can even park F-22 on their only FAB they will still be useless because of missile factor.

Thanks for the info.

Btw, The existence of electro magnetic pulse bomb in Iran was once approved by an IRGC related media, however, it got deleted immediately and became inaccessible. But i have no doubt it was confirmed that Iran has developed it. As we call it EMP and apparently Israel has also used it to defend itself against Iranian missiles.

It is a great asset to defend our sky against threats like EW assets of USAF.

 

[ToddE]

Again China is not giving Iran any planes or allowing those that use their tech to export to Iran.

J-10A/B was offered but Iranian pilots were more interested in larger ranged SU-35S and SU-30SM from Russia. Russians initially were reluctant to even put SU-35S on the table and instead were offering SU-27K which is SU-35S's original designation (older built airframe). Iran kept on pressing for SU-35S which was finally agreed during General Bagheri's visit to Moscow where he met with Shoigu and Putin in person. This time they refused to give R-37 and Khibiny ECM pods without which SU-35S is useless for Iran because it wont be able to replace F-14A/AM.

Unless the Chinese put out J-15/16 on market with AESA radars so powerful that can track fighters at 200+ KM and fire some thwarting ARH BVR weapon at 200 KM range, they have no plane that can be useful to Iran. Iran has zero aerial threat from Persian Gulf/North west because of their bases being juicy targets for IRGC-Aerospace force and we cant fight USAF/USN even if we have 250 SU-35S.

Our only actual aerial threat right now is that IAF can breach the Iraqi airspace from the banana republic of Jordan to launch an ALBM at south western Iran. For that we need long ranged, fast interceptor that can track a huge RCS F-15 at ~220-250 KM and launch thwarting BVRs at it to disrupt its ALBM launch zone approach.

Or we can provide and train PMU in Iraq to use HIMADs/SHORADS, something we could not do in Syria.

As for Russia, we been waiting for 10 years+ for the day that they approve a major arms deal for offensive arms.

Russians can even provide SU-35S to themselves, I posted a link before in which their own revealed production plan is merely of 12 airframes in 2025.

 

[ToddE]

Thanks for the info.

Btw, The existence of electro magnetic pulse bomb in Iran was once approved by an IRGC related media, however, it got deleted immediately and became inaccessible. But i have no doubt it was confirmed that Iran has developed it. As we call it EMP and apparently Israel has also used it to defend itself against Iranian missiles.

High altitude NN-EMP yes, it was in Mahreghnews, an entire article on IRGC planning warheads of SRBM/HIMADS for this purpose.

 

[Piet]

The JF17 is rather too short legged in comparison if they want to(or can) go down the Chinese route. Iran needs a high end fighter, and JF17 only makes sense once you have a high even fighter it can operate under.

Aircraft such as Gripen JAS 39E/F, JF-17 C Block 3, and also Tejas Mk-1A come to mind. All of these have decent AESA radar, carrying SOW with ranges equal to or more than 300km, combat range around 1 000km, give or take, and state of the art VLR AAM's.

Apart from Sweden, Thunder and Tejas both have the luxury of operating under cover of higher echelon combat a/c.

So, if and when, Iran ever receives SU-35 to for fill this role, Iran's 'Thunders' will have to do with what is available - especially when F-14 is retired.

By doing it by themselves.

Iran needs to decide which route it wants to go down (it may have done so already) and put in place a procurement plan for that.

This is something that the Iran cannot afford to vacillate on indefinitely.

but what we saw with Israel taking out a deep underground bunker with over 80 bunker buster bombs will not be lost of the leadership for sure, regardless of "the local theatrical politics".

Not wishing to sound trivial, but this is perhaps a 'reality check' that was long overdue.

If you have seen the recent videos of Su30s trying to dodge Patriot missiles, you realise that while kinetic performance may not be required for 1 v 1 type engagements anymore in the era of BVR, kinetic performance is still important to be able to fire modern BVRs and then be able to get out of the combat area through agressive manoveuring, while also needing kinetic performance to be able dodge modern sophisticated SAMs alongside interactive electronic jamming.

Agreed.

Piet

 

[ToddE]

Aircraft such as Gripen JAS 39E/F, JF-17 C Block 3, and also Tejas Mk-1A come to mind. All of these have decent AESA radar, carrying SOW with ranges equal to or more than 300km, combat range around 1 000km, give or take, and state of the art VLR AAM's.

Apart from Sweden, Thunder and Tejas both have the luxury of operating under cover of higher echelon combat a/c.

So, if and when, Iran ever receives SU-35 to for fill this role, Iran's 'Thunders' will have to do with what is available - especially when F-14 is retired.

- Too small and short ranged airframes with small radar for our terrain, cant reach battle zones in future iraqi airspace with energy carrying 6+ LR BVRs. We need tracking (not searching) range of 220-250 KM with 6 x LR-BVR for thwarting IAF over iraq, something to replace F-14 and only SU-35S armed with R-37 and Khibiny ECM fits the bill.

Probably the better option will always be Iran building IADS in Iraq and connect it with OTH's in Iran. Fighter-Fighter engagement is again you accepting the enemy terms. IADS is a game changer.

- Again dependence upon Russia for engines, China for avionics, spares, missiles etc. You completely neglected my "absolute indigenousization" post about MIG-29/31 saga above which you agreed with before.

 

[Piet]

High altitude NN-EMP yes, it was in Mahreghnews, an entire article on IRGC planning warheads of SRBM/HIMADS for this purpose.

Bad news all round. Setting off non-nuclear EMP generating devices, would be 'acceptable'.

Nuclear - EMP's would be crossing a line from which there is no return.

Who would then be next. Russia, in Ukraine, China over Taiwan in prelude to an invasion?

EMP is not a silver bullet to be sure, but the risks of mis-calculation are enormous.

Piet

 

[ToddE]

Bad news all round. Setting off non-nuclear EMP generating devices, would be 'acceptable'.

Nuclear - EMP's would be crossing a line from which there is no return.

Who would then be next. Russia, in Ukraine, China over Taiwan in prelude to an invasion?

EMP is not a silver bullet to be sure, but the risks of mis-calculation are enormous.

Piet

NN EMP is not nuclear so its acceptable. IRGC was building this device then the news "vanished" from the news agency they announced it in. They did same about HGV, first time IRGC said anything about HGV was in 2014 if people remember then news went silent for years until a plethora of Glide vehicles started showing up in tests and excersizes.